limaxophobiacq

This is definitely a solid mindstalker build but it as you noted kind of extreme but a toned-down version of an Assassin/Cipher (any Cipher class but soulblade/psion) using the same weapons but skipping on the min-maxed attributes is still going to hit like a truck as long as you use stealth for alpha-strikes and then get out of harms way with escape or smoke veil. For a 'face' a mindstalker doesn't usually have much use of Resolve (which is really only good for tanks) but Int and Per are both used in conversations and are very helpfull to a mindstalker. You could just go 10/10/14/18/18/8 for attributes and be fine. Whispers of Treason, Biting/Draining Whip, Hammering Thoughts, and Disintegrate are the only Cipher abilities you really need, plus ancestors memory if you want to take a priest with you and kill some megabosses. I played a build like this on Ydwin and she did pretty well even without the assassin bonus, you want Ring of the Marksman, Acina's Tricorn, Ajamuut's Stalking Cloak, and Slippers of the Assassin for sure, plus Kitchen Stove (with Thunderous Report) and the Red Hand as weapons. Might also pick up Arms Bearer for an extra weapon set to dual-wield hand-mortars.

I've played Fighter/Priest of Wael and its obviously super tanky, also while the weapon damage isn't that great casting Shining Beacon and Storm of Holy Fire with Tactical Barrage + Champions Boon gets you pretty respectable damage output for a tank. With blackjacket you could quickly swap to Magrans Favor + Sun and Moon in one set for up to +4 fire PL when you're blasting.

If you want to be the anything but a glass-cannon and deal damage over time Paladin/Wizard isn't a bad bet. You can even do DoT to yourself with Sacred Immolation. Steel Garrote/Blood Mage is considered optimal but other combinations are fine if you find Woedica and Steel Garrote disposition restrictions too annoying. Beyond whatever DoT wizard spells you want to cast key abilities are Spirit Shield, Llengraths Safguard, Lay on Hands, and Stoic Steel to be very hard to kill. Wizard are admittedly not as heavy on DoTs as druids are though. Bloodmage/Ancient is likely better of picking one of them and going single class .

Boeroer always the fashionista . I actually like the helm, it reminds me of the tiger-guy Russell Crowe fought in Gladiator so it fits the theme. The grey steel of Tuotilos isn't ideal but you can't have everything.

I've always dismissed Hold the Line (why do fighters, the tank class, get nothing with their extra engagement passive compared to Rogues and Barbarians?) so I kind of forget it exists, but it might have been worth it. The 4th engagement slot isn't bad but the 5th is superfluous. Also I wouldn't have known how to make this build without your guide making me realise Deep Wounds actually scales with Int. Given the +200% damage modifier with death-blows active, extra points of intelligence adding roughly +0.75% damage per point from the extended Deep Wounds duration ends up being almost as good as Might at +1% per point for weapon damage, in addition to everything else Int does.

I think if you were to switch weapon I'd consider going with an axe just for the bleeding cut modal with retaliation. With a fast low-damage weapon like Kapana Taga (even though it's enchantments are everything the build wants and would be insane if you could get them on an axe) you end up spending proportionally more of you time making weak shield attacks. I also don't want to over-invest in having to engage 3+ opponents to be effective since there's hard fights where that's just not a thing.

Difficulty: PotD. Solo: No. First of this is not a super optimized build, rather it's the result of me trying to build around a pretty mediocre weapon I find aesthetically appealing. The build is pretty effective at what it does but other weapon choices are almost certainly going to be more effective. The weapon in question is the Gladiators Sword (the notable traits of which are +1 Penetration, +5 Deflection & +10% damage when used with a shield), and the result is not all that surprisingly a sword-and-board build with retaliation. Second I ran this build on a hired adventurer so it doesn't include blessing or pet bonuses (best pet would probably be Blinky for the +5 melee accuracy). Race: Hill Dwarf Culture: Old Vailia Class: Devoted/Trickster Fighter/Trickster is a tried-and-true combo for a good tank that can dish out some decent weapon damage, and since we're building around a specific weapon which we're comboing with a shield that can also use the devoted bonus (Tuotilo's Palm), devoted seems a sensible choice for our fighter subclass. The rogue Riposte ability lets us use our defense for offense, and the multiplicative damage boost from Deep Wounds works to make up for the lack of lashes on our weapons. Attributes: I went with a very conservative attribute spread (12/10/10/17/19/10). Int and Per are the most important attributes by a decent margin, Dex hurts a lot to dump even when you're doing a lot of retaliations, and dumping Might or Con tanks our fortitude defense which is already our lowest. You could dump Con for Might but with how many weapon damage bonuses the build has it wouldn't be very significant. Core Equipment: -Gladiators Sword: Duh. -Tuotilo's Palm: With Monastic Unarmed Training + Two Weapon Style and the fact that it benefits from the devoted bonus, this shield offers a pretty ok damage boost (with the attack speed increase it's about +30% DPS compared to a normal small-shield despite the low base damage) while also offering a 20% chance of a mini-riposte that only uses the shield. -Champions Helm: 10% chance for a main-hand riposte and a respectable boost to action speed and weapon damage when the character tanking multiple opponents. -Devil of Caroc Breastplate: +2 class resources is fantastic for any martial multiclass and the -10% recovery combined with Armored Grace means we're still quite fast despite being medium armor. -Entonia Signet Ring: +2 defenses per engagement, a no brainer for a high-engagement tank. Party support: I made this build with a priest using DotF in the party, a paladin aura would do but obviously not as good. Beside a party-wide accuracy buff this build doesn't need any other help to be effective. You could have a priest casting Champions Boon on the gladiator but that's usually not going to be the best use of your priests valuable time. Skills: History for Giftbearer's Cloth to help our non-deflection defenses. Party Synergies: Thanks to it's very high reflex defense (180+) and the abilty to apply distracted (-5 perception = -10 reflex) to anyone it engages, the build works well with any party-unfriendly reflex-save AoEs which is a nice bonus from not going Unbroken. If your friendly casters have very high accuracy you could dump a passive or two to throw in Adept Evasion or even Snakes Reflexes for a complete overkill reflex defense. Early Game: Just punch things, early game Monastic Unarmed Training with the devoted bonus plus Crippling Strike is quite effective. Abilities: 1 Disciplined Barrage | Crippling Strike 2 Monastic Unarmed Training 3 Knock Down 4 Fighter Stances* | Two Weapon Style 5 Confident Aim 6 Dirty Fighting 7 Tactical Barrage | Arterial Strike 8 Riposte 9 Mule Kick 10 Vigorous Defense | Weapon and Shield Style 11 Persistent Distraction 12 Weapon Specialization 13 Unbending | Deep Wounds 14 Superior Deflection 15 Armored Grace 16 Refreshing Defense | Bears Fortitude 17 Hold the Line 18 Mob Stance 19 Unbreakable** | Deathblows 20 Unbending Shield *Warrior stance early game until your priest gets Devotions, then use Defender Stance for the engagements untill you have room to grab Hold the Line + Mob Stance (the later isn't worth without the former getting you to 3 engagements). **I know people don't like getting knocked down but given that it's effectively 2.5x the HP of Tough and people take Tough I don't think that's rational. Helm: Champions Helm (3% speed & damage per engagment, 10% riposte) Cloak: The Giftbearer's Cloth (+14 Will/Fort/Ref) Amulet: Ciphers Shackle (+1 Con, Resistance to Dex) Gloves: Greater Deflection +7 Armor: Devil of Caroc Breastlplate (+2 Class resources, -10% recovery, Resistance to Int) Boots: Boots of Stone (+1 Dex, +1 Res, Resistance to Might) Belt: Eoten Constitution (+3 Con) Ring 1: Entonia Signet Ring (+2 defenses per engagement) Ring 2: Chameleons Touch (+1 Dex, +1 Might) Weapon Set 1: Gladiators Sword + Tuotilo's Palm Weapon Set 2: Fist + Tuotilo's Palm Weapon Set 3: Pistol/Blunderbuss + Tuotilo's Palm Buffs: Tactical Barrage, Refreshing Defense, Displaced Image, Unbending Shield, DotF Attributes (base, gear, buffs) Mig: 12 +1 +4 = 17 Con: 10 +4 +0 = 14 Dex: 10 +2 +0 = 12 Per: 17 +0 +5 = 22 Int: 19 +0 +5 = 24 Res: 10 +1 +5 = 16 Deflection: 22 +57 (level) +4 (Superior Deflection) +20 (Refreshing Defense) +10 (Displaced Image) +5 (Scrim) +7 (Bracers) +16 (Shield) +6 (Resolve) = 147+2*(Engaging), or 167 with Mirror Image Fort: 17 +57 (level) +14 (Str) +8 (Con) +20 (Refreshing Defense) +10 (Bears Fortitude) +14 (Cloak) = 140+2*(Engaging) Ref: 25 +57 (level) +20 (Refreshing Defense) +4 (Dex) +24 (Per) +14 (Cloak) +20 (Displaced Image) +16 (Shield) = 180+2*(Engaging) Will: 17 +57 (level) +20 (Refreshing Defense) +28 (Int) +12 (Res) +14 (Cloak) = 148+2*(Engaging) Sword Accuracy: 20 (base) +57 (level) +15 (Legendary Weapon) +12 (Perception) +10 (Devotions) = 114 (65% Graze to Hit, 10% Hit to Crit) Shield Accuracy: 20 (base) +57 (level) +14 (Monastic) +12 (Perception) +5 (Precision Striker) +10 (Devotions) = 118 (65% Graze to Hit, 10% Hit to Crit) Sword Damage: 13-19 (base) +60% (Legendary) +21% (17 Str) +10% (Weapon Specialization) +10% (Scrim) +55% (Sneak Attack) +50% (Deathblows) x1.37 (Deep Wounds) = ~54-80 Shield Damage: 8-10 (base) +50% (Monastic) +21% (17 Str) +10% (Weapon Specialization) +55% (Sneak Attack) +50% (Deathblows) x1.37 (Deep Wounds) = ~31-39 Penetration: Sword 13/Shield 13 Edit: Added Hold the Line + Mob Stance.

Ydwin as a gunslinging mindstalker more or less like this build minus the assassin bonus plus a bit of survivability. With deathblows/soul whip/deep wounds for weapon damage and borked might scaling on disintegrate her low might doesn't really matter that much. It's not much of a build really but single class priest of Rymrgand is just so good and Vatnir actually has good stats for a backline blaster/support caster I can't really see him going anything but single class priest. Has anyone had success with him as Celebrant or Zealot?

I know fractions are actually calculated for damage & health, but does having say 10.5 or 10.75 PEN make any difference from having 10 PEN? Also for 'normal' damage over time effects that tick every 3 seconds (ApplyOnTick), does increased duration have an additional effect if it falls between 2 potential ticks, i.e. is there any difference in the damage you'll do between an 18.1, 19.5, or 20.9 second duration for a damage over time like Shining Beacon or Meteor Swarm that hits every 3 seconds? Or do you want to try to hit just over a number of seconds divisible by 3 if you're trying to min-max for a specific damage-over-time effect?

Yeah. There's nothing wrong with having 'some things are to big for you to affect' be a thing in the game but having that be the main story of a game which is about player interaction just feels bad. Compare say Disco Elysium, where you play a character vastly less powerful/influential in his setting than the watcher, where there's on one hand a story about a murder you're solving, and on the other a story about politics and the seemingly inevitable doom of the setting through natural disaster. But unlike Deadfire the game focuses on the former where you can actually do something, and the small victory you get in the end actually feels satisfying even though the world is still pretty much screwed.

I literally just said it would be hard or impossible to actually get revenge so I don't see why you bring that up as a counterpoint. The point isn't that I wanted to be able to get revenge on Eothas, it's that the game barely recognises that I'd feel like i want to (while at the same time realising its probably not going to happen). Plenty people are angry at things much larger and powerful then they are (governments, corporations etc.) without expecting to be able to do much of anything about it. I just want the option to spit in his face and call him an idiot.

I like a lot of things about deadfire. I like the mechanics, I like most of the companions, I like the faction system, and I really like the expansions. But I've still played it less than half the time I've played PoE1 because every time I think about it the main quest and the limits of main-character responses annoy me so much. It's not that I expect to be able to stop Eothas (though the fact that sending Wael in his titan against him does literally nothing is kind of lame), but game starts out with Eothas murdering you and destroying your home and there's no real option to express that you hate him for it and want vengeance as your main motivation (even if you realise true vengeance is going to be hard or impossible to achieve). Every conversation with Eothas is this big-picture discussion about the wheel and the gods vs mortals when my MC wouldn't care if Eothas is right or wrong in the grand scheme of things, they'd want Eothas to fail and suffer because Eothas made them suffer, and the game barely recognises that this is a thing a person might feel when it's the most human reaction I can imagine from someone in the watchers position.

So a brute Berserker/Devoted can stack some serious crit conversion and Frenzy + Disciplined Strikes (47.5 % with weapons and carnage if I understand correctly) plus 25% weapon crit damage from Devoted, but what are the best weapons to utilise it? Axes seem good for +20% crit damage and Slayers Claw (for interrupts with frenzy), also you're dual-wielding so you can grab monastic unarmed training for a crushing backup weapon that's at least decent. But OTOH dual-wield doesn't play great with Mule Kick and Clear Out being Primary attacks. Voidwheel and Karabörü play nicer with fighter abilities. What other weapons would be good with this build?

The golden dragon back in PoE 1 was a thing of beauty that I really enjoyed playing (though with a warhammer instead of a sabre). I'm not as active here as I was back then and my hours in Deadfire are a fraction of my time in PoE 1 but without his many (many) posts on the subject I probably would have dismissed WoTEP as not worth it after the fix/nerf and never played my greatsword devoted/priest-of-wael that a had a lot of fun with.

Could note that the templar build is not possible without modding as the dispositions of Wael and Goldpact conflict. I wish the unmodded game would just let us take the penalties instead of blocking conflicting priest/paladin combinations completely.

Kitchen Stove with Thunderous Report won't be as crazy on Ydwin as it would be on say an Assassin/Ascendant, but it's still amazing opener for any Mindstalker.

From your other thread the problem seems to be the digsite specifically which is an unusually hard fight this early in the game and you don't have a full party. IMO stick with veteran but hire an adventurer to round out your party for this fight, it's what I did in PoE1 with the damn temple.

Thanks for the suggestions. Gonna drop the ancient memory + Weapon Specialization, throw in Ben Fidel's Neck and maybe change from Devoted to Unbroken to focus a bit more on the tanking. Would it be reasonable to drop Called to His Bidding to get in Her Tears Fell or is the lower starting phrases too much?

I'm kinda into the whole Huana aesthetic (using kapana taga + contenders armor + champions helm) and want to make another try at a war caller. I was thinking Devoted/Skald to combo the devoted +2 Pen with the +5 Accuracy of clubs to deal with PotD defences, and the option of using the club modal + 'Thick Grew Their Tongues' and 'At the Sound of His Voice' to CC and interrupt (so high int and perception). I think I should pick up 'Thrice Was She Wronged' too for when I want to focus damage and 'Called to His BIdding' for the max pharases if nothing else. One thing is I feel like I might be spreading myself a little thin, I'm kinda going for tanking + CC + weapon damage + invocation damage + party support from chants all on one character. My planned abilities look like this at the moment: 1 Knock Down | Blessed was Wengridh + Thrice Was She Wronged 2 Disciplined Barrage 3 At the Sight of Their Comrades 4 Weapon and Shield Style | At the Sound of His Voice 5 Fighter Stances 6 Determination 7 Tactical Barrage | Her Revenge Swept Across the Land 8 Mule Kick 9 Ancient Memory 10 Vigorous Defense | ...And Their Fear Followed Them 11 Weapon Specialization 12 The Silver Knights 13 Armored Grace | Thick Grew Their Tongues 14 Superior Deflection 15 Mob Stance 16 Clear Out | They Shielded Their Eyes 17 Refreshing Defense 18 Unbending 19 Unbreakable | Called to his Bidding 20 Unbending Shield I'd like to get in more resistance chants (One Dozen Stood/Seven Men) and Aefyllath in since they can come in pretty handy but I'm unsure what to drop. I also feel like I might run out of discipline pretty fast if I use all my fighter abilities but all of them feel like they have their place.

Do you at least get the bonus from both? 100 health and + defenses from Unbreakable plus Religion*10 health heal from Reneval?

So if I go devoted with Twin Eeels as my second set against bosses were Whispers is suboptimal, will the game burn both Reneval and Unbreakable on the first knockout or will it save one so I can get revived twice?

I'm importing an old poe1 priest of Wael to deadfire and wondering what multiclasses might be good? My own best plan so far is fighter with the whispers of the endless paths for counter attacks with arcane veil, I could go Tactical Barrage into arcane veil + champions boon to enable mob stance (I assume it triggers of counter-attacks?) to minimize recovery. I've seen the Umezawa build (and I don't doubt its powerfull) but micro-intense glass cannons are not really my forte. Are there other classes that make for a good multi (PotD, not solo)?

If there were only 4 sub-classes for every class it would be 11*10/2 possible ways to pick 2 classes, times 5*5 possible sub-classes (including no sub class) per combination for 1375 combinations, plus 55 single-classes for 1430 classes, but given that there's a few classes with more than 4 subclasses it may be something closer to 2000.

Is 'their companion brawed the horde alone' worth picking up for a War Caller (the interrupt on crit seems like it would combo well with hit-to-crit from Disciplined Strikes and +4 Pen with Devoted sounds cool) or is it a waste with the extra phrase cost? With soft-winds-of-death and AoE weapon attacks it seems like it could do a lot of interrupts.

Maybe I should just go skald with Whispers of the Endless Paths then? Seems like it would do decent damage and might generate some extra phrases with the counter-attacks, and I'd get to make clumps of enemies go splat with Clear-Out multiple-aoe stacking (if I understand correctly with WotEP it works kind of like how Heart of Fury worked in PoE1 spawning multiple AoE attacks).