Darji

I am sorry for bringing this up. And in the end we will see how all this turns out in the game after all. so yeah lets end this. If someone want to discuss more of it I am perfectly fine with writing PMs.

You always have to think about when these books were first released and written. They broke tons of taboos and were highly controversial back in their time. If they handle topics like pedophilia they would be even today still controversial depending how and what its written in these books. These books became classics because of the break of morals and standards their time. Many of them also highly political controversial as well. They seems harmless now but they certainly were not back then.

I live in Germany and every classic literature we have read back in school and even outside has topics and theme of orgies, cults , sexual violence, murder, pedophilia, racism, schizophrenia, religion, Satan, and so on. Every time we talk about these authors we end up in such theme and topics. Maybe I should have stated that before. I do not consider something like Harry potter as classic. I was talking about the before 1900 literature for example.

So you want to ignore issues that are real in this world just because they are uncomfortable for you? No one is saying to make it sensational but make it uncomfortable do it that people actually will think about maybe even start a discussion about it. Media is a powerful instrument to get people attention to very heavy issues that also happen to in real life. And that you know one of my friends was sexually assaulted by his father as a child. t is nothing to brag about it and it is nothing to have fun about. But making it a taboo is the absolute wrong way to handle such things. Even people in therapy are encouraged to talk about their experience rather than choke it down and act like nothing has happened.

No one said you are the one who does this or have a choice to do it. It is more about someone like Jack the ripper or some other organisation or cult who also does this sort of stuff. Just because you do not like it does not mean it can't be a topic in games. Games ae not all about having fun and people need to understand this. Just like Movies are not about having fun all the time. you dont understand ... what i said was that if developers start to dig into raping others in their games but on the other hand tell us something about politicaly correct BS it all goes down like this. There are sick perverts working on something and they tell you its uncool to "exclude" these type of persons because they are a minority (homo romances etc.) and all that nonsense. So in the end where do we stop promoting these kind of things that are very real. There is a difference in a RPG where you slaughter on mass and RAPE others. If you dont get that you have to visit your doctor! Adn rape was never a topic in gaming since a few mentaly retarded "guys" thought it is "ok" to get the message out.... To mature, media needs needs constantly to be controversial and needs to break these taboos. Almost every classic piece of literature does this. Be it when it was released or even today. Rape, Incest murder in strange ways, pedophilia and so on. To give you an example. What if the victim or victims were men? This would be highly controversial and very interesting to explore in the end. Will they do it. I doubt it but it would be really interesting to explore these taboos. And more respect and power to Obsidian. As for the "political correct bull****" One does not exclude the other. It maybe would be if it was comical and bioware like acted out. But if its well written and well presented it would be a way to actually get more reception and people would talk about it. Same with Racism. Political correctness does not mean these topic should not be explored or integrated.

That is how dungeon master do it in D&D campaign. In terms of performance and if she gets pregnant or not^^ we were gonna make a dismissive reply, but 'pon reflection it is likely that there is at least a couple o' dms that has done such. as an aside, Gromnir hates the forgotten realms. the one time we dm'd a "forgotten realms" campaign, we changed things a bit. for instance, elminster were the seeming know-it-all proprietor o' the Prancing Pony-- the best little whore house in waterdeep. The Sage in our campaign were a grossly corpulent eunuch with a feigned drug habit, and waterdeep were a medium-sized village that were making for an ideal starting point for new adventurers. the campaign actual lasted a couple years. in any event, a brothel did figure prominent in a Gromnir campaign, but we did as a joke. yes, we did go low-brow on occasion with the jokes. after all, it were a bit o' revenge on our group as we didn't wanna do forgotten realms. no doubt one can imagine some crude references to the lack of wood in elminster's staff, etc. even so, we sure as heck didn't have d20 tables organized for the traditional business encounters at the Pony. HA! Good Fun! The most prominent I have seen is from a show called Rollplay which airs normally weekly on Twitch with 3-6K people watching it each week. t is really great D&D and every time someone tries to have sex he has first roll a charisma check for success and if success I think 2 Con checks for performance and fertility.^^ Otherwise this show is fantastic and if you have time go watch it on YouTube just search for rollplay^^

No one said you are the one who does this or have a choice to do it. It is more about someone like Jack the ripper or some other organisation or cult who also does this sort of stuff. Just because you do not like it does not mean it can't be a topic in games. Games ae not all about having fun and people need to understand this. Just like Movies are not about having fun all the time.

Sexual violence and assault cold be a topic or theme in the game which would justify the explicit sexual content mention. This would be a really interesting and bold way to go to be honest. Maybe in some longer sidequest in course of the game or so.

To be fair, there are some innovations on the MMO market going on, like sandbox MMOs (Arche Age), the adaption of action combat mechanics (TERA, Wildstar), player housing (RIFT, Wildstar) and innovative quest design (The Secret World). Also, there's currently such a big shift to f2p going on, that there's pretty good mmos available f2p now. RIFT is probably the best of those. It basicly does everything that WoW does, but with added world events (RIFT is actually the first MMO that really nailed that zonewide-event mechanics after the terrible failure that was warhammer online) and pretty addictive housing (minecraft anyone? ). I can also see Arche Age getting pretty successful with the sandbox playstyle. It just depends on the korean developers to make the right decisions for the western market. All those games however do not change the actual game. All are just quest grinding games. I wonder what Everquest next will do in this regard. That could be the savior of this genre^^ However since FFXI i really miss story heavy and especially really good stories in MMOS. FFXI maybe even had the best FF story ever created and while FFXIV story is good in the end it seems really shallow in the end. I really hope Expansions will change that a bit.

That is how dungeon master do it in D&D campaign. In terms of performance and if she gets pregnant or not^^

thursday

Then there should be honestly no sex scenes. But sexually explicit content can be way more than that so will we see.

Why not? The sex scenes in the Witcher 2 were excellent. Bioware's scenes are just bad just like many other games dd it not well but Witcher 2 did an excellent job with their scenes. As for this game. If there is romance there should be sex. I do not expect animations but maybe talking or hinting at it during their dialogues. Baldur's Gate for example did a pretty good job in this regard and all their romance stuff was mostly very very good.

That is not quite right. First of all I want to see progression. And video material shows this the best. Honestly and sadly I do not really care about Obsidians updates because I just do not want to read a lot of stuff. I look at the pictures and designs. And say yeah great. And move on. sometimes with classes explanation for example I will ready the stuff but that's it. With Divinity I actually watch their videos even pause them to see what has changed and how. I get really exciting and my friends too since I link these videos and tell them about it. Result was 5 people bought the game on steam. Success. Obsidian I can not show the stuff to them because they do not care much right now. With no video. There is no real excitement here. As for the press thing: I am not really jealous I am disappointed because I have seen kickstarter projects differently than publisher games and I hoped about more transparency. I also think it is a huge mistake not only to show it to the press since written media on the internet is either dead or dying. And that it was just a really bad marketing move for a game no one besides backers and hardcore fans do not even know exist because there is no material. no one reads the RPS previews. But yeah let us conclude with saying. I am disappointed by their handling and that I most likely will not back anything again from obsidian but rather buy it at launch.

Wait wait wait WAIT! Why are we having this discussion now again...? Obsidian are controlling their media! And they are honest about it as well! You could even translate what they are saying directly to "We are controlling our media, and this is what we want to do with it". And then telling them "No, you're not honest enough!"... I.. don't know how to end this post Control you media does not mean release nothing but release it in your own terms. Be honest about it and make people understand that everything will change through the way. Because if you do not and people are actually interested in a game something can leak out. Just like the newest Bloodborne leak trailer. All the people got was a CG trailer. The press got a 30 minute demo and then someone released a 1+ year old trailer on the internet which not only looked way worse than the E3 demo but also showed a lot of monsters, weapons, moves and so on. @Sensuki No you do not. Just seek out a place with no spoilers and capture 5 minutes and do commentary over it about what is work in progress what is not done yet and done. This is a pretty lame reason to be honest. Again with the hypocrisy! Obsidian are: A) Controlling their media B) Releasing it on their terms C) Honest about it But you: A) Want control B) Released footage on your terms C) And you're kind of honest about it No I want progression. Not on my terms but just show me something. I made an example what they could have done. If I were in charge I would do following: Capture actual footage of someone doing a quest line. Mostly Sidequest Explain the system and put some battle encounter it it. During these mostly cut footage because of length I would explain the state of the development the state of Mechanics, UI maybe skills. Tactical opportunities How much is already in how much still needs to be done. This would make a like 10-15 minute video max. Which is still 15 minutes less than the press demo. And to make it fair. Show this 10-15 minute video the press first. Release it a few days later to backers or everyone . Everyone would be best of course. The rest of the 15 minutes for the press event just show slides do your pitching stuff or whatever you do in those things. There is no need to show us that.

Are saying that they didn't think that people that have beta access don't notice that game don't at least yet look like that (but it isn't that far away from it either)? I think that you exaggerate bit too much their desire to lie for their backers. I can say that inXile has been quite transparent with their production with Wasteland 2, even though I would in some cases hoped more information from them and more regular updates. Yeah I totally agree. It was not perfect by far but it was much better than what Obsidian does. Perfect example how you should do it is Larian and without even hearing about their next game I will pitch because they were so transparent and so honest about this game and progress that it was a joy to watch all these 60+ videos.

Wait wait wait WAIT! Why are we having this discussion now again...? Obsidian are controlling their media! And they are honest about it as well! You could even translate what they are saying directly to "We are controlling our media, and this is what we want to do with it". And then telling them "No, you're not honest enough!"... I.. don't know how to end this post Control you media does not mean release nothing but release it in your own terms. Be honest about it and make people understand that everything will change through the way. Because if you do not and people are actually interested in a game something can leak out. Just like the newest Bloodborne leak trailer. All the people got was a CG trailer. The press got a 30 minute demo and then someone released a 1+ year old trailer on the internet which not only looked way worse than the E3 demo but also showed a lot of monsters, weapons, moves and so on. @Sensuki No you do not. Just seek out a place with no spoilers and capture 5 minutes and do commentary over it about what is work in progress what is not done yet and done. This is a pretty lame reason to be honest.

Here easy solution. Do not lie. Show honesty show real stuff. Look I will not defend the thing they did I will just say that their actual and long gameplay videos were excellent and showed a steady progress and change which every game goes through. Yes this was a stupid move and no one wants Obsidian to do it like that.

I know this screen And they explained it and apologized for not naming it right right away because people were upset. Again controll your media. be honest and the most honest you can be is during actual progress videos. You can not fake these videos if you you want to try. And I was talking about the videos not the screens or especially this screen.

It was presented the first time at VGX. Same story then. Nice trailer. And no follow-up, because not a soul who gets paid to write for games knows the first thing about programming, design, etc. So the same question again - how is anyone actually served by showing a game at e3. That the public won't see anything from. That will generate previews no one reads, and at least not remember past a week. For a game no editor of any major games-media site will spend any space on their pages for. It's like you say indirectly - a closed showing probably achieves nothing. And unless the video they're showing off isn't stunning, why would anyone outside of the inner circle care? Either way, it's just not going to help sell the game. oh I totally agree with that. Closed E3 stuff pointless. I was really upset about Bloodborne only getting a CG trailer for the fans while the press again got 30 minutes of gameplay. Same with MGSV even though Kojima teased gameplay on twitter and on his weekly show. And we got like 30 seconds of ofscreen during some interview. To hide only makes people and fans upset and what happens then? Just like with Bloodborne someone leaked a very old trailer, which was nowhere near the level people have seen it behind closed doors. And now this counts as first gameplay footage instead of the real deal. Presenting Media is a very important job in this industry. Either you do it or some controlled form or other people will leak it and then your messages can not be controlled anymore which could be really really bad. With Kickstarter doing closed presentations is the worst thing you could do in my opinion. To hide it for fans is a really dumb decision.

It is called work in Progress and they are always clear about this. That is why it is called work in progress..... Nothing of it was fake.

source And as I said in that post as well, this isn't representative of all of the press, but it gives us some minor insight on what goes on in their heads as well, apart from the obvious "Journalists are interested in first-hand coverage". When Thursday hits we're going to be like vultures on the internet finding information and news ourselves just for us to be "I found it!". Much like Sensuki has been posting tweets, Something Awful posts etc. etc. or how the RPGCodex is posting up all the updates on their news page as well as different Codexers posting the Update in the giant Pillars of Eternity thread (it hasn't always been Infinitron), or how some were chasing down Obsidian developer posts before "Devtracker" (don't know if Devtracker always existed, but in my perspective it suddenly appeared out of nowhere). People like to be "first", and the whole non-informative "I WAS FIRST DERP!!!" phenomena on popular YouTube videos, articles and whatever is also part of this. Being "first" is always better in this regard. And the first journalist that gets his/her article out there will forever in history have been the "first". It might not be the best article, but it will be first. The point: We're not going to be very different from the press when the news hit. So the Gamespot press is whining because they will not get some small hits? Oh how sad the world for these people is..... It is not about being first if you are in this because you want to be first than you should rethink the whole Kickstarter thing. It is about inclusion. Seeing how a game progresses, how it evolves beyond the stuff we normally see. That is the most exciting thing. To see a constant and maybe monthly progression. The things that have changed, why they have changed All this is really exciting. Hell maybe even do small video updates with the game running of screen in the background or while showing the new aspects etc. All of this would be more exciting than written press previews. Another great example is Brain Fargo and Wasteland 2 which was build from the scratch but up until now had several video updates and you could see how the game evolved and got better and better. And with a release of an alpha or beta and weekly or monthly updates you do not even need to cover it ass much because fans will play this over and over again. Explain the differences and how they experience it on YouTube Twitch etc. That is what Kickstarter is about for most people. If they just want to play the game they rather could back it and done or buy it when it comes out. There is a reason why Star Citizen still gets so much money founded. Because they show things, they let people even play very very early alpha stuff like their modules which was a mess when it was released. And the dog-fighting module still is but it is exciting to see such a level of progression which is sadly not common with the normal games industry. A Audi Visual media needs Audi Visual content as soon as possible. That is at least my stance on the whole issue.

That game generated a huge load of fuzz during this years E3. Why? Because it was presented and shown to the public. Even the Press does not really know how it or even if it works. That is why these people presented it behind closed doors.. However they also made people outside these presentations very curious about the game. This is still a very audio visual industry and trailer like that are great for the public. No visual media at all however is really really bad and no one will care about previews later this week except maybe backers. But even I who is really excited about this game does not care about words written by some journalist I do not know or care for.

I have to admit I find the decision to not show stuff to backers to be questionable at best. Even when I google it I can't find any clear coverage of the E3 demo, as if backers aren't allowed to see it or anything related to it at all. I am aware Obsidian was concerned about spoilers, but any sort of preview for the backers would have been good. EDIT: I don't know if everyone has seen BAdler's response, so I wanted to post it again so everyone could see the reasoning behind the choice not to show it to backers. You may not agree with it, but it is what it is: "Since this has grown into a contentious point, I wanted to address it. We will not be showing a video of the demo. The footage has quite a few spoilers in it and it isn't ready to show to the backers yet. We want to show you guys something much more polished and we aim to do that sometime between now and our backer beta. Just so you guys are aware, it will likely be closer to the backer beta. When we show you things, we want it to be the real deal - no hacked together footage or faked content. I can remember seeing the gameplay video for Shadowrun Returns and being hyped up over all of the cool stuff I was seeing... only to be let down when a lot of that stuff never made it into the final game. I want to make sure that from this point on, if we are showing something to you guys it is representative of how it will be in the game. To do that means we have to focus a large amount of polish on a very specific area we want to show. This ends up hurting other areas in the game because they will tend to get less polish overall. We did have to do this for the E3 demo, but because we were showing off a few key areas, it is work we had to do anyways. Since we will show you something off of the critical path, it means we need to be much more careful over what get shown. When we get more information about showing gameplay you will hear about it from us first. No need to speculate. That said, I know that some of you are disappointed that we are showing gameplay to the press first. While you may not agree with our reasons for doing it, please know that we are showing to the press in this manner because we feel it is the best for the game. I will try to explain those reasons in more detail in the next update. I know we sound like a bit of a broken record, but we truly do appreciate the support you guys have given us - in helping to fund the game and in giving us feedback. Thanks for everything." - BAdler What does this even mean? We are basically founders and backers. We are not the public. We are the people who are highly invested in the game. The relationship between Obsidian and backers should be a bit different then the normal public. Again make it a Backers only video if you are that concerned about it. Backers understand the difference between Alpha, Beta and full retail release version. Many people who backed various games have seen unfinished stuff and they were totally fine with it. Hell even praised people for A showing stuff

I will do that as soon they show video material. Because my friends and many other people just do not care about written previews or some non saying screens.