Darji

But this had no impact at all. Yeah it was fine back then when it was all about fun. But things have changed and you can not simply go out and kill children with a gatling gun without any way of consequences. Same with the other thing it was a fun thing to do but that is not enough anymore. Games have grown up.

I disagree. They aren't mutually exclusive things and in my experience streamers are far more pandering than youtube people (except maybe whats his face who is worthless for the purposes of this conversation anyway). You can always run a forum, reply to viewers in comments, and so on with Youtube. Twitch is where it gets stupidly boring because you can't edit out that uninteresting busy work clip, or compensate for that internet bug you just had that caused your stream to crash. Meanwhile it isn't like any of this is a means to money or fame. For every TotalBuiscit there is a million or more people you have never heard of who have no viewership to speak of. These people are professional entertainer and so is their equipment and their presentation. You will not see much busy work in their streams. Maybe 2 minutes when they start a new game but that's it. And they actually make a living out of this. MAnvsGame as annoying he maybe be made a bit over 100k last year. And the reason for that is that he has build a community which pays tons of money each month to support him but also let them able to use the chat function during his streams. Dansgaming is in the same category even though he has to stream a bit more than ManvsGame for his revenue. Of course all of this is nothing against PewDiePie from YouTube. He plays really random **** but I think he has the most subscribers on YouTube. Over 27 million subscribers and with his short 15-20 minute videos he made 4 million Pounds in 2013 which is really insane. And honestly I do not know why. He was also the guy who made Flappy bird to what it became in the end. I think PewDiePie also got South Park 1 or 2 weeks earlier from Obsidian to play the beginning of the game. Which was a perfect fit of course. To be famous or to get many view you need to have personality on YouTube as well as twitch. There are a lot of people with 0-5 viewers streaming games. You need to have something special so people will watch your stuff instead other.

You watch these because of the personalities. Not really because of the games. If you want to watch the game only you could watch a random non commentary playthough but that is not what people after. But yeah I agree Youtubers are a bit boring Live streamers on the other hand are very addicting because they also build a huge community and the streamer interacts with these people a lot.

One I have forgotten is Tornis. He play really a lot of really complex and hardcore games. His Divinity: Original sins beta stream had like 800-1000 viewers if I remember correctly. He is not a professional streamer since he can not make a living yet but he also often promotes pretty unknown indy games with a lot of RPG aspects as well. And ItmeJP is great as well yeah. HE has the best or most famous D&D show on the net. If you like D&D check it out its called Rollplay on Youtube.

Twitch streamer do RPGs really really well like Dansgaming who has at peaks 10k viewers for special stuff and 3k average on each day. HE also has a YouTube channel of course. If a game is great people with a lot of viewers will play it no matter what since they need a lot of content each day. Twitch however would be a much better fit for Obsidian. Like a Live Demo stream etc. And yes Osvir: I am saying written previews and even reviews will fade away. They are being replaced by video content, shows and other visual media opportunities. like video interviews.

I think you misunderstand something. I never said written article are going away. But these written article will focusing more on social commentary and other issues in this industry. I was talking about previews which we will see in tomorrow. These will more and more fade away. And yes YouTube people even get early betas of Games. Especially Strategy ones to name a genre which is pretty great in this regard. Also I never said to give them beta code but maybe be more open about the actual reception of the public. And maybe consider that these press previews are not really effective anymore. The gaming press already changes because they have to. And again you can see that on how much actual live and video content these sites already have.

Did you read this article Darji? EDIT: It's a great article don't get me wrong. I'm just wondering. I have overflown it. It focuses on greenlight and indy games of course but we already see a shift with AAA publishers like SE who now often give games out to YouTubers to play them before anyone else. Even before official press reviews hit etc. Also I think we agree that this project is not a big AAA project but rather more big indy like in terms of budget etc.

Just fitting for this thing Gamasutra actually posted a pretty in deep article in how Youtube is killing the traditional Games press with facts , statistics and so on. Everyone who still believes that the traditional gaming press is not dying should read this. And if you one of these people you should be really afraid of your job. There will always be articles but soon game previews or reviews in written form could totally vanish from these sites. Also If someone from Obsidian reads this. Maybe it is better to take this stuff in consideration the next time. http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/219122/Is_YouTube_killing_the_traditional_games_press.php

In a game there is a huge difference between highlighting the horrors of rape during war and giving your character the ability to rape people because "rape is realistic". Both can be demonstrated differently and only the former would make most people feel uncomfortable This is out of the question. The former will never happen. However I can not believe that the later done right will people not uncomfortable. Of course not everyone but the ones who actually identify with characters and their stories during a game. When these situations occur even in movies it is not about the victim but rather a symbol how bad or terrible the antagonist is. But what if you go the different route and focus on the victim and his struggle and not about the crime itself. Done right could this be very powerful.

Yes one can but that doesn't automatically dismiss his observation and opinion (and correct me if I'm wrong) that sexual violence is often used as a shortcut to convey strong emotions to an audience. I would be inclined to agree. I would not say, however, that it should be off limits. Just that it's inclusion ought to be thought out and measured in the context of the story that is being told. Like most here, it seems, I am not into sexual content designed simply to titillate. If that is the goal then I think it will nearly always come across as awkward. Fortunately that won't be an issue here. agreed luckily that won't be the case unless this actually a 3 million dollar backed pron game. Sexual content could be used to strike terror into the player. Having a female lead captured and violated by tentacle monstrosities only to return later to ambush the player as a zombie oozing with strange goo from every orifice of her body and controlled by parasites. Why only female? That said I rather want to see not the actual crime so we can label someone as bad but rather how someone who has to deal with the consequences and the struggle that occur with such a crime. Again make it meaningful make people understand and make them feel uncomfortable.

I disagree, because rape gets used in fiction so much as a quick, cheap, easy stab at drama or plot point that it's lost all meaning. Overuse and casual use makes it less shocking, not more. Which is bad, because in real life rape is traumatizing. It's emotionally devastating to the victims, and often creates post-traumatic stress, trauma triggers, emotional scars, etc. Not for nothing many people and cultures view it as "a living death." I think if the writers can create drama without including rape, I would prefer they did. I think it would force them to come up with more innovative and emotionally charging storylines and scenarios, rather than just using rape as a quick ticket to emotional angst. (Like the above scenario of the paladin getting kidnapped by Bugbears becoming disillusioned with his order and going on a rampage against them. Rather than just slapping a rape sticker on him, they should make a more involved scenario, like he was kidnapped and tortured for weeks, but his order didn't come save him because they had other pressing concerns, or due to politics, or corruption higher up, then he became disillusioned that way.) Also, I worry about the blithe way you dismiss rape as being easy to sit through. If sexual assault has never happened to you or someone you know, sure it's easy to sit through it without feeling anything. For those with personal experience, or have a loved one who went through it, it's not as easy. I wouldn't recommend just throwing things like that out there because for a lot of people, it can be horrible to sit through, set off a trigger, make them relive their own pain, etc. Yeah totally agree do not use these heavy topics in a longer storyline or some major theme of a questline etc. Do not use it strictly because it is a taboo. Make it meaningful. Make people feel uncomfortable by seeing and playing these scenarios. But on the other hand do not shy away from it because it is a taboo in gaming. If its meaningful and you thought a lot about how to include this heavy thematic do it. Movies use these heavy themes a lot games rarely or not at all. That is where I see a big difference. Interactive media can be way more intense than any movie could and that is were I see big potential.

Print is dying. Digital media is in full bloom. Not in written form.. Especially with previews. There are not many previews anymore compared to let us say 5 years ago. Games media is actually shifting to more live content. Has shows, plays games, previews games through videos etc. Giantbomb back than was a pioneer. Today everyone does this. Even with reviews you can see this in the end. Mostly video not many written big reviews. may a page if its a pretty big title and you are lucky 2 pages.

Yeah totally agree. I think this sexual expicit content is exactly stuff like that. These could be themes, topics not the act itself.

Way to be a glass-half-full kind of person. Where were you when the Kickstarter began? "Pssh... only like 1K people are gonna back this. It's not even gonna reach 100% funding... No one cares about pitches for these kinds of games anymore..." I think the campaign really could've benefitted from such positive thinking. Again I think there is a huge misunderstanding here. I will never say that this game is not worth it. Quite the Opposite I have really really high expectations for this game since they introduced the kickstarter Campaign. And this has not changed at all. However I just do not disagree with their transparency and ways of doing their Kickstarter Campaign. This has nothing to do with the quality of the game. And the 1K comment was about people still reading these previews. As I said it is a fact that written previews are dying and they are dying really fast.

I am a bit different. I do not want to relax while playing story heavy games. I want emotions. When I played the last of us I really had a ****ty time but not because the game was bad but rather because it was brutal, bleak and hopeless and they did a perfect job to transfer it though the game. I also think that games should shy away from make every game fun. Just like the movie industry Gaming needs these emotional and bleak and shocking scenes and games to mature in my opinion at least. Of course fun is also important but if I want to relax I rather play a mindless jump and run or indy game. Story heavy heavy games are great for also showing a different vibe in games. Same goes for movies or TV series. Why do so many people watch stuff like Walking dead or Game of Thrones? Not because it is cool but because they want emotion and literally feel bad. It is part of human nature. That is also why the Walking Dead won so many GOTY Awards as well. darji pov is... odd. am simply not gonna be able to have meeting of the minds with him/her. gaming doesn't need bleak and shocking more than any other kinda media. for some games, shocking may be appropriate. is possible that "bleak" can enhance a game. that being said, am not gonna say that the industry needs shocking or bleak. shock needs a point. bleak needs a point. am not even gonna retread the wacky taboo craziness we dealt with earlier, but while we do not want developers to feel that controversial is off-limits, over-indulgence or forced use of "shock" and "bleak" is an even greater crime. you can make a very good game that ain't the least bit controversial, but a game that does controversial badly or forcibly is gonna end up as a poor game. HA! Good Fun! I play games because of the story. Gameplay especially in AAA or RPG games is secondary to me . And personally I would love more mature and better written stories. Stories in Games still feel like Movies from the 70s: mostly pretty bad stories and execution. And yes you are right Gaming does not need more bleak or shocking moments than any other media But right now they have almost none. A lot of things are a taboo which are totally normal in movies and series which is quite sad since I believe that games through the interaction could have a much bigger impact on your emotions than movies ever could do. But for that we also need much better writing. We are slowly getting there but as long these writers are afraid of trying something never before done in terms of story and video games we will sadly never reach that point. That is why I am very grateful for games like the Last of Us, Walking Dead or the Wolf Among us. Obsidian also does really really well in terms of writing so that is why I hope they could push these taboo topics at least a bit further. I am quite tired of all dudebro action and emotionless games. There is nothing wrong with such games but if 95% of game stories are terrible I have no other choice than support such games^^ As I said gaming does not always need to be fun and relaxing.^^ PS: Oh and I am a guy by the way.

I am a bit different. I do not want to relax while playing story heavy games. I want emotions. When I played the last of us I really had a ****ty time but not because the game was bad but rather because it was brutal, bleak and hopeless and they did a perfect job to transfer it though the game. I also think that games should shy away from make every game fun. Just like the movie industry Gaming needs these emotional and bleak and shocking scenes and games to mature in my opinion at least. Of course fun is also important but if I want to relax I rather play a mindless jump and run or indy game. Story heavy heavy games are great for also showing a different vibe in games. Same goes for movies or TV series. Why do so many people watch stuff like Walking dead or Game of Thrones? Not because it is cool but because they want emotion and literally feel bad. It is part of human nature. That is also why the Walking Dead won so many GOTY Awards as well.

To get this straight. I do not mind reading in games and I do love long dialogues. However there is a difference between game dialogue with options to respond etc and stale press previews. These are the ones I do not read or care about. As for the kickstarter one: My bad. I am always logged into kickstarter so I never noticed this. I thought this was the standard. I apologize for that.

A bit off topic but I just saw 20 minutes of a closed E3 Presentation of Dragon Age 3 which was leaked. And I can not believe they did not show this to the public. It looked fantastic, there were no spoilers at all just some marketing buzzwords and feature explanation so the press can write about it but otherwise it was fantastic and by far the best Thing I have seen from this game media wise. When I imagine Obsidian also did such a presentation with their Demo.... It would have been the perfect marketing of you Game... It is really a shame Publishers and developers still not understand that you should show your stuff to fans for real honest and concrete feedback regarding reputation and hit potential....

I kind of agree with you but dont throw everyone into one bag, I for once, enjoyed ME1 and I still am backer of PoE. Maybe we will be suprised by success they will make. I think that anything above lets say 0.5M sold copies would be quite big success I am not saying it. That was literally what Bioware said in their interviews when they introduced the Skip RPG function. If you enjoy Mass Effect great more power to you. ME was decent ME2 was a nice shooter and ME3 was terrible but if you like it it is totally okay^^

yeah and like 1k people will care about it without a video. Again there is a reason why ign, gamespot, polygon and co are switching to more and more videos. Do quicklooks, do video previews etc. No one reads these article anymore except the hardcore fan. And even than it is the exception. The event is over. Complaining about it is not going to change whatever content is in the articles. No out maybe prevent further mistakes down the line? I can not change what Obsidian did at E3. I only can try to prevent another incident like that. Also I can not believe that people actually think this game has mainstream appeal? No it has absolutely not. It is for RPG nerds like I am one. It is not for the Mass effect Bioware crowd. That kind of audience does not even want to read anything at all ac coring to Bioware.

Reducing female NPCs to collectible cards with boob pictures could be called many things, but "mature" and "tasteful" are not amongst them, methinks. Ok then let me rephrase it. The Witcher 1 had cards which were art and pretty acceptable and tasteful. The Witcher 2 on the other hand had very mature and tasteful sex scenes which is very rare in this industry. And it is by far much better than anything Bioware did past Baldurs Gate.

This is also something I do not understand. If this is so NDA heavy and backers do not get to see much of it anyway. Why are these updates are hidden anyway from the public? Because they can not handle work in progress screenshots or because Obsidian wanted something for backers in the first place so they have chosen these constant written very general updates? ? Again a very questionable marketing decision in my opinion.

...You honestly believe that's what a significant number of backers were looking for when they ponied up money? Pornography? Response to the inevitable counter: You're the one who derided Dragon Age for implicitly failing to deliver a quality product by merely providing "softcore porn." It'd be a missed opportunity if Obsidian didn't make a porn game with the money of people who didn't pay money for pornography? And you're going to laud The Witcher's sexual content as proof that gamers are "mature"? I realize you don't need a mouth to type, but it must be hard to hit the keys with your foot shoved in there, nevertheless. Sexual content does not mean pornography at all. Sex is something everyone will experience in their daily life. It is something natural that is getting way left out. Instead we a playing games with explicit violence and we have no problem at all. But if you want to include erotic or Sex in general in a very mature way even. people get really upset. Sex is nothing to be ashamed of. And the Witcher did this fairly way and very tasteful.

yeah and like 1k people will care about it without a video. Again there is a reason why ign, gamespot, polygon and co are switching to more and more videos. Do quicklooks, do video previews etc. No one reads these article anymore except the hardcore fan. And even than it is the exception.

Again. Watch the video. Clearly you're not watching it all. All three don't know who to write about them, they said it was weird, they've never heard of the games, and one was glad he didn't cover any and all are in agreement. If they are game journalists and don't know how to write about a game because it's a 'Kickstarter' game? That shouldn't matter. The fact is it's still a GAME. They also gave lame excuses like 'the fans are in on it' so I don't know what to write. Excuse me? The fans were following games like Diablo 3 and yet they could write about that game. But they find it hard to write about Kickstarter games because the fans are now in on it? It's those sort of lame excuses that try and justify their incompetence. Also, only one didn't tell about their opinion probably because they had now idea how to, not two people. You really need to watch and let it sink in. You're just lapping up what they say and making excuses for their incompetence. There's no reason why other sites can write about Kickstarter games which we've all seen and these people in the video can't. Keep making excuses for them Elerond. Yeah they are basically saying that they do not care about these games because they can not write anything new about it and no one really cares because these updates have mostly more information on these games than their previews. They just can not sell it.