Darji

That they went to E3 and have shown the game to the press was not wrong. But that they did not even show only small clip from their 30 Minute Demo to backers or the public in general until now is what people are upset or better disappointed about. As for Outside of the system. What system? The system of a Publisher? Indy games do that a lot but the big difference is that they also show some stuff to the fans and actual people that watch these conferences or coverage. For example: A good move would have been to show some stuff on one of the live shows via IGN or Gamespot for example. Just 5 minutes or even 2 would have been fine. Even saying that this is pretty early etc. But they did not even that....

Oh they will dig it and they will most likely write great previews of what they have seen. Problem is only that no one really cares about written previews anymore. Especially not AAA ones. Like Jeff Gerstman from Giantbomb always says: The written games media is dying. No one reads previews or even reviews anymore when there is so much video reviews and previews out there. So many people streaming the games or do a let's play on YouTube. Even Big Publishers these days are giving games out early to people to play them. Square for example does this a lot. They releasing their trailers today first on Youtube while totally ignoring these press guys for non AAA games.

We have never said we wouldn't allow Twitch streams or YouTube videos of the backer beta. Please stop spreading this because it is completely untrue. We will encourage people to share their beta experiences with as many people as they can. I never said that you guys would not allow it. I only said that I believe that you guys would not allow it based on the closure right now. Good to hear at least that. However I will not agree with your reasoning why not to show any material except really polished ones since I bought up a perfect example how Larian Studios handheld it up until now. They also removed and polished quite a bit features and mechanics but they also explained why something was removed or that this is still early alpha footage and a lot will change etc. It was really exciting to see a game come from Alpha with a very minimalistic UI, bare skillset or graphics and sound to the game it became in the end. However it is not my game so I can not change your thinking. I only can say that I am disappointed by it

Personally I would love to see the progress of the game through these videos. Again like Larian Studios it did with Divinity was perfect for my taste and in my opinion. I do not except them to be perfect in this regard but showing nothing is really a wasted and sad experience.,

No if you are a developer and do not want to let people stream your game beta or Alpha you send a letter to twitch and they take care of it and close every steam and ban even accounts. And yes there are other ways to get video out there. But I was talking about lets plays, live streams and so on. You know the stuff people watch^^

If they want to they can. They can close streams, and delete Youtube videos. Because of so said NDA for example. Will they do it? I don't know believe they will do it? Sadly yes. I seriously doubt Obsidian has the time, resources, or desire to attempt shutting down beta gameplay streams. There will be a lot of beta copies going out, and there are a lot of ways to get video on the Internet. Trying to keep a lid on them all would be futile. I think you do not understand how this works. It is all automated. They just need to send a letter to Twitch. Done. YouTube has content ID check which is also automated. Obsidian does not need to do anything to force this on YouTube and Twitch.

If they want to they can. They can close streams, and delete Youtube videos. Because of so said NDA for example. Will they do it? I don't know believe they will do it? Sadly yes.

You're right, you're the only one that cares about the game. I never said that. I was talking about all the backers that do not participate in these forums, all these people that already have forgotten about this game because there is no exposure at all except a few screens and 2-3 articles. More people are excited about a Dragon Age 3 right now than about pillars and why? Because they have seen the game. They have seen and heard developer talking about the mechanics while showing gameplay. Audio Visual concepts are way more exciting than some screens and tons of text most people will not even read to begin with. But yeah lets wait till Thursday and look at the comment section of these articles. With maybe 100 or even less comments. Because many people just do not care without video footage.

WE also live in a world in there press people hyping up games on twitter, podcasts, livestreams and so on they can not even talk about. Making people not only excited but also left out and jealous. Media has changed and developer need to adapt to these things. Luckily developer actually getting this more and more. Especially indy developer and normally also kickstarter project are way more transparent then Obsidian is. And that is my gripe. I will never think it is a conspiracy but rather a lack of understanding on today's media, its reception and communication between fans and developer. Also I say this again. I really really doubt that Obsidian will even allow twitch streams or YouTube Videos of the actual Beta to begin with. With is a real shame that they would not take advantage of this free marketing method. If you are confident in your game or product show it to the people who deserve and even made this whole thing possible in the first place. That is one of the reason Indy games get a huge exposure. For example Gaming on YouTube is the most watched thing there. Twitch has monthly 2-3 million+ different people watching the streams. All this is absolutely free marketing Obsidian did not even take advantage once of so far. You can not act and think "everything was fine back in the days so it is fine to do the same now." This is one of the reasons Nintendo is struggling so much right now. But they did really really well at this Years E3 regarding their coverage. And fans actually for the first time in a long time are excited about Nintendo.

Yeah it is great that press people get excited about a game. But you know what would even better. If backers also could get way more excited about the game. You know the people who made this whole thing possible.

1) .... there have been 79 updates on the development of the game. 2) NDAs are industry standard. For any industry. Not just games. NDAs are not for marketing, but for protection. Saying people need to be fired over writing up legal paperwork just shows you have no clue what you are talking about. Obsidian still runs a business, and regardless of a Kickstarter, they still need to act like one. 1. Other kickstarters have way more. Divinity alone has over 61 VIDEO updates which does not include the extreme huge amount of forum feedback and news as well. 2. NDA's are the stupidest thing in this Industry. In the days of YouTube, Twitch and co people still seem to overestimate the power of the press. Which soon will become nonexistent in terms of writing Previews. No one reads them anymore no one cares about them anymore. That is why more and more press people try the video and quicklook approach which Giantbomb nearly perfected over the years. Beside that showing a small gameplay video about some random encounter and maybe with some commentary has nothing to do with NDA anymore. Hell even South Park over all these years had more exposure than Eternity. And yes they need to act like a Business no doubt about that. But Business changes and what worked 10 years ago does not work today anymore. Even Nintendo had understand this this years E3. You can say what you want about their games but they had the best coverage and publicity of their games by actually showing stuff and people really got excited about this approach. If you think secretly is doing business maybe it is time to over think your business practices. One of the reason Obsidian games do not sell is because they do almost nothing for marketing at all. No one even knows these kind of games exist. Same with Eternity. Besides hardcore fans and of course backers People do not know about this game because there is almost nothing and no video at all out there to show it to other people. I would love to show this game to my friends which are huge RPG fans but they do not care about words or little screens with nothing in it. They want to see it in motion, take a look at the systems and so on. But yeah I get it. For whatever reason you want to protect Obsidian but protecting something you like does also mean to understand what goes wrong and how you actually could fix it. Obsidian did not go with the time and they also have not understand the principle of kickstarter and how these projects and backers want more transparency.

Other developers do that as well. And yes i want transparency. I want something to get excited about. Something I feel good about to have backed. And sadly I really do not get it with this game and company. Changing skills, numbers or mechanics do not mean anything to me as long I can not see them in a video or by playing it. So all the stuff eople discuss about is hypothetical which have no meaning as long you can not see it integrated in a game. Talking to people is fine. Even Bioware does this. The problem is showing the things you change and integrate into a game. A visual feedback. Again go and watch all these divinity logs and go to their forums. In their forums they do at least the same as here maybe even more. But the huge difference is the visual approach. Same goes for Wasteland.

Don't you think that there is something wrong when the only thing you need to get into these presentation is to have some popular YouTube channel while "normal" people can not get any info or material at all? Hell I even could pretend to be an Indy game developer to get a badge for E3 and I could go into these presentations. What makes these people special? In my opinion nothing at all. And I do not think that I am a second class fan just because I do not lie or have some YouTube channel....

If you can not show anything than it is not a good idea at all. We also do not know much about the story in Divinity or Wasteland as well since they only have released a small part of the game for testing. So that excuse is pretty weak. Don't you think? Also If you don't want to be spoilered dont read spoilers? Its not like some internet trolls are so interested in a hardcore RPG and spoil the whole game for you. Eternity is no AAA game aferall.

These shows are also about secret meeting and totally not yet announced games as well but people who are invited for these things can not even talk about being there. as for Joe it was probably about some announced AAA game he has seen. But can not talk about many specifics. I really doubt Joe can get entry to secret meetings. Which I totally get but you still can show stuff. Bloodborne for example even has a gameplay trailer on the showfloor but we have not even seen that one at all....

Yeah because we are stupid and telling us that this is work in prgress did totally mislead all the Divinity and Wasteland 2 backers.... Oh wait it did not. I love Obsidian and their games but next time I will just buy the game when it is done and support actaully developer that value me more and do not shove me aside. I really need to look at if I can back out of Torment and get my money back and instead give it to other developers. You sound abit personaly hurt and i realy wonder why. I mean you and me and all we here are just people who wanted this game right and not the control of the way obsidian does their work. And i dont understand why you tell everyone you dont want to back this then and want your money back... people who tells everything what they are gonna do about it as some kind of revenge are pretty childish imo. Not that i want to sound to rude but the way you express yourself is realy a bit over the top as a adult dont you think? It is not about revenge. It is about not believe something anymore. Again I will still buy these games from obsidian but I will not back them anymore since I think it is wrong to prioritize the press and give nothing to backers at all. No one demands anything ridiculous. And I think like 5 minutes of gameplay which is still pretty small is not too much to ask to make for the people who actually made this whole game possible in the first plade. Doing a kickstarter means more communication and in my opinion I think they are not doing this at all. Again I bet they will not even allow beta streams when it is out for backers. This alone shows how outdated their understanding is in this regard. Obsidian makes great games but they do a really ****ty job promoting it. Maybe that is why their games sadly do not sell that well in the first place. This NDA alone is just bad marketing in my opinion. And whoever had that idea in the first place needs to be fired...

Yeah because we are stupid and telling us that this is work in prgress did totally mislead all the Divinity and Wasteland 2 backers.... Oh wait it did not. I love Obsidian and their games but next time I will just buy the game when it is done and support actaully developer that value me more and do not shove me aside.

For all you know the presentation showed spoilers that some of us don't want to see yet. We will all see the product at some point; you're all getting exactly what you paid for, which is a game. The entertainment is extra, and it is basically up to the developers, and their public relations, as to what they show and to whom. Then show us some random encounter from early in the game and done. This excuse is pretty weak. And yeah I will get what I paid for but that does not mean I will support more and future projects because I really do not like how they handle this situation while so many and even much smaller studios do it so much better. This is no AAA top secret project but they are really treating it like that. Which is just sad in my opinion. Ah, rubbish. They've fed us plenty of information. I'd much rather they spend their time building a good game than wasting lots of energy trying to slake a few poster's sense of entitlement. We'll all see the same results in the end. They have not shown any gameplay at all while the press got this opportunity several times already. And yeah wasting a 30 minute demo on journalists is ok but making maybe a 5 minute demo for the people who financed this game in the first place is too much to ask?

E3 in General? Most of the AAA stuff. Especially first party stuff except Nintendo. They really did understand this which baffles my mind that these are the ones that got it right. Sorry, I meant with embargos and stuff, like Pillars of Eternity (No photos, no detailed or in-depth discussion, no videos etc. etc.). I've read tons of people saying "I was behind closed doors at X" and someone else was over at "Y" (I don't recall which titles I've been reading quite a lot on E3 in a short amount of time) and at the same time I see articles talking about it, screenshots, gameplay videos, teasers, in-depth discussion etc. etc. Let me rephrase: - How many titles were showed behind closed doors with embargo? BIG AAA Ttitles like MGSV and Bloodborne. So people are most hyped about but also journalists hype the most.... Mostly Sony and MS stuff. Nintendo basically showed everything they had to the actual public though demos. Other stuff was also on the show floor but maybe had behind closed doors more in depth demos. Like the Witcher 3 for example but at least we have seen like 15-20 minutes of gameplay from these games. There were however no real embargos since people could talk about these closed door demos as well in great detail. If you want a specific number you will most likely not get it.

For all you know the presentation showed spoilers that some of us don't want to see yet. We will all see the product at some point; you're all getting exactly what you paid for, which is a game. The entertainment is extra, and it is basically up to the developers, and their public relations, as to what they show and to whom. Then show us some random encounter from early in the game and done. This excuse is pretty weak. And yeah I will get what I paid for but that does not mean I will support more and future projects because I really do not like how they handle this situation while so many and even much smaller studios do it so much better. This is no AAA top secret project but they are really treating it like that. Which is just sad in my opinion.

E3 in General? Most of the AAA stuff. Especially first party stuff except Nintendo. They really did understand this which baffles my mind that these are the ones that got it right.

Only 2 of these were worth the rabid fandom... and it certainly wasn't FB or that Demon Souls crud... so I guess your point is "word of mouth produces the same results as targeted marketing"? You will never change human nature and marketing is fantastically adept at tricking the inner monkey. There is no point in herniating over it. Marketers lie and suckers buy. If humanity were capable of defeating the beast there would be no reality TV. Based on what? Tweets? Really? What convinced you that the previewed content was a significant departure from everything we've been exposed to in the copious updates? Or did I miss something again? It is about the feeling of left out. You know back in your teen days when something happened in school and all your friends were invited to a party except you. It is a normal human reaction and an understandable one as well. Yeah of course if you do not care about games or do not care about new infos all the time then you will never understand this feeling. Take a look at Divinity: Original sin. Just look at their youtube channel and look at all these updates which so many of them actually provide media. On or of-screen. They did not already do kickstarter updates they did way more than that. Or Wasteland 2 and how you actually could see the progress the game made with regular video updates etc and how people get way more excited and interested in these games than people get from this one here. Obsidian clearly misses some people with a good sense of marketing and how marketing today in the world of YouTube or Twitch actually can benefit your game. Most people do not care about some boring RSP article in which some journalists praise something. People love to see actual footage and progress reports in other form than just written text or some "gifs". Doing it like they did feels outdated and disconnected from the fans who love and support these games.

Oh yeah of course. I just find it really sad with AAA games but with kickstarter games I really expect this now. I backed quite a few RPGs and they all do a much better job than Obsidian in this regard. If you look at Wasteland 2 or especially Divinity: Original sins. They do such a fantastic job to communicate with people and show their progress a lot in video updates. They do not spoiler anything but you really get a feel of the world they created, the system they have build and all other mechanics and skills in this game. It is really a joy and thx to that I even raised my pledge, because I really feel like taking part in their progress. I do not feel left out at all. I also bet Obsidian will forbid any beta streams on twitch as well. Which really shows that they need to learn a lot about this issue.

Great and we did see nothing at all. It is disappointing. Hope some people leak very early stuff like they did with bloodborne. Maybe then Obsidian will understand that controlled media is much much better than leaked infos.

The whole presentation is maybe a bit too much to ask since they will also explain basic stuff they already told us but at least some kind of footage at the same time would have been nice. This is really frustrating especially during E3. This year for example with MGSV and Bloodborne. All we got to see where some CG and 5 minute trailer without any gameplay at all while the press got a 30+ minute demonstration. People who do not even care much about these games or even reported badly about the whole game (Quite Accident for example) . Not even like 5 minutes of this footage. And what happens because of this. People now leaked a very early trailer of Bloodborne which was supposed to be shown at last years TGS. Which looks even worse than the stuff they showed the press at this years E3. So yeah there is definitely a marketing problem. There. With kickstarter I had hoped it would be a bit more different. And many developers actually do this. they release alphas, show very early gameplay (Wasteland 2 for example) and explain these backers what is going to change so these people can understand that this is not final at all. And people really dig and appreciate these video updates. Sadly this does not happen with this game which is a damn shame since I believe this one has the chance to be very special for many people in the end. I really feels sometimes as a second class person even I undoubtedly love and support these games way more than these journalists do. Nintendo did a really really good job in this regard at this years E3. It is very rare that I actually praise everything Nintendo does. But it seems they have at least understood this actually pretty simple matter. These kind of games do not need the press at all. Because fans can market this game way better than any journalist can do.