BruceVC

In South Africa during Apartheid conscription was rigidly enforced. And if you were unluckily enough to be conscripted in the late 1970's and 1980's you could be sent to South West Africa ( now called Namibia) or the border between Namibia and Angola where you fought Cubans, Russians and Africans that were aligned with Communist ideology. It was a real war and this had a serious detrimental mental impact to many people long after there military service was finished. The problem is that Conscription is fine when a real threat faces your country but in the case of South Africa it was used as a way to enforce Apartheid, which was a morally reprehensible reason. So after Apartheid ended many people now questioned what they had spent up to 10 years fighting for. At least in the USA the veterans are still seen as heroes and are treated with respect. One more important point about South African conscription is that South Africa also played a big part during the Cold War by preventing the spread of Communism through Southern African. So its military efforts weren't just about keeping Apartheid in place. So I am only in favour of conscription if the country faces a real external threat or absolutely needs additional manpower for an important foreign deployment .

I am impressed, but I don't tend to over-analyze things in such an early stage of development. But I am still waiting for those first artistic interpretations of the much loved and ubiquitous chainmail-bikinis that we will see in PE I suppose we will see them later in the updates?

I don't think anyone thinks you are anti-Turkish, you are merely giving your honest perspective I do feel that any country needs to take historical responsibility for its actions. Or at least accept they did it. For example European countries are constantly reminded of Colonialism. They don't deny it. Turkey needs to do the same especially when the evidence around the genocide of the Armenians is irrefutable. And for the record I consider Turkey a very important secular, Muslim country in the region. But they still need to accept what they did during WW1

Always be prepared to accept failure when asking a lady out. Its normal and shouldn't deter you from asking anyone else out afterwords even if the date is a disaster. You should bring Tommy with you to the restaurant you go to, that would show your commitment to our four legged friends

I haven't read the thread, but I felt that I had to respond to this. I have nothing against Muslims in general. I have Muslim friends, I work with Muslim kids and I like them. But, I will always have a problem with Muslims like these. I come from a village that was almost wiped out by Muslims on several occasions. I guess you have read about what the Turks did with the Armenians and Assyrians? We migrated to Sweden because we simply couldn't live in our country simply for not being Muslims. Both countries we lived in had the same problem. When I see stuff like this, it reminds me of my family's past. We came to Sweden with barely nothing. My parents had to work their asses of to make it over here. I can tell you from personal experience that what you saw there is a regular thing in the Middle East. My friends' cousin was beheaded because he's not a Muslim. His head was delivered to his parents house. Tell me that isn't ****ed up. We got away from that **** and now it is following us to Europe. I don't mind living with Muslims, what scares me are the fundamentalists that want US to change. When I condemn these people and the way I do it, I think I have some God damn valid ground to do so. I have 2 Turkish friends and we often discuss politics, its bizarre but dispute the fact they are very well informed they both refuse to accept what the Turks did to the Armenians during WW1. They almost deny it happened or claim the massacre was exaggerated. What I do get them to accept is that if Turkey admits compliance in the genocide then Turkey would be expected to pay reparations. So maybe thats why Turks generally deny the Armenian genocide?

I agree that was a very informative post, thanks Rostere

Okay. I see now, it makes a good point

Snatched from another forum. I thought that the perspective was interesting. This can't be a real movement, I have never heard of them before?

That does sound fun and spontaneous, nice one

Actually I have. Was working at a bookstore and had tons of book to read. You are right that the tone is different. The Koran is much more direct, commanding and strict in tone. But the general underlaying basics are the same. It's not a stretch to think the muslims and christians basicly worhip the same God, but under a different name and in different ways. Really what people in the west ignore is that Christianity has been systematically driven out of society by various factors and is no longer the force it once was. Islam wasn't. When I was in Abu Dhabi there were 100+ channels of people reading the Koran 24/7, people prayed regularly 5 times per day, and people of other faiths had to adhere to things like the Ramadan, by going to segregated places in restaurants to eat. In other countries european women have to go out covered in public. That's all fine - its their god given right. But if someone tried to enforce similar Christian practices in Europe, theoretically, the outcry would literally blow the heavens. Okay so we're more "progressive" - we don't need that anymore. But where's the parity and mutual respect? Why can't others in muslim countries enjoy the exact same freedoms as everyone else does in europe? I had some coptic (egyptian christian) friends here in Belgrade and they often told me how difficult life was for them in Egypt on account of religious persecution. I see it as very one sided. We have discussed similar topics to this before and I agree with some of what you are saying. As you know I travel to the Middle East (ME) for work and have personal experience in how certain ME countries operate Firstly what you are saying should be obvious to any person who has studied the political machinery of ME countries. Most ME countries are not Democracies and don't have freedoms like religion, press and womens right. And despite improvements I don't think they ever will. So you are correct that Western countries are more equatable and fair societies So now the question is what does this mean to us Westerners or rather what can we do about it? Well you need to accept that in order to do business in those countries you need to abide by there rules and conservative values. Its not that hard and thats just the way it is. However I firmly believe we have every right to believe that our Western values and ideological views are superior to countries and governments that don't follow Democratic principles. Now as far as immigration is concerned to Western countries people need to learn to assimilate to the country they want to immigrate to. Obviously they would keep there own religion but they should learn the local language and cannot practice archaic customs like forced marriages or discriminate against gay people. If they can't accept that then they should be deported. I don't see this as unreasonable if you want to live in a foreign country?

I want to ask you guys something about buying second hand PC games. In South Africa the PC game shops generally don't allow this as they claim there would be issue around the legality of the license. In your country how do you get a second hand game registered online if someone else has already played and registered the game? I would think the DRM system would reject the authorization code?

Nope, a PC will generally always outperform a console. The rate that new console versions get released is every few years and the hardware architecture stays the same. Improved PC components get released every few months so I can't see consoles passing PC in performance ever?

"thanks for asking"

Have to use infantry for that. And if they did that, well, eh, have to worry about the villagers attacking them or just casualties in general. Not good PR for them to drag US bodies around the street chanting, etc., heh. Drone strikes or air strikes are a lot more low risk, hard to make something like a guided grenade in terms of explosive power, therein lie the problem, as you vape everyone nearby with a Hellfire (overkill to use an ATGM for a man, really). But even doing that - sending troops in to kill the target- at this point is not going to deter the "it's a war on Islam" jihadists, so they'll keep plotting and keep doing stuff like this. You make some good points. Its strange because normally I find myself opposite your view in our political discussions

Its not bad and seems practical, nice one

Good points but now Western countries only intervene militarily if the UN security council votes in favor and there are no veto's. So at least countries respect the UN now and its decisions. Of course the veto is also one of the failures on the UN IMO. Hence the mess in Syria

They sound hot...."Danish eco-punks" ...I like it

So basically you are telling us you are friends with a group of tree-huggers?

Nah, I fail to see how wanting my females characters to look aesthetically pleasing is silly or unreasonable. I would argue you are in the minority in wanting ladies in PE to look like tin cans? There's a big difference between "aesthetically pleasing" and "sexy". You are fine with guy armours looking like "tin cans", those don't have to be "aesthetically pleasing"? I paint armour for a living, I know what makes a kickass, or even good looking armour design. Armours in a game for men and women can look badass without being sexy, certainly what has been presented here is in no way a "tin can". I feel silly for even arguing with you, I previously played a devil's advocate for the boobplate, because I can imagine that being used for a purpose that makes sense for a female character in a specific setting. But no, just no. Showing skin, cleavage, midriff, any kind of stupid nonsense like that is not aesthetically pleasing. Go jerk off to "Pirates", I will be a selfish bastard and say I don't want your kind of bullpoo in PE. Wow you seem to be in a bad mood today Merlkir but its good to vent. Do you feel better about your life now? Now back to the armour discussion, I admit I am not an expert in Medieval and Fantasy armour. I am part of that group thats plays and purchases PC games for entertainment purposes, and I love RPG. I may not know a lot but I do know what most fans like and want in a game and once again you are in the minority..sorry buddy. This is something you will have to deal with You should read the BSN forums if you disagree with me. PE will have its own interpretation of chainmail bikini's for female characters. And the reason for this is that Obsidian understands the importance of the aesthetic experience

Nah, I fail to see how wanting my females characters to look aesthetically pleasing is silly or unreasonable. I would argue you are in the minority in wanting ladies in PE to look like tin cans?

As for the other discussion; It doesn't matter when or how retraction will be. There will be civil war anyway. Both Iraq and Afghanistan have fundamentalist, hostile fractions of religions and beliefs in one country who hate each other. And now also ample terrorists who just like to add to the chaos of all. It doesn't matter if 'we' stay or leave, it'll be anarchy anyway. Even in non-occupied countries like Egypt once the dictator fell and all should be better things are worse than ever. And does not helping Syrie due to the black mark left on the west due to Iraq/Afghanistan help? No. But they just fear interfering due to getting more flak like that, and thousand of innocents die. It's a mess out there. And there isn't any way to fix it up... :/ You do make some good points of problematic Middle East countries and the conflict that we now see after the Arab Spring but its not all doom and gloom. There are several cases of successful transitions of countries in the Middle East that have implemented there own versions of Democracy. Algeria, Morocco and Libya are just some examples. And as I tend to mention Libya is how the West can intervene in regime change with a positive result, in other words the country isn't worse off after the Western intervention like we see in Iraq. Its all about how you effect regime change

Send in a Navy SEAL team. Yes that would be effective but the logistics would be very difficult to do every time there was a target. There have been over 60 drone Strikes alone since 2012, imagine trying to send in the SEALS every time that was necessary. The Pakistan government objected vociferously when Bin Laden was killed, what would be there response if Special Forces were sent into there territory just to kill a Taliban leader? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drone_attacks_in_Pakistan

Carpet bomb the area with Nitrous oxide? When everybody is sitting down giggling, go around and ID those of interest and do whatever you need to do (while the rest is laughing at the hilariousness of it). Ok, maybe not practical, but sometimes you need to think outside the box "Gorthfucius"

Maybe this sounds a bit naive: Getting the coalition forces out of Afghanistan entirely? At least the US & co. can make that choice. Okay that would work but there is a timeline for this already, end of 2014 The USA and its allies would have pulled out already but these things take time. You also don't want to give the impression that the coalition is running away like they did at the end of the Afghanistan\USSR civil war. You don't want a country that is completely destabilized politically and fundamentalist groups come to power and then are able to prosper and grow. Like the Taliban did originally in Afghanistan. So until the USA pulls out of Afghanistan surly it has to target certain people with drone strikes as these people are responsible for attacking there forces? It is a military conundrum and there are nuances to this debate and how the USA and its allies conduct themselves

It's a lot more complicated than that. Drone strikes tend to have **** accuracy. So even if you're gonna manage to kill the target, so do hundreds of other people in it's vicinity. If you kill some taregt in Afghanistan where dozens of families get killed too, it tends to shatter entire communities that eventually will turn to radicalisation. This news of course is being spread around the entire Muslim community on the globe, and being perceived as an attack on Islam as a whole. Of course it's easy to say "Well **** them, bomb them into pieces too", but a) not only is this kind of thinking just wrong, but b) also turns into a "national security problem" for the countries that do these attacks. So expect the rapidity of these revenge attacks soaring as cowardly drone strikes continue. At some point, we're gonna have a global Israel/Palestinian situation here. A perpetual war machine that will beget more revenge attacks which will beget even more drone strikes ad infinitum. Okay I see what you are saying, to be honest I did think that drone strikes were able to reduce casualties by being more specific but I am not an expert. I do agree with your point that any innocent killed does fuel the "anti-Western" sentiment. But here is the question, if the USA knows that there is Taliban leader in a village in western Pakistan that is directing attacks against coalition forces in Afghanistan how do you suggest he gets killed?