BruceVC

Okay that was funny, but you know what I mean

No, you have to be a woman to be alienated by seeing women who are not like you or are doing something you wouldn't. I haven't seen the video in question, but from how it's described it isn't sexist. Having electrocution and spanking is common in BDSM, which can involve degrading, but BDSM can be consensual and an expression of someone's sexuality, it's not wrong. Degrading to women in general? No, that's generally more of a prudish reaction and projection, these people are individuals involved in role play, it's a fantasy. These people talk about systematic issues of society wrapped in the phrase "the patriarchy", but this reaction is also a symptom of similar issues. Yes context is important in life but in this case this video is not a video promoting BDSM but a video that is trying to appeal to gamers. Please explain to me what message you are sending to prospective gamers when women are being degraded in this way? Where is the positive to this type of marketing?

I'm fairly new here (joined a few months ago) and so far I've had I guess a neutral to good experience. I haven't seen or experienced any overt abuse--but again, I've noticed a lot of people assume I'm a guy (despite my profile noting otherwise). Sure I have a fairly gender-neutral username, but that shouldn't necessarily invite presumption (and given I've seen guys with "feminine" usernames, determining gender by username isn't reliable anyway). So am I treated well because I'm just one of the members here, or am I treated well because people think I am a guy? Honestly I assume the former rather than the latter, but it's still food for thought. I have seen some disturbing comments made in a Project Eternity thread regarding how female vs male PCs should be treated, and of course there was a thread discussing Anita Sarkeesian's "Feminist Frequency" series that had some disturbing comments, which was sadly unsurprising. (Now, I don't think everything Anita Sarkeesian has to say is gold or even good, but it is possible to disagree, agree, and discuss the points she brings up in her video series without either taking a mention of feminism as a personal attack--which many people do for some reason--or getting unpleasant, and unfortunately the mention of her name--which I realize I risk even doing so here--invites the wrath of those inexplicably frightened by her). But at the same time, the comments in those threads I've found disturbing were not outright abusive or hateful, and it was possible to carry on a fairly reasonable conversation. We can't and shouldn't necessarily censor or drive out opinions some find disturbing on that alone, especially if we can use it to build a more productive dialogue later. I've also seen similar subjects broached at other message boards and having gotten MUCH more messy and out of hand than they were here. So I'd say so far, for a gamer board, this is one of the more welcoming ones. And then of course there's Hiro Protagonist's post above, with the inevitable "female gamers must be playing browser games only" which, again, reflects an attitude I find extraordinarily irritating and non productive to encouraging women to both be gamers and publicly "come out" as gamers. And everytime I see female gamer demographics discussed, I see that alienating attitude flaunted by someone, and it just doesn't help at all. All that said, I think the community is more welcoming than others, and that it tends toward discussion and exploration rather than fighting and alienating, and that is a very good thing. You're not going to avoid discussing issues of gender and sexism and related issues, so the community having the potential of keeping it as a discussion and not turning into a flamewar is a good thing. I'm just one person though; others' experiences may vary. I would hope, however, the majority are good. Once again thanks for the detailed response on this topic Several people have mentioned that they think our female members hide the fact that they are female to avoid uncalled attention or comments. Just this thought concerns me even though I realize its a reality. To all male members on these forums imagine a world where you had to hide your sex to avoid people possibly being rude or dismissive. Seriously think about it for a while, you prefer to hide who you really are. That should never be the case in life, it should be something we all reject but I understand thats one of the realities of bigotry. I have always believed that most bigots are people who just don't understand whats its like to a victim of discrimination and until the tables are turned they never will

My point was, as I mentioned, is that he shouldn't be using lone videos as examples of a systematic issue suggesting it's ubiquitous, it's clearly an exaggeration. That's the thing about anecdotes, they're not representative, not in terms of content or in terms of prevalence, we don't know how many women see them or what effect it has on them, probably way more women saw that video when they seek out that content and post about it on blogs to complain about it. I question the motives of people who seek out content for other audiences to then highlight for people that it was never designed to appeal to, and then to complain it's alienating to those people because it's not designed for them. The argument seems to be "content I don't like or isn't designed for me shouldn't exist". Your point makes no sense, so I have to be a women to find a video sexist or degrading to women?

I fail to see the problem with this, without having seen the video because it has been taken down. Lecheroineineus isn't a word, maybe they meant lecherousness, and this kind of bent that's anti-sexuality and prudish has nothing to do with sexism, it's sexism itself, I think it comes from an anti-equality position and detracts from feminism, one of the many reasons why feminism as a brand is tarnished so badly. The argument is fallacious, seeing all the people that share some categories with you doing something you wouldn't enjoy can be alienating (of course no one complains when it's something they support), but there are two basic facts most women in game related media are not in their underwear, spanked, or electrocuted and no rational female would ever feel alienated by one video, it suggests that this is ubiquitous which is an extreme exaggeration, I've never seen a gaming related video where anyone person gets spanked and electrocuted, and if even I wanted to, now I can't. It's so illiberal, just because you don't like it doesn't mean you can lie about it and make up excuses to want to take it down. By all means, if people think their is an audience they can make content that they'd like, the push to censor and destroy content that's not meant for them, seems just malicious to me. I find your point difficult to understand and I'm sorry but if you haven't seen the video how can you comment? The crux of the point is the sexist nature of video. The video was and is degrading to women and it was stupid. I don't get how people can debate something that they haven't experienced. It just seems like a waste of discussion to me. Also feminism does not have a bad image in the circles I move in, I'm sorry thats how you feel.

Thats a really insightful post, thanks for commenting. This was the type of feedback I was looking for and you have confirmed some of the issues I was thinking about. Can I ask you a general question, how do you find these forums in regard to other forums where ladies are treated rudely or with irrelevance?

Was more of a joke at what I suspect you're getting at, especially with the RPS article. Not really seeing this as a question we must ask, but eh. Just looking at a simple answer to it rather than anything more grandiose. I guess you'd need to get some numbers on how many active posters we actually have out of the ~ 40,000 registered ones. I think you misunderstand me, I like the opinion of women and I enjoy interaction with them. Ladies tend to give a certain perspective to debates that men may miss. But I also enjoy these forums and the level of debate we have, yet we seem to have very few female members. So where do they post? I am not trying to imply anything but it does seem strange to me. I may be missing something

They probably don't post for a variety of reasons. The main one being they don't play Obsidian games. Also where does the article get the 50% of gamers are female? Are they talking games on FB? If that's the case, then they're probably spending time on FB. Interesting, I agree it may be that lady gamers just don't really play Obsidian games. That would make sense

" lot of Scandinavians, and that makes up for the lack of women" You funny

Odd why that is special - pretty much everything is unserious and unrealistic and immature in games. As for closing the comments who knows, Walker could just be a giant puff like Kuchera is. I guess trolling or disagreeing comments that can be painted as such constitute silencing or something. Meh, it's just the usual "justice!" jawing online, in any case. The reason they didn't put comments in is listed below. I emailed him in support of his article and he explained he has already received 900 emails and only 30 were negative, so 5% of total comments are opposed to his view. That makes me happy "The comments are off on this post. This is a reference post, a place we can point people toward to understand our position. I am not willing to let this post become yet another platform for the people who wish to silence this debate. On this occasion I have no desire to publicly put up with the invasive ignorant spite and fearful anger that will be littered amongst the usual excellent comments from our fantastic readers. This is not an attempt to stifle discussion – RPS provides ample opportunity for it, and will continue to do so. If you want to communicate your thoughtful disagreement or unpleasant bile, my email address is at the top of this page, where your remarks will receive an audience of one. So please do use it. I will read and consider everything."

Your comment isn't helpful, I know they don't post here and thats why I am asking the question. No need to be so defensive, I know these forums aren't sexist or misogynist but we should be asking "why we don't have many female members" Or does this not concern you at all?

Hi All I really enjoy these Obsidian forums, I find most people intelligent and they offer thoughtful and insightful comments on topics. I also believed that these forums were balanced in the way of male\female contributions. As I mentioned numerous times I am a liberal and I recently read the excellent article on RPS about sexism http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/04/06/misogyny-sexism-and-why-rps-isnt-shutting-up/ In that article they mention that 50 % of gamers are female, and that struck me. Where are all the female gamers on these forums? I know about LadyC but how come we don't see more ladies commenting. I assume they play RPG and its not like these forums are in any way immature or sexist so whats happening? Any insight to this would be appreciated.

I agree completely, I read the article on RPS and everything they say is reasonable and accurate. Also they are not saying that there is some conspiracy to shut down any comments from them about sexism they are just saying they want to highlight again the issue of sexism. Thats what they mean when they say " RPS isn't shutting up", at least thats my understanding of the headline

Yeah good idea .. I've started taking a lot of pictures recently too. I realized my dad almost took none from the same period of his life and I wanted to make sure that if eventual kids were ever interested some kind of documentation exsisted from mine. The only two recent pictures (2-3 years) of me are either from my thesis defence, where I'm wearing a "white tie" tailcoat or the party after, with the same attire, and one where I'm sitting on a park bench with two gorgeous russian models are kissing me. Way I figure, sometimes quality beats quantity. Hi Nep I vote for the 2 Russian model pictures

I believe in equal opportunities. Wow thats a trip down memory lane, I am not sure but do you think women could vote in those days ?

I am just glad that this sham of a KS hasn't raised more than $25k, it seems to be stuck on $23K for a while now Hopefully in the last 8 days they don't get much more. Also read the latest comments on the KS page to see some more legitimate issues with this KS

Interesting I never played the older Ultima games, I see where they got the idea from

I am very pleased with the tiers they reached and I see the game will now have an underworld with its own ecosystem. Thats a cool concept and novel. I like the idea of exploring underground worlds that have there own identity

I hope you are all having a good Saturday evening because I'm working tonight at a customer, its 10 pm and I should be finished in about 3-4 hours. Shame poooooor me But there are advantages to working on the weekend, I had a good but hectic Easter. I did loads of partying over 3 days so it will be nice to have relatively restful weekend. Also I intend to drive home through all the places that I know the cops tend to have roadblocks. It will make a nice change to not have to avoid them like the plague

Hurlshot my fine feathered friend, don't you know that graphics aren't everything? Think of all the exciting gameplay that awaits you on the journey down this "golden age of gaming " through M&M 8.

They're from Gent (en: Ghent) actually (the difference is ~150km ) a city you definitely should to visit if you ever find yourself in Belgium (disclaimer: I might be biased as I live there). Nice, I was in Belgium last year for Tomorrowland. Awesome country, great food and friendly people

Okay Flemish, I was unsure of the accent. Thanks for the information

I LOVE this sort of thing. Being able to creatively approach problems and solve them through unconventional means. I also think this game offers some really innovative ways to solve problems, I like it I have never played any Divinity games either but I now intend to. Oh I will be pledging towards this game, I found the pitch sincere and I like the guy making it. Is he German?

Absolutely. Think of what a single skilled disciplined designated marksman could do in a battlefield like that. It would be a damn turkey shoot. Its a well known fact that almost all African armies lack discipline. This comes from inadequate training that is caused by lack of funds. But don't be fooled, an untrained army in the right environment, like a jungle, can still be deadly

As usual another post from Oby that could be relevant but due to his crusade to expose the West as a corrupt and inefficient entity it's full of incorrect facts and assumptions that aren't true, "sigh". The Oil in the Niger delta is managed by the Nigerian government and it has made many Nigerians very wealthy. The lack of the distribution of wealth and the shocking impact on the ecosystem is due to bad management from the Nigerian government . They are trying to resolve this. This has nothing to do with Western neocolonialism. Nigeria is a friend of the West and many Western countries have major and secure investments in Nigeria. Nigeria won't be buying Nukes, Nigeria doesn't need Nukes. This article is 5 years old and I haven't heard anything lately about Nigeria seriously wanting to invest in them. A couple of additional points from my side. Nigeria is a wealthy country due to oil and I have traveled there several times for work. Its definitely a rising star in the region and carries influence over ECOWAS (Economic Community of West African States) and the decisions that effect the region, like the recent civil war in Mali. Nigeria has several internal issues that they need to address. The main ones are The distribution of wealth from oil and ensuring that they maintain there infrastructure. Many African countries don't seem to realize the importance of having working infrastructure. Nigeria is not the worst in this regard There is a rise from Islamic Militants in the North of the country, these militants are responsible for terrorist attacks and several killings. They need to be stopped as this makes part of Nigeria unstable Nigeria is a fascinating country to visit and a very important contributor towards the vision of a unified economic Africa. They have there challenges but they have done more good than bad in there political decisions