BruceVC

Good to have you back

Guys what's Fable: The Lost Chapters like, I saw it on special on GameStop and it seems interesting ?

Why did you cancel your pledge if you don't mind me asking? Was it because there isn't the option to play a female from the beginning ? I'm mostly skeptical about multi-platform support in such an ambitious Kickstarter game ...and lack of elves If it turns out good then I will pick it up "and lack of elves" ...

And some people would say that you just summed up everything that is wrong with the gaming industry: You look at a game, and before playing it, wonder who will patch it, as you are by now expecting a certain amount of bugs in any and every product. That's well said, very clever observation. I'm so use to bugs I assume you can't release a game without a development team waiting to fix things Hurlshot you probably won't believe me but that's exactly why I've never bought this game before, I'm battling with the fact that there will never be another game set in the world with all the lore and characters. It shouldn't effect me but for some reason it does

Why did you cancel your pledge if you don't mind me asking? Was it because there isn't the option to play a female from the beginning ?

That's entirely not what I said. If a game has a stretch goal for, say, other platforms, I'll contribute more. I never said it was, hence the question. Just that to be on the fence and all it took was them giving an option for a female PC does indicate that the presence of one is fairly important to you. Was curious how many of these racist, homophobic games you come across. Then again sometimes that is a matter of not looking hard enough and counting percentages of races/sexes it seems. But is not much these days for sure with the outrage machine running on social media, for sure. you make me a laugh Malc with your logic which in this case is accurate You right, I can't recall any games that I specifically haven't bought because they are homophobic or racist, I may just have forgotten. But that's a good thing isn't it as clearly companies are realizing what is not acceptable as content...so this is a reason to be happy

What I'm confused about is if 38 Studio's has gone bankrupt who does the support for this game? Where are the developers....

It's ironic, because when the Russians offered help to the US which would definitely have prevented a terrorist attack they leaped to accept. Oh wait, they didn't, did they. Shame about the people who died and were injured, still at least people didn't try to blame the Russians afterwards... oh wait, that they did do, didn't they. Strawman argument Zor ( I hope I used it in the right context) We aren't talking about Saudi Arabia, but we can start a discussion about this and if they ever hosted an international sports event what would be consequences. But Qatar is hosting a FIFA world cup in the next decade or so, so several discussions need to be had about points like where can fans drink and gay rights of fans who visit the country. International sports events and conservative governments do create a dichotomous situation so thanks for putting this one on the radar Finally the USA doesn't really need Russia's help in fighting internal terrorist attacks, that's why they refused Russian aid which I question if it was sincere anyway

1) It is their fault - they violate the law by illegally crossing the border. Anything else is secondary. You are not blaming a shop owner for slippery floors because thief broke his neck in attempted burglary at night. 2) When in Rome, do as Romans do. Eating or not eating pork hurts precisely nobody yet considered as offensive by the majority of population in certain locations. Should some country practice necrophilia and will root for fellow necrophiles I doubt they would enjoy the same support gay community have. Oh Cultist darling You being such a naughty boy. I'll tell you something interesting. During Apartheid the government believed, like you do, that homosexuality was a choice that could be "cured". Anyway they had these clandestine clinics where gay conscripted soldiers were sent for reprogramming. The treatment involved electro therapy...seriously basically torture to get people to change there sexual orientation. Do you think that would work on you and your sexual orientation. And even if they did manage to somehow rewire you do you think this is what a civilised and reasonable society does? The words you need to remember are empathy and tolerance, practice them and try to follow the

Uh. They're under sanctions- and the US will apply those sanctions to companies that ignore their own 'special' set of sanctions amounting to a total economic blockade too, so anyone selling to Iran gets zero US business- hence (1) and (2) might as well be "harness the power of djinn (which exist)" to all practical purposes. The US sanctions were imposed in 1987 in response to, er, Iran's brutal, uh, invasion of, hmm, Iraq, yet another act of aggression and instability as that war started when Ayatollah Khomenei personally head butted Saddam Hussein's fist in a truly egregious manner... Besides, renewables are Rich Person power sources, not poor. Solar is ludicrously expensive for actual power generation, though useful enough for subsidiary stuff like hot water heating. So, the US has basically made it impossible for Iran to develop enough power generation by conventional means and is now complaining that they're gone nuclear. But more importantly, and Walsie this is where you are mistaken, is that the UN sanctions have had an undeniable negative impact on there economy. The UN sanctions have effected there currency, oil exports and all other exports. They have had assets frozen and they couldn't access there international funds in overseas banks. These steps would bring any country to its knees. I'm not saying Iran out of the goodness of there heart has decided that they want to abandon the development of nuclear technology for military reasons ( if this indeed was there intention) but they have realized they cannot sustain the financial consequences of the sanctions. I think people keep underestimating how much sanctions had contributed towards the more reconciliatory attitude from Iran, this is something we should be celebrating as it means less chance of military action which would just further destabilize the whole region

No idea. What's wrong with your donkey?

Sorry if I misunderstood you, no hard feelings

This is one of the points I wanted to raise. I will watch the Winter Olympics because there is a greater good here but I am generally just appalled with the Russian social conditions and how minority groups are treated and how Putin runs his government. Some of the issues for me include the unacceptable rise and legislation of homophobia the working conditions of migrant workers getting the Olympics ready Russian disinterest in accepting American help with preventing any terrorist attacks. I know this is a point around pride but they should have no issue with accepting unconditional help that may prevent loss of life

So is north Korea It's not about who is more stable or less, its about preventing the spread of nuclear weapons everywhere.(and reducing the stocks that we already have) Everyone want them, especially the "underdogs", if Iran get them its only a matter of time until Turkey and Saudi get them(they are already thinking about it) etc etc etc Ahmadinejad?! don't tell me you buy this whole Rouhani the liberal crap. Iran has been misconducting well before Ahmadinejad read this The figure head change is purely political move, underneath it still the same supreme leader Ali Khamenei... Their policies hasn't been changed. They still playing for time hoping that with time public relations will allow them to pass the sanctions and keep at what they do. You've raised some good points but we differ on Iran's international intentions. I believe that they want sanctions lifted and they want to be part of the international community again. In order to do this they are prepared to make serious concessions around there nuclear program, these concessions are tangible and needed. Now they could be lying and planning to somehow develop nuclear weapons, not nuclear technology needed for a source of energy, but we will have to wait and see.

We need more people like you on these forums, BruceVC! I really think this is a great candidate for the post of the year! This is exactly how I feel. That's a nice thing to say, thanks Indira I also want to say you haven't typically been involved in too many complex Off Topic discussions and I'm really enjoying your perspective and insight into various topics. Keep up the good work.

I've heard some stories about South Africa, particularly the ones about the myth of virgin blood being the cure for aids and what ensued after. Not pleasant tales. I do realize that sexism, discrimination, and aggression towards women exists but there is a world of difference between some third world country village where the chief orders the rape of woman and someone saying that Dragon's Crown is bad cause is sexist. The thing about the changes is that some of those things are part of the visual style of the game, Frazetta created a style that explored sex and fantasy; what if he had compromised his vision to quell malcontents? There is a difference between art and taste which is something that a lot of people have trouble separating. PS; you seem to like a lot of posts from this thread and from both sides of the argument. What gives man, pick a side? Well I try to not let emotion, or the fact I stand by what I say, cloud my recognition of a valid point even if that person typically disagrees with the sentiment of what I believe

Mor I have been following this story for a while now and the one point that I missed through the years about Iran's right to develop peaceful nuclear technology is that they genuinely feel that they haven't been treated fairly by the international community. There are countries much more unstable than them like Pakistan and NK and they have nuclear technology and weapons. So why can't they be allowed to get this technology? Now I know under Ahmadinejad Iran made several statements and committed several deeds that were very concerning but I really feel the country is following a more liberal and reasonable direction under Rouhani. So we need to give them the benefit of the doubt, we don't really have a choice as the USA is not going to go the military route unless all options are exhausted. And we are seeing Iran making the agreed on changes to there nuclear program so its looking good

I can't tell but from your tone it seems that I'm getting a rise out of you, I assure that is not my intention and I apologize. If what I understand from your post is right then we should analyze the context of modern feminist philosophy which can be summarized as: Women are being oppressed by a system that devalues them while simultaneously promoting aggression towards them (aka. the Patriarchy, rape Culture). Even if you ignore the fact that those two concepts could be the result of a conspiracy nut delusions, those notions have an effect of radicalizing feminists who take the concept to heart. I can't take someone who presents those concepts as self evident proof of the oppression of women (which they aren't) seriously. The reason why I brought that picture and quote forward is because there is no solid evidence on either side that there is a conspiracy against them. So it amount to nothing more that opinions rather than facts. I have thought of the importance of a re-branding of feminism who don't subscribe to the same philosophy that those fringe elements; which it has somewhat occurred with the Sex Positive Feminists. Otherwise any genuinely rational idea that comes from it would be regarded as fruit of the poisonous tree and dismissed. I am totally OK with that, as I said before I believe that the industry should grow. It is just that I see that particular market heading in no direction since no one seems to know how to approach it, myself included. But as long as the rhetoric remains blaming publishers for targeting male demographics and shaming men for their enjoyment I doubt anyone is going to figure it out. Which is the problem with the whole affair, their rhetoric is confrontational and seeks to antagonize rather than cooperate and contribute to the growth of the industry. IMO this is due to the aformentioned concepts which create a divide between feminists and the systems that are perceived to oppress them. I just see a lot of people throwing that study as concrete proof of a female gaming audience which could turn out to be the new COD crowd; which is a mass of people that just buys a few games a year, or it could possibly be the result of an overlap in demographics. Either way it couldn't be replicated and it spawned a series of COD clones. The case could be that there are women who are active in social sites that enjoy playing those game while browsing but aren't necessarily interested in gaming. I don't require a study just proof that there is a demographic, which is hard to say since there hasn't been a game solely targeting women. Instead publishers opt for the token character as a means of attracting said group. Which is really counterproductive as it is the equivalent of asking for a seat at the table and instead getting scraps. I don't believe that a study that is directed specifically to figuring out the buying habits of female gamers counts as a defensive perpetuity, that's the study I would like to see. It would give a more clear direction on how to tap said market and in turn it would be proof that said market exists. That's a good post and I can appreciate the fact you have taken the time to articulate your point in detail. I agree with several things you've said But one thing you need to realize is that sexism and discrimination against women is not some fantasy made up by bored liberals, its real and exists all around us. Sometimes its surreptitious and underhanded but it is real. I can tell you stories about living in South Africa that will shock you You can often see the true views of people when it comes to discussions of social justice not so much by what they say but rather what they don't say. For me end of the day what I don't get is that you can make certain changes to some games without impacting the gaming experience, so if we know that some things people object to why not just make those changes? Now I'm not suggesting every change that every person demands should be considered but I think you get my point

Funny enough Malc but I've supported numerous KS that are your typical party based RPG where there are male and female characters But in most cases I won't support a KS that doesn't have some sort of female representation or is dismissive of social issues, for example a game that has homophobia or racist undertones. The good news is these games nowadays are few and far between as most publishing and development companies are aware of what many people expect or don't think is applicable. You probably think this is an extreme view but that's my stance on what games I'm prepared to support. Of course there are games where my view isn't relevant like RTS

Normally that would be a valid point accept for the fact that with stretch goals allowing the budget to reach double the original tier to allow some form of female representation I don't think that is applicable. In other words they have effectively raised enough money to create 2 games based on the original target, I fail to see how they can't incorporate a decent female footprint if the issue is just about resourcing?

Its not really that funny because its a game end of the day not a medieval simulator so the Developers are allowed to use artistic license in creating characters that people like to play

Guys I have a good idea, why don't they make the game with a female only protagonist who can be a bard or outlaw, or any other historically accurate profession? Then they make a stretch goal of 2-3 million to allow us to play as a male. This way we can see if the community wants proper gender representation. Now before you say " that won't work" think about all the social issues like discrimination that the female character will face apart from all the trials and tribulations that would be normal in a medieval setting Who is with me !!!!

Indira is really polite. You are coming across as an uniformed sexist, there is no reason that a company can't make a game where a women is an outlaw, mercenary or bard...or one of many other profession that existed in the medieval ages . But its really annoying to keep hearing people say "well we can't have a women character in a medieval game because that's unrealistic". If you actually want to learn something please read this link I posted earlier http://fozmeadows.wordpress.com/2012/12/08/psa-your-default-narrative-settings-are-not-apolitical/ I am not saying having women in 15th century is unrealistic, I am saying that having women blacksmithing and fighting bandits, soldiers and ploting with/against kings in armor during this period in central europe is plain stupid but thanks for whiteknighting (first time I am inpolite during this disscussion because you call me sexist for some unknown reason) Oh no you don't understand, I'm not whiteknighting. This is exactly what I think, it may be a language translation problem but your comments come across as dismissive and sexist Your first comment around this topic irritated me but I left it as I always seem to comment about these things and I didn't want to overdo it, you said "Women thing again even here? Really? Yeah you are all right, women in 15th century in central Europe were equal to man, right. Now lets talk about unicorns in space" Do you really think this comment cannot be seen in a sexist way?

Indira is really polite. You are coming across as an uniformed sexist, there is no reason that a company can't make a game where a women is an outlaw, mercenary or bard...or one of many other profession that existed in the medieval ages . But its really annoying to keep hearing people say "well we can't have a women character in a medieval game because that's unrealistic". If you actually want to learn something please read this link I posted earlier http://fozmeadows.wordpress.com/2012/12/08/psa-your-default-narrative-settings-are-not-apolitical/

You've raised some good points around the story and focus being split. I can see you mean. And that could dilute overall gaming experience I would prefer then that they let you choose male or female right from the beginning and they use that extra money to change certain aspects of the story and the reaction you get from people.