BruceVC

Hi Hiro I don't understand your post or see how it is relevant to the case for Romance, are you now saying you want Romance in PoE or you only want Romance if our characters are Smurfs? Maybe you could start a thread raising the point "will Smurfs be a race choice" ....I will support you if you make a compelling argument but it will really have to be good as I feel the inclusion of Smurfs will be incongruous to a fantasy setting. Can you explain your point as the analogy is lost on me

For Russia it was a safe bet from the start. Any effective measure I can think off by the EU/US will cause Russia to clamp on EU gas supply or escalate by creating a larger breakaway state in East Ukraine, and no one is going to start a war over Ukraine... Which is why I avoided posting this, so we don't get side tracked, into more westren crap, but now that it is obvious here: With that said , I don't think that Obama statement that there will be consequences to Russia action is funny and some fancy Nato crap or added isolation to that of Syria. Funny enough the EU is putting more pressure on Russia with there latest statement than I expected. Even though the Crimean referendum may seem plausible as a way to end the discussion around " who should Crimea belong to" I don't think the main Western countries or the USA will accept that, so that means ultimately in this case it won't be a viable option.

Venezuela has been facing serious structural economic problems for a while now. The anti-western rhetoric worked to pacify people as as excuse to address the deteriorating economy under Chavez but Maduro just doesn't have the same charisma and isn't as popular. Maduro is trying the old and tired " the protests and instability are caused by Western powers, our country is fine" ..but most Venezuelans don't believe this and want ecomonic and political transformance

Kind of funny coming from you. But anyway, whether these supposed shills are paid for one site or a bundle, this place is a worthless objective for it. Not really, all my comments I can support with multiple sources and links

That statement alone should put to bed the debate around whether Obys opinion in this case is in anyway credible

What if your character was a ghost in the game, how would you feel than about running through NPC's

That made me laugh, I'm going to start using that term

I don't know about that, can we not say both games look equally entertaining?

Wow that trailer looked amazing, I'm so excited about this game

What I think on the subject doesn't matter too much at this point in regards to PoE, but I will say in general that romance in a game is not a black and white issue for me. If this thread is moved out of the PoE forum I'll debate the pros and cons of romance in a game with you. But so long as this thread is here, I'll lobby to have it moved out, as I would any other thread that won't die that has little to nothing to do with PoE. We may as well be discussing the merits of making PoE a POV game instead of isometric, that's how much this subject really doesn't belong in this forum at this point. I actually wonder why the mods haven't moved it out, they are usually overactive in my opinion in other matters, though perhaps the only ones paying attention here are pro-romance. Those are good points but can you say with certainty there won't be Romance in PoE 2, until Obsidian confirms this the discussion is surly relevant on these forums?

Okay great idea, but don't you think that a person can enjoy PoE even if there isn't Romance? Surly thats possible .... Possible sure. But one wonders when this thread and others concerning the topic are still going on despite the announcement there will be no romance. You don't see similar threads on subjects like PoE on the console or PoE as a 3D game despite some on these forums having wanting them in the past. They generally accept what they want isn't going to be in the game after being told so and move on, but not many of those in favor of romance. Why the romance folks can't let this subject die is beyond me. Swallow the loss and wait for PoE2 is what should be done, not clutter up this forum with the banality of this thread. This thread really belongs in Computer and Console though as it has little to nothing to do with PoE at this point. Sounds like you are firmly in the anti-romance camp...it doesn't seem like you think Romance should be in RPG?

Okay great idea, but don't you think that a person can enjoy PoE even if there isn't Romance? Surly thats possible ....

I'm surprised that any website can cause you to feel it's looking down on a particular group? Don't you think that you judging RPS, isn't this about the importance of free speech...shouldn't we just not have any opinions on how we feel about a particular website and there perspective? Or does ths only apply to our opinions on ..I don't know...lets say RPGCodex ( sorry Nonek I couldn't resist, you know I love you )

Ironically, it's precisely RPS' incessant white knighting that puts me off more than anything else. I can usually put up with it (read: skim over it as best I can) because I enjoy their cheesy puns and they do have insightful things to say from time to time. Like with any other reviewers, we don't always (or even often) see eye to eye when it comes to taste in games or things that nag us and things we let go, but that's all part of different people having different opinions, and it's not enough to make me stop reading their work. I don't think I've ever truly felt like they had an agenda... Well, except for their clear desire to score moral justice crusader brownie points. Come now Keyrock lets be resonable, there are dozens of gaming websites that don't care about social justice. Surly we aren't going to judge RPS because they do and they are prepared to admit this? I wish more gaming websites had there perpsective but sadly there aren't.

Rock, Paper, Shotgun has me a little worried: I've been worried about RPS for a while. In all seriousness they're at about Kotaku level now, their concerns can be safely ignored. And, of course, their review of FalloutNV was pretty infamous- they just don't like Obsidian much. Some of their guest contributors are good though, and Tim Stone is, as always, awesome. Don't forget the important role that RPS plays in raising issues of social justice. There reviews may be debatably questionable but they more than make up for it with there awareness campaigns around certain issues

I said nothing about Russian invasion. But you are basically acting like the western media. "Lets ignore everything wrong in Ukraine and talk about Putin instead." I think I already explained that the main Western international News Channels have explained both sides of this crisis. What news channels do you watch? Also its obvious that Russia believes that Crimea is part of Russia, which is blantantly obvious its not. Crimea is part of Ukraine. But to be honest I can see the vote they will have to decide where Crimea should belong being the best way to decide where Crimea should be part of. It will be unfair and a bullying tactic from Russia but we may have to just accept that in the interest of regional peace

Hi again Bruce. Not being unfair at all. Perhaps if you need to stop white knighting and making stuff up? Actually go and read what he has written? Serious question. Can you stop making stuff up Bruce? because you're doing it now. He also said the against crowd has made 'reasonable points' and acknowledged this and now flipped flopped and now he's saying, he can't see any points on the against argument. He's admitted he doesn't know of any on the against side he would agree with. Total contradiction. And how about you being objective? You say these debates could do with some healthy objectivity. This is lacking primarily from the pro-romance position. Lephys is a case in point. And so are you. You should take some of your own advice about one's perspective. And thank you for confirming your bias with Lephy's view point. Perhaps you need to have an open mind when debating with people. In fact, your whole post is one giant troll and flame bait. Wow, so much for the pleasantries. I was enjoying the cordial nature of our responses I see you playing the infamous "Troll card". Don't you ever get tired of using that as a reaponse to someones opinion when you have nothing constructive to say? Apparently not

While RT can be bias and propagandic it is better than most, and there are certainly more bias and propagandic news channels out there. RT is certainly better than any of the major networks in the U.S. and the BBC in regards to telling it like it is. Do they ignore some of Russia's BS? Of course they do, but they don't ignore the U.S./U.K./et al's BS anywhere near as much as the BBC, CNN, FOX, CBS, ABC, NBC, MSNBC, et al. do. It's a sad sad state of journalistic affairs when one does have to turn to a network like RT to get better coverage of some issues than you'll find on their competition. It says more about the other networks than it does RT that RT has the viewership and guests that it does have. The same could be said of AlJazeera and PressTV. Really, if you're of the mind that the BBC or CNN is less bias than RT I'd say you've bought a bit too much into their propaganda and biased reporting. And it actually has happened at CNN. Lou Dobbs left years ago for similar reasons to what Liz mentions in her resignation, however he did do it a bit more professionally than she did. I'm sure it's happened at BBC as well though I don't follow that news source quite as much. I personally know a number of folks working at the various big networks in the US (emmy winners even) and have been behind the scenes quite a bit, and can tell you that folks resign all the time (and are fired) at major networks and newspapers believe it or not for similar reasons as what Liz stated (in essence their ethics are compromised). It's just relatively rare that it's done on air and by one of the talking heads (usually it's behind the camera folks and producers as they're generally the ones fighting to put the unbiased story on air, not the person actually saying the words (those folks are usually the kind of folks that will say anything)). The news business is a very unethical business overall. The biased story is the norm not the exception, and journalistic integrity isn't common, especially on television news. A good question to always ask oneself about any news story on any of the networks is 'Why am I being shown this?'. The answer to that question is often not the one your average viewer thinks it is. In general news networks hire folks who will say what they want them to say, so the conflict of interest or beliefs in the TV personality isn't common, but it's not rare either. You've raised some good points but on the topic of CNN, Sky and BBC being biased let me say this I watch these channels primarily and from watching these I know Crimea is populated primarily by people who are Russian speaking and have political allegiances to Russia Russia considers Crimea to be important due to its historical and geographical significance Any sanctions against Russia will hurt the West as well There will be no military action against Russia The West wants dialog to end the crisis I don't know about you but that presenting of the news seems objective and reasonable to me? Can RT claim the same?

Hi again Hiro I think you being unfair to Lephys or rather his posting style, just because a person acknowledges another point or says " I can see what you are saying " that doesn't mean he is flip-flopping or contradicting his original position. Personally I think some of these debates could do with some healthy objectivity. I see this lacking primarily from the anti-romance position. But I don't want to stifle debate in any regard or suggest people shouldn't post what they feel, I just think we should engage in debate without the view of intransigence. Also I would disagree with Lephys if I felt was wrong, but I just find myself aligned to his general sentiment. Remember a debate is greater than one persons perspective. Often we can learn a new opinion if we just go into the debate with an open mind.

Neat idea, and I'll keep it in mind, but I'm going to wait to gain some assurance that he won't choke to death trying to eat the dice before getting him started on the arrpeegees. Maybe when he turns 25. Congrats Enoch on the birth of mini-Encoh

I don't know. Back in the day, journalists had a responsibility not only to convey facts, but also as a sort of cultural beacon people could look at for honest assessment and guidance. If she really believes RT is a propaganda outlet for the Kremlin and this is incompatible with her dignity as a journalist, she did the right thing by making her resignation a public matter, in my eyes. Impossible to know whether she has something better lined up (which would diminish the value of the act) or if the real reasons are what she stated, but no reason to assume they are not. I wish this sort of thing happened more often, to be honest. RT is the most biased and propaganda driven news channel I have ever watched, its a joke actually. I don't blame her. I think her motives were also driven by sensationalism but that doesn't mean she didn't make the right decision around her personal ethics. I wonder where she will end up? This wouldn't happen on CNN or BBC because there news presenters don't have such a fundemental disgareement with how the news channels operate and how they present the news

Good post, I have made similar points before and the response from certain anti-romancers is a deep psychological analysis of the difference between violence in video games and RPG Romance, it never makes sense to me. For me it seems hypocritical that it is acceptable for certain people to discuss and want magic, complex quests, realistic armour, deep lore, varied interaction with party members, loads of monsters, deities and demigods, a choice of classes and unique races but the consideration of Romance is anathema? It just seems selective around what constitutes a meaningful RPG experience...

Hi Hiro I don't know but Lephys makes a lot of sense from where I'm sitting? I have to be honest but sometimes I wonder if you anti-romancers don't agree with this logic only because traditionally you always debate with him? In other words even if Lephys is right ...you still won't acknowledged it. Its worth considering...you and others may be doing this subconsciously And come on you can't compare him to Volo.,..Volo makes no sense 99 % of the time and is more interested in absurd and controversial comments than real debate

I haven't played E2 yet but I can imagine what you are saying and I would also find that unrealistic.

Okay..I'm not sure now if that adds or detracts from the Romance case ?