BruceVC

That's a very good post and you make some relevant points And you have made me realize something else, I remember very few characters in my party through the various RPG I have played but I do remember the characters I shared Romance with. So for me another benefit around Romance is the obvious deeper interaction you have with people and this allows you to not just remember them as faceless people in your party but someone of significance in your memory of the game. This is a very valid observation

I did know you were joking and it was no problem at all. I joke with people as well and I believe that if you are going to do that you must be prepared to take it. Also we sometimes engage in discussions that get heated and emotional as people take there views seriously. I think that is all part of what constitutes healthy and lively debate and is not Trolling by any means

I've been on the internet since the early 90s is some form or fashion. My experience is that it really hasn't changed much in terms of the pro-social behavior, the anti-social behavior and the strata between. I think it depends where you look, if you use the RPGCodex forums as your benchmark then I agree we aren't seeing much progress around how people post and what they are prepared to say. But if you take sites like RPS they take the issue of sexism and the objectification of women in games very seriously. I would say it would be difficult to argue that in the last few years there hasn't generally been more of a raised awareness around issues of Internet anti-social behaviour and social justice.

I've heard this before that people nowadays are more serious and can't take a joke. That may be so or it may be the new online reality we live in where people are less tolerant of anti-social Internet behaviour or people that think its funny to be offensive or for example are dismissive of issues around equality

Excellent series and I am excited to start watching Season 2, thanks for the reminder

I'm rooting for anyone to beat them. The tears flowing here would be awesome. You want your own country to be beaten? Pretty much, yes. Wow the depths of your patriotism never ceases to amaze me Malc But if you don't mind me asking why would you not support your own country?

Very true

My issue with Trolling is more the indifference that we see from people in addressing it. So whenever someone is Trolling the typical reaction is " he is Trolling him, ignore him". There isn't really an attempt to condemn it or to take the person on, so now we know what type of personality defines a Troll that's an important step in people not just ignoring it but dealing with it That's the thing, though, for any forum member other than moderators the proper response is ignoring the troll, outwardly, anyway. Reporting the troll to the moderators via report button is also proper, though no one will outwardly ever see that (other than the moderators). Trolls generally crave attention. Responding to them is giving them exactly what they want, especially if the response is a negative one. That's a good point and I can see the strategy that you referring to. Also as you mentioned its the job of Moderators to take on a Troll, but then it becomes difficult because how do you really know when someone is trolling, I'm glad I'm not a Moderator

Interesting, I don't think I've intentionally ever really tried to reach out to a troll. That's something I may attempt in the future. I prefer to spend time in debates with people that actually enjoy the principles of discussion

That's a good question and one I'm glad you asked ( because most of the time I hate making a point where I offer too much information ) My issue with Trolling is more the indifference that we see from people in addressing it. So whenever someone is Trolling the typical reaction is " he is Trolling him, ignore him". There isn't really an attempt to condemn it or to take the person on, so now we know what type of personality defines a Troll that's an important step in people not just ignoring it but dealing with it So these mysterious people are anyone who allows a Troll to post what he wants with impunity. We don't see this typically on these forums but I have experienced gratuitous and unchallenged Trolling on other forums

That's an accurate and fair assessment of the NWN2 trilogy, nice post. And the dinosaurs were cool

Melk you have a good knowledge of games. I would love to do a survey on these forums to see who has played the most games in there gaming career and who has the broadest knowledge of different types of games. Of course it would be impossible to do because of all the variables but it would interesting to see

I just changed my password too, thanks Gorth

But maybe if people understood the personality traits of what constitutes a Troll they wouldn't be so keen to think that Trolling is okay. A Troll is basically someone who has several dysfunctional mental traits. Its something I would think people would want to change urgently and the article is relevant because its based on a real study and empirical evidence and not just what people think. So even though we all "know" what a Troll is this article substantiates our views

Yeah, I've got SoZ but haven't had the time to get past the party creation bit yet, didn't realise the strategic element was that strong. You've bumped it up my list to finally play. It starts out pretty cool, but ends up being very broken by the end game. Nah, that's not true. Its a good RPG, not excellent but good, and it has a very unique map system that spawns events and random monsters that is great fun. If you haven't played it yet you must

That was quite funny

s Monte lets not debate semantics around this issue, I think we are all in agreement on what the definition of a modern day Troll is? " A person who makes comments to upset people or get an emotional response but has no interest in really discussing topics or being constructive " I'm surprised no one has said " wow BruceVC that's an accurate description of a Troll...you are really insightful around this topic "

You made a very complicated question quite simple and said it in a way that shouldn't offend or confuse anyone but is very true, nice one Let it go people. It is no longer a debate. No matter what is said, no matter what polls are shown, no matter how much you moan, their is no romance in PoE. but..but..."hope springs eternal in the human breast"

I have to be honest, I've also never heard of it ?

I think the fact that you created a new thread instead of posting this in the current romance thread shows you wanted people to respond to it and why it didn't go into obscurity. You even said it here that you felt no one would have read it in the other thread. I can guarantee you this sort of post would have been read and replies would have ensued. Like waving a red flag to of a bull. I have to question why anyone would create another romance thread when it would just rile up the forum even more, which it did. If this was posted in the other romance thread, we would have seen the other thread locked by now (due to number of pages and this science topic) and this would have all blown over. While your OP may not have been a troll, It's very close to a troll post and one or two replies from yourself have been trolls when good replies have been given to you. If you're going to use a For and Against argument and bring science into it, you have to use it for both sides of the argument. Anyway, I've said enough. This is my last post on the matter and I'm out of here. I think some of what you said is unfair considering the several negative responses Nano has received, I feel he has been treated harshly. By your logic I could say " why don't anti-romance people leave this post alone and only post how much they dislike Romance in the other thread ? " Considering the fact there is a relatively strong movement of promancers who are active on these forums I can't see how a post discussing the benefits of Romance is inciting people to be critical of Romance? Especially when we now know there won't be Romance in PoE, let us have our discussions without it being seen as "waving a red flag in front of a bull "

I'm rooting for anyone to beat them. The tears flowing here would be awesome. You want your own country to be beaten?

I'm envious of people who are so skilled at DIY, nice one

You made a very complicated question quite simple and said it in a way that shouldn't offend or confuse anyone but is very true, nice one

So you take the parts where I say favorable things to your position and summarily ignore the actual criticism I mixed in, in hopes that you'd be more receptive to it if I put it nicely? No wonder you're still going at this. There's no way to get through that wall of denial, is there? Lurky you know I like you and I should have also added to my post that I apologize for jumping to some unfair conclusions around what you said But you must be missing something with my point, I know that Romance in RPG works and is becoming more and more mainstream in the games I play. I know I'm right, you should be trying to blow through that wall of denial that the the anti-romance army has built. That's your enemy , there is no denial on our side. We merely relay the facts on ways to enhance any RPG experience in a game.

I never said that all people in the BSN are like that. Of course there are many sane individuals in there who are not comparable to the Tali Sweat poster, otherwise the forums themselves would have imploded long ago (though I'd like to mention that the Mass Effect romance subforum got so out of hand that it did get close to imploding, and mods closed it down for that reason, so food for thought). The point is that some people like that can be found there, in opposition to the majority of the Internet who has no such individuals posting that kind of content so openly. The fact that the BSN can be grounds for that kind of content, the fact that it has an ambient where that kind of thing is merely "an extreme example" and not a complete deviation of the standard shunned by the rest of the community is what makes it noteworthy, and that is why it's mentioned so many times. I won't deny that there are people who do, indeed, use the infamous Tali Sweat post with the purpose you stated. Many of them have done so in these forums in the past. But that is not the purpose I intended, and I think I made that clear in my post: I brought up that example mainly because of the content of that post, not because of what it represented. I mentioned what it represented merely to show why it was rather famous and people had brought it up. You're right to say that some of its fame is undeserved, but you can't deny that there is a kernel of truth in it, either. Incidentally, I don't condone the pointing and mocking that some people have done of the people who had their hopes of romance dashed, either. I do believe that some promancers have been very blind to the reality, keeping unrealistic expectations and ignoring all the pointers indicating that what you wanted was never going to happen, but some of the comments thrown at you could be considered to be kind of cruel (or at least unsporting), considering that you're probably still feeling hurt at the news. I'd give them a spanking for not being nice, but alas, I'm not their mother That's a good post and most of it I agree with