BruceVC

Both very funny answers, but seriously what did you use to talk about ?

I have to be honest I am very interested in this thread because you guys all seem genuinely fond of each other and its great to see What did you use to discuss back in the day? What were the pertinent discussions, was it about gaming, social justice issues, politics..the reason I ask is I am fascinated by what was possibly one of the salient reasons for your kinship

That frog is quite cute

In a game there is a huge difference between highlighting the horrors of rape during war and giving your character the ability to rape people because "rape is realistic". Both can be demonstrated differently and only the former would make most people feel uncomfortable This is out of the question. The former will never happen. However I can not believe that the later done right will people not uncomfortable. Of course not everyone but the ones who actually identify with characters and their stories during a game. When these situations occur even in movies it is not about the victim but rather a symbol how bad or terrible the antagonist is. But what if you go the different route and focus on the victim and his struggle and not about the crime itself. Done right could this be very powerful. My bad, I meant to say "only the latter would make people feel uncomfortable"

In a game there is a huge difference between highlighting the horrors of rape during war and giving your character the ability to rape people because "rape is realistic". Both can be demonstrated differently and only the former would make most people feel uncomfortable

Pray tell what does your wardrobe look like now ?

Well I have say that is one of the few really good examples I have heard of how you could incorporate the issue of rape into an RPG without it making most people feel uncomfortable but having an emotional impact. Good post

That list of games is almost exactly what I'll be playing

. Of course fun is also important but if I want to relax I rather play a mindless jump and run or indy game. Story heavy heavy games are great for also showing a different vibe in games. Same goes for movies or TV series. Why do so many people watch stuff like Walking dead or Game of Thrones? Not because it is cool but because they want emotion and literally feel bad. It is part of human nature. I don't think people watch a series like Game of Thrones to feel bad, I don't think that's a valid reason for most people. They watch the series because its an exciting and epic fantasy saga where we become attached to various characters and the story. And we want to see how the various plots develop. These are positive and typical reasons why people generally follow popular genres like fantasy. But I don't get why you would feel bad by watching Game of Thrones?

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/06/17/torment-tides-of-numenera-interview-1/#more-213605 For those that aren't familiar with the some of the important game design decisions around the new Torment game here is the first part of a detailed interview from RPS

am not certain who this is directed at, but we will note that there is valid reasons for including rape and sexual assaults in stories. rape is violent and ugly. other than a handful of extreme twisted persons, and perhaps those who like japanese pr0n manga, people understand that rape is evil. is one o' those few acts that ain't subject to moral relativism. the most depraved and irredeemable villains 'mongst us has had a mother or sister. as such, it takes very little empathy to be understanding that forced sex is a brutal and dehumanizing act. perhaps modern medias has ruined us all a bit. heck, look at crpgs and see that our heroic characters is mass murderers who could stack up their copses high 'nuff to challenge nimrod's tower. thieves and arsonists is as likely to be good guys as bad in our games. but rape is different. rape is evil, and so little is these days. yeah, there is some broken children on this board who might argue for rape as something other than vile and ugly, but do you think it is even remote possible that obsidian developers would follow such a lead? HA! Good Fun! Gromnir what are saying? Do you mean there is no point discussing our utter contempt for topics like including rape in the game because Obsidian will never include them in the game anyway? Oh and in almost cases rape is not about sex but rather a form of power over women, this is directed at anyone who has the absurd idea that rape is about sex

As long as it comes out, I'm okay. My sentiments exactly, I'm not concerned about any delay that the developers feel they need. At least this way we won't hear the famous " we had to release the game in the state its in due to pressures and expectations from Publishers who funded this game so we had no choice"

As kirottu pointed out earlier in this thread, spiders aren't insects! :D Nah, they are all from the same family... critters that need to be squashed Why squish spiders? They're hunters and eat insects -including ones you don't want in your house. You really should take them outside if possible* (and I know sometimes it isn't possible). I'd much rather have some good spiders around the house than a lot of other insects. Pretty much the only bugs that are "squish on sight" to me are the parasitic (fleas, ticks, mosquitoes, etc) and roaches inside a house (roaches that don't live in houses are okay). *probably helps there isn't a high population of spiders that can kill or seriously damage humans where I live. I wouldn't touch a spider in Australia without a scientist to confirm what the heck I was dealing with. Yeah, I've started taking spiders outside nowadays. I realize there role in the ecosystem

As kirottu pointed out earlier in this thread, spiders aren't insects! :D Nah, they are all from the same family... critters that need to be squashed

Am I only one that doesn't find any insect cute or attractive on any level? ( Spiders are undoubtedly my worst.. I suffer from a mild form of arachnophobia )

But female gamers didn't have a choice so I don't see the relevance of your post to the modern campaign of gender equality in games? Actually I would argue this should be a social justice consideration, not an issue. More discussion and awareness gets raised this way

I concur sir, I concur

That's a nice story. Can you share what game you train them with and also isn't Sunny too old to be trained? I thought you had to train a dog from the puppy stage or the training isn't effective so I am keen to understand how you train your dogs.

Jadedmeister you are really weird. I like you

Holy Smoke Barti !!!! That's hectic, do you think a virus caused it? Make sure you do a full scan and confirm your definitions are updated I don't understand. A virus that effects your system can cause major problems, you need to update your anti-virus software and run full scan...I'm worried Barti..I'm worried about other hidden issues Bruce, your messages are sometimes hard to decrypt. Apologies, I'll try to be more clear next time

Holy Smoke Barti !!!! That's hectic, do you think a virus caused it? Make sure you do a full scan and confirm your definitions are updated I don't understand. A virus that effects your system can cause major problems, you need to update your anti-virus software and run full scan...I'm worried Barti..I'm worried about other hidden issues

I have an exciting weekend planned, today I'm going for lunch at a restaurant called Eisbein and Co which specializes in, yes you guessed it, Eisbein and then tonight we off to the Armin Van Buuren dance event which is going to be epic The good news is that Monday is a public holiday in South Africa so I will have ample time to relax after the all night festivities http://bpmmag.co.za/news/armin-van-buuren-south-africa-one-night/

Every movement you mention in your post to Mamoulian had a clear purpose in mind, they weren't after abstractions they had a goal in mind. Gathering support was crucial to reaching that goal, but gathering support without a clear goal is just a rabble. That's what most people see when they look at SJW; rabblerousers and malcontents who rage towards established notions simply because they think theirs are better. Had they actually used all that publicity to gain some traction on a cause they might had gotten somewhere, yet it seems only the opportunistic made use of the movement's for their own benefit. I have said this before; if they asked for more games geared towards women rather than criticizing (an inherently hostile act) games that are not, they'd have less infamy and probably at the very least a few games exclusively for them. As for my personal opinion on it: I'm currently in debt from one of those college game programs that are nothing more than a con,I 'm taking a series of menial 3D related freelance jobs because there are very few openings in the game industry and it is thought to get into(they ask for experience you cannot get without working in the industry). On my free time I get to work on a game i'm currently trying to develop with some off my former classmates(since they're in the same situation). For years I heard about big name publishers terrible working conditions that drove all the talent away, I saw less game being made because of bloated budgets, corporate practices that were clearly driving the industry to the ground. So my opinion about Feminism complaining about women being misrepresent is simply this:"**** them! You can come and suffer through all this and then make the ****ing game you want. I ain't going through all this **** to please you. Because you clearly didn't give two ****s about game developers before; which I don't have a problem with, they free to do as their like. But now that you want something you're all complain about how it should be given to you. **** those spoiled brats and their entitlement issues!" Sorry about the rant and the cursing, I really needed to get that off my chest and is in no way directed to you and only somewhat related to the topic but it is where I stand. You make some good points based on your personal experiences. And from your perspective and how you have explained what you mean I can't disagree with what you are saying. So that's a good post as I do think the broader point of what you are saying is valid in certain cases and that is "you can't expect someone to be concerned about all aspects of inclusivity when they battling just to get a there initial product off the ground due to the costs and logistics. There are other priorities" The only consideration is a large, established and well resourced company like Ubisoft should be more concerned and want to address perceptions around there games and the reasons they give for certain decisions?

I'm not being cynical, I am just saying what I've observed. Journalist very clearly had something to said about the lack of women in AC or otherwise the question would had never been asked that prompted Ubisoft's response that has caused so much uproar. They could had simply acted maturely about it and never outright claim that Ubisoft is lying, normally that is not something a respectable journalist would do without concrete proof.(but then again games journalism isn't really respectable or journalism) As for the effectiveness of raising issues it can be summarize as this: "If I pretend to give a **** would you shut up?", that's the level of commitment they've gotten from publishers. You've annoyed them into acknowledging you, congratulations all around. As for what they get more right than wrong, all theories sound right until proven. No of course not, I don't want you to say something that you don't believe For me the ideal situation would be for people on these forums to take on objective position on a particular issue, listen to the facts and then decide if its a valid concern that needs to be condemned. That's all anyone can ask or really expect. My problem is I feel some people immediately switch off when a SJ is discussed without even considering if it may be relevant

Yeah, the outrage here is the way Ubisoft shot themselves in the foot and then just continued to saw off the leg. But hey, it's easier to just say "women should just shut the f**** up", so here we are. I'm not saying in any way, shape, or form that is what you have been saying, Calax; but the general message has been distorted in order to just simply rag on them females. OTOH, I get the feeling that journalist were out for blood after seeing that "AC: Unity didn't have no women"(something that could easily be patched in or given as a free DLC) and decided to make them suffer for it. Quite frankly this whole thing (the entire SJW crusade) is just childish and counterproductive, they been at it for years and all they've got to show for it is how many people they've grieved. Or how many grandstanding praise was given for little to nothing done. @ Orog Your cynicism makes me laugh Personally for me if I thought raising issues of SJ was pointless I would stop doing it. But I only see the awareness increasing and companies taking considerations like inclusivity more seriously. Yes I agree sometimes I know my intentions are misplaced but I think the greater cause of SJ gets more things right than wrong Sorry to tell you, but it is in Human nature, that the more you are pointing about some problem, the more they get annoyed when they hear/read about it and just start to completely ignore it... If you want to make people aware, you should be only raising issues about the most serious problems. If you starts to raise issue about it every day, the common populace just stops reading/hearing to you, because their short attention spam will not allow them to focus not even on the biggest issues anymore... Unfortunately the journalist's way how to handle this issue is already for many people at the level, that if there is more negative SJ backlash about content, the more likely they are to purchase that content. We have one proverb in my country: "Priveľa všetkého škodí." (Too much of everything is harmful.) And I think, people in other countries should take an advice from this proverb as well. I hear what you are saying but I have to disagree as the historical facts don't reflect what you are saying. For example look at social justice movements in the past like giving women the vote, the civil rights movement in the USA or Apartheid in South Africa it was only the constant awareness and campaigns that various groups supported that led to the changes in all these types of social injustice And yes I know we are talking about games but on the issue of inclusivity the principle is the same