BruceVC

Well you admitted that no one has convinced you over the last 2 years. And there's been very good points and arguments raised for no romance in those 2 years. You also say it's 'unlikely' and will be a hard sell for anyone to convince you. Straight away you're already in defensive mode against those who would argue for no romance. I think it's important in any discussion to be honest with your fellow posters on one's stance on particular subjects. If you have someone who's dug their heels in for 2 years dismissing the points others have raised in that time, and now saying to posters it's unlikely you're going to convince me and you have to do a hard sell, then that shows your prejudice and bias. That's not exaggeration at all. Sorry Hiro but I obviously can't get you to understand my point anymore than I have explained. I am at a loss on how to proceed. I'll say this one more time, I am not bias or defensive. I am just not convinced by all the arguments that Romance shouldn't be part of an RPG Sadly no, but we can hope and still discuss Romance so hopefully they will be in PoE 2

Perhaps cutting the hyperbole Bruce and the discussion can flow a lot better and it wouldn't need to go off topic. And there's topics on this forum where hyperbole isn't used and discussions do flow better. You know that. And using it just because others do doesn't help your argument. So in other words, it would be next to impossible to convince you which comes back to your original statement. And now you admit no one on these boards over the last two years has convinced you otherwise. One minute you're agreeing with Lephys that you're exaggerating and now you're saying no one has convinced you over the last two years and it will be a tough sell for anyone to do so. It doesn't appear to be exaggeration or hyperbole after all with your statement, but rather truth. Don't get confused by someone who exaggerates a general point to someone who exaggerates a fact. They are totally different For example if I say " no one has convinced me " doesn't mean no one can convince me. This is not the same as me saying "all Romance is bad ". This is very subjective as end of the day this boils down to a personal preference around how you feel about Romance and there current implementation in RPG

Nope they speak Austrian?

No, I'm going to work shortly, I'm just having some fun

Not German? Not German? Wow my friend they say Americans are bad at geography but that's an egregious mistake even by those standards. Iceland isn't part of Germany, and neither is Austria

So you agree with Lephys that you were exaggerating. tsk tsk. Leaving aside games like IWD where your companions are generated by yourself. Lets talk about rpgs with companions that are already in the game. Do you stand by your position that no one on this board has convinced you of the validity of not having romances in rpgs, having given every possible reason why they feel romances shouldn't be in the game? Also, could anyone convince you with a valid reason you would accept that a rpg with companions already in the game would benefit without romances? Hyperbole is common on these forums, you know that Yes it may be possible, its just unlikely you will convince me that a game without Romance is better than a game with Romance But maybe I need to clarify something important. I am hugely supportive of party interaction and getting to know your party members and what motivates them And for me Romance is just a natural extension of this party interaction. So you would have to convince me that interacting with your party members in a RPG is a bad idea or bad game design before I will admit Romance is a bad concept. And that's going to be a very tough sale

Have you tried the IWD NPC-Mod? Limited in scope (only one possible party, with a couple of class options) - but includes romance (as well as character development for the rest of the party too) Sounds good But what about the fact the characters are all custom created, does the Mod add personalities to your party?

Good questions. I am very supportive of inclusivity in Romance options so there should be bisexual, straight and gay options if possible. And of course interracial relationships would be provided. But I don't think interracial Romance is even an issue anymore? But not very character can be Romanced by every person. Some need to be exclusive to a certain group. For example Viconia is the option for a straight male Romance

I've got one. It may be one you've heard already or maybe it's not, but it's especially relevant, currently. And it is an example of why my "objection" to romances goes beyond just my specific personal taste. A couple of days ago, Bioware held a DA:I Q&A session and followed it up with the release of 15 minutes of its E3 gameplay footage. It was a major info-dump. It covered almost every aspect of the game, and the gameplay footage focused almost exclusively on Exploration and combat. And what was the result? Romance discussion from the fans. And nothing else. Here we have a highly anticipated RPG and its developers are comprehensively attempting to present its features. In vain. The fan base, apparently, is not interested in the RPG's robust Combat system. Or its exploration. Or even its plot. They only care about the 8 romances that were announced. Something isn't right, here. Dating simulators and RPGs are NOT interchangeable terms. Thankfully, it's just Bioware and its hopeless BSN fanbase. But if this becomes industry norm... where nothing matters in an RPG but its romances, that will be the day there's no longer such a thing as RPGs. Do you want this? I don't. And that is why I rejoice whenever a major RPG developer like Obsidian releases an RPG with no romances. This is a good point raised and I can understand the frustration, here is an opportunity to discuss important game features and all people wanted to discuss was Romance. For me Romance is only an important part of party interaction. But there are many more important things in a RPG I don't want to defend what those promancers did, because for me it was a wasted opportunity, but all I'll say is this just goes to show how relevant Romance is for people. Wouldn't you rather have those types of vociferous fans buying your game and committed to the future of the franchise? Give them there own section on a forum and let them discuss what they want so they don't disrupt other conversations But by including Romance in an RPG you do get certain type of loyalty, you just need to manage it

How did you put it? Oh yes... this applies equally to people who don't like romance. How do you think it feels to have to raise valid points about the merits of romance in game design, only to have them disregard them all as invalid? For the record Lephys is 100 % correct about what I was meaning. I am not suggesting that there isn't a valid reason to not include Romance but when I hear the reasons from people they don't convince me. In other words the justification for Romance is always better than the reasons to leave them out But of course as I mentioned there are RPG that don't need Romance as they don't have any party interaction anyway, like IWD

I have heard every possible objection to Romance and none of them have convinced me with there validity The objections generally fall into a few camps, I'll discuss two "Its weird that people want Romance in a RPG...that's creepy. Get a RL girlfriend " or other similar inane criticismA persons walks a slippery slope when they suddenly decide what constitutes acceptable RPG content. Who is anyone to tell anyone else what defines there RPG journey? I can easily throw the same point at basically every other kind of component that people enjoy in RPG..."why do you want deep lore around cities and races...don't you know its just a game" or " but why is the armour design important...wow that's weird". Trust me anyone can make irrelevant comments around things that don't concern them. People shouldn't judge what others enjoy in an RPG I don't like Romance because the writing is juvenile and immature.I hate to point out the obvious but this is an RPG, not a Mills and Boone love story. You can't seriously expect a development company who would have talented writers to somehow inspire you with there interpretation of Romance. If you want something that realistic watch Gone with the Wind or Cold Mountain. Also most people who claim this is the reason they don't like Romance don't really like it anyway. So I doubt even a well written Romance would have them in the promancer army. So for me this is a spurious argument and is just an easy way to dismiss Romance Finally, and this is something I have never understood. All Romance should be optional. So if its optional why would you object to the implementation of it?

But how many people in Sweden, for example, know the runic alphabet?

Nope. Swedish and Norweigan you can guess your way through with varying success. Finish might as well be Russian. Denmark, Norway and Sweden historically traded a lot and was ruled by the same kings on occasion. Iceland was a Danish possession until they decided to mine their harbor and we decided not to bother contesting their rebellion. Interesting, so are you saying that Icelandic is like the old Danish language (because it was a Danish colony) which modern Danes don't understand? Yeah Icelandic is very similar to Old Norse. Guessing it was more similar to the Norwegian dialect though, as most of the settlers on Iceland were Norwegians. All Scandinavians spoke Old Norse during the 900-1300s, but Norway apparently had a different dialect than Sweden & Denmark: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Norse#mediaviewer/File:Old_norse,_ca_900.PNG But yeah, Norwegians/Danes/Swedes don't understand old norse at all, while Icelanders can read the old sagas in norse writing fine (as far as I know). Interesting post, thanks for sharing

Excellent thread My view on Romance has been more or less consistent from the beginning. Any RPG that allows you to get to know your party members should offer Romance, this leads to a more immersive RPG experience and a deeper and more memorable interaction with those party members You notice I said "Any RPG that allows you to get to know your party members" so this wouldn't apply to RPG like IWD I also think purely from a realism perspective if you are on some epic quest to save the world and you have people with you that are prepared to die for you and you are attracted to them why wouldn't Romance develop naturally? That what was unrealistic in Planescape, Romance never seemed to flourish with party members despite the possible attraction

Nope. Swedish and Norweigan you can guess your way through with varying success. Finish might as well be Russian. Denmark, Norway and Sweden historically traded a lot and was ruled by the same kings on occasion. Iceland was a Danish possession until they decided to mine their harbor and we decided not to bother contesting their rebellion. Interesting, so are you saying that Icelandic is like the old Danish language (because it was a Danish colony) which modern Danes don't understand?

Is Icelandic ( the language) similar to one of the 4 Scandinavian languages ( yes I'm including Finland)? Can a Dane for example understand someone from Iceland?

I know I can rely on you to ask the most important question " is there going to be Romance in PoE 2 "

Amazing pictures, well played Did you camp by yourself ? And if you did camp by yourself how long were you by yourself in the wilderness?

Volo I know you trust very few people on these forums but I also know you implicitly trust me, when have I ever lied to you about anything? This game is excellent, you need to buy this game or you will be denying yourself a fantastic RPG experience. Don't become one of those people who has to stand in the street and look through the window at everyone having a good meal in the restaurant. Become part of the movement Volo...don't become an obstacle !!!!!

Agreed on everything you say. One consolation is the fact it is now much easier to decide who to support on Sunday, go Germany !!!!

Its probably more the change of scenery in a different city, you know that saying "outta sight, outta mind"

To be fair the effectiveness of the rockets isn't really the point. Do you know one country in the world , just one country, that would accept rockets been fired constantly into there sovereign territory? A direct hit by a rocket would kill someone and there have been fatalities in the past The rocket attacks are provocative and Hamas knows there has to be some sort of response. IMO this is part of there strategy and I have to ask how much they really care about there fellow Palestinians knowing there will be a response from Israel?

Well comparing Mor to arguably the most vacuous and insincere person on these forums, Oby, and then not making any constructive contribution to the topic is probably not a good way to get people to think you really care about the topic. It reeks of trolling to me as well You may not like or agree with Mor but he is consistent in his posts. He goes out his way to explain his point and he respects the etiquette of debating, he is nothing like Oby So what do you expect him to say when you make a comment like that? It surprises me that you get surprised when people think you are dismissive, trolling or overly negative

I disagree. They were quite short, which is disappointing, but I thought the Sleeping Dogs DLCs were quite fun. I agree, the Zodiac tournament was very entertaining

"Ladies and Gentleman witness this rare occurrence, an Englishmen who seems truly content with something " High praise indeed