BruceVC

This is no surprise. I would be also desperate to manipulate public and global opinion if I was involved in the Russian security services. Russia cannot let its citizens know the truth about its actions in places like Ukraine which is exactly why you don't have truly independent media houses in Russia And before we hear the " but the West also manipulates social media ", the West has independent media houses and doesn't deny involvement in places Iraq and its military campaign against ISIS. So the West is much more transparent in its interventionist policies

Nice one, I am excited about getting my shirt

I would imagine that given who Satan is and what he represents that most Christians would object to participating in a Satanic ritual celebrating the marriage of a man and a woman. Most certainly most Christians would object to baking a cake with an upside down cross on it, no matter what it was for. You may as well ask a Jew to bake a cake with a Swastika on it, or a devout Hindu butcher to chop up some cows for you. If you look really hard you might find some that might, but you'd probably find a lot more telling you to bugger off (moreso I would think in the latter scenario). There are many things that a Christian (or anyone else, religious or not) might morally object to and not want any part of. Why marriage is seen as good.... that would take a book to answer fully. Put simply: Marriage is generally seen as good as Christians in general celebrate life (a fundamental reason that in general Christians oppose abortion), and view marriage as the ideal and best manner in which children can be brought into the world and raised. Sex outside of marriage is frowned upon for a variety of reasons. The bond of marriage is a sacred holy bond to many Christians. Christians generally hold the love and bond between a man and woman in high regard. As for Christian views of non-Christians getting married and having kids. Most Christians don't view non-Christians as folks who will necessarily suffer eternal damnation, Certainly there are some who do. Heck there are sects of Christians (of pretty much any religion) that think if one doesn't follow their way one is going to suffer eternally, or in this life. For the most part however, people with such thoughts are not deriving them from their religion, but to their credit, most if not all of those sects do attempt to persuade others to follow their way of life, so in their minds they do try and save those that they see as being on the path to hell. Christians certainly generally do not look at a child of anyone (even Mr. and Mrs. Satan's kid) and think to themselves that the kid is going to hell because of his parents. If anything they'd look at it as a new opportunity to tell someone else of Christ and the Bible. This is part of the reason (though I wouldn't say the primary) that a great deal of missionary and charity work is done all over the world where Christianity is not common, by many Christian churches. Note: I'm not exactly a practicing Christian. I do know a lot about Christianity, as I'm a lifelong student of history, went to a Christian church as a kid, and find the subject of religions and spirituality very interesting. if you want better answers than what I've given, I recommend actually going to one of your local churches and attempting to talk to one of it's clergy or even some of it's members. Clergy in general are happy to talk to people about their religion and answer questions. Even to people not of their religion (this is how I learned quite a bit of what I know of Judaism). Members of course run the spectrum a bit more, from those who will happily talk to you to those who for whatever reason would rather not, and of course some will be more intelligent and knowledgeable on whatever subject you're interested in than others. I myself almost always have interesting conversations with the Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses when they stop by in hopes of converting me. Believe it or not, most of them are pretty smart in my experience and aren't afraid of tough questions. I also have had some interesting conversations with an old priest turned part-time auto salesman who I run into at a local bar on occasion. And by way of a former job know more rabbis than priests at this point in my life. If one is respectful, people often are happy to talk about their religion with you. Morality and discussions about it can be quite complex. Such things are best done in person. @ Vals and Amentep You guys are posting some really interesting perspectives that never occurred to me. I always learn new things on these forums But you both seem to be missing something fundamental, this bill is about the LGBT community not being served in commercial entities like restaurants . Issues like Christians having to serve Satanists is not what this furor is about even if it is valid. I see that as more of a distraction from the real issues of discrimination and homophobia that some people cleverly mask using other issues so there bigotry isn't apparent ..and this obviously doesn't apply to either of you

But were you born in NZ, I would be surprised if you were because you seem far too personal and persistent with your diatribe against the West Its like you have a real grudge ...like many people from Serbia who dislike the West because of perceived bad treatment. And its not big deal, I am just interested

I understand that people have a certain view of Russia and its actions and anyone is perfectly entitled to believe what they want But other people will dispute this, like me Firstly its not accurate to suggest that sanctions against any country have an equally negative impact to both sides, thats just not true. Yes of course in the case of Russia as the sanctions increase you will see international companies pulling out of the Russian economy or being forced to and this will impact sales as Russia was a excellent market for certain industries. But there are always other markets and the reality is sanctions make it very difficult for any country to operate in the global community so the worst hit people will be Russian businesses who need to operate in the international community As you mentioned Russia is primarily the architect of ifs own economic slowdown as it hasn't diversified its economy and relied on the exports of natural resources to sustain its economy so obviously the falling oil price has had a huge impact But lets not kid ourselves of course the Western sanctions have also had a detrimental effect to the Russian economy..its just silly to suggest anything different For example Russian bonds are now worth junk which makes borrowing more expensive and also certain international fund managers have to pull out of investing in Russia. But the main issue is Russia is now considered a risky investment so you will see and have seen the mass flow of foreign capital ..this is bad for any country The end result of most sanctions is not to undermine Putins power, we know he is very popular. The end result is to get the Russian economy to a point where its so bad it has to start making concessions...so in the interest of economic stability Putin will have to become more serious about a real agreement in Ukraine You may think " what nonsense..sanctions don't work " but that would be a incorrect assumption. Sanctions work but they work slowly and insidiously..look at my own country South Africa and Iran? Sanctions forces both countries to want to negotiate and Russia will be no different

...Have you ever ****ing spoken to an American? I dare say we're the most self-depricating people on Earth, both because we're just humor-loving and because we have every reason to be. (if someone would like to name another candidate, please do because I would love to meet the people of said country) Not all of us of course, since there's truth to all stereotypes and the "MURICA" stereotype is no exception, but I often find myself explaining to foreigners who're curious about America that the USA actually houses two very distinct cultures, and criticism of the USA is very welcome amongst one, still welcome amongst the other for different reasons entirely. Yes actually I have spoken to numerous Americans, I work for a global American software company and travel to the USA at least once a year My point still stands but obviously this applies to certain groups within American culture Despite the amazing patience Americans seem to have with foreigners telling them how to be a better nation criticism and ridicule from a foreigner won't be tolerated for very long...but Noah will know better than to do this all the time....he will use restraint and a level of balance

Exactly..and we don't want a weakened EU in the face of the rise of Russian hegemony and military aggression Sorry Bruce but that's nonsense. Seems you are heavily biased against Russia. Do you know what hegemony is ? It's cultural imperialism. Do you see Russian consumer products anywhere? Please, get real. We have had western hegemony for the last 200 years or so. Wow Luj1, you say I am bias....did you read your last post...I would say you are also inclined to support a certain side in the tension between the West and Russia Its interesting you say Russia are the good guys, I would love to have this debate with you. So lets start with " whats your definition of good guy " in this context?

Yeah I agree, it must be a April Fools joke

No, it isn't wrong. Why would you keep playing if it isn't fun anymore? It'd be equivalent to getting to page 600 of a 2000 page epic and going "You know, I've not enjoyed the last 400 pages...but I'm too far in to quit now!". It's just silly. Thats good thinking and logic, I like it

Exactly..and we don't want a weakened EU in the face of the rise of Russian hegemony and military aggression We? Location:Johannesburg, South Africa you funny Oby Yes, despite what some people think in South Africa " we "are aligned to Western ideology So "we " refers to countries that follow Western culture

I usually don't bother replying to you because of your constant, unsubtle trolling. In this case I'm going to make an exception because I don't want anyone reading your lies and buying into the party line for an instant. Yes, (some) macroeconomic figures say Spain has, in 2014, grown as much as Germany. Whoop-de-****ing-do. However, this "improvement" needs to be put in perspective: intensive use of labor means a decrease in productivity in an economy already notoriously unproductive (25% less than Germany's) "growth" in 2014 is actually only bouncing back from the contraction experienced these last few years — for the absolutely most optimistic predictions, it'll take until 2017 to get back to 2008 levels... other economists say we'll never get back to those levels "austerity" measures have accomplished only one thing, distributing wealth upwards. In 2014 the number of people worth more than €1M increased by 24%, with population in poverty increasing, something even the EC has chastised Spain for. after six years of "fiscal consolidation", we still have a deficit of about 6%, only better than Greece's; this is in spite of massive direct and indirect taxes increases and an incresing public debt that is expected to surpass 100% in 2015 the "jobs miracle" is, in true Spanish fashion, a cheap copy of the German model, with 13% of jobs created being for less than 10 hours/mo, and 39% being less than 30 hours/mo. This is in addition to ~40% of contracts being for 30 days or less and new jobs offering paycheck levels from 1995. Yes, 1995. The difference with the German model? The state doesn't make up for the difference between minimum wage and current job salaries. The result of all this? A net increase of less than 200k jobs compared to 2011 levels I could go on, but that should be enough for anyone not otherwise informed to realize that you, quite simply, have no idea what you are talking about. Good day. Thanks for taking the time and responding, I have found that interesting

In the example of the Muslim cartoonist he shouldn't be held liable for not drawing a cartoon of Muhammad, of course this is an extreme example because most of us know that Muslims don't believe that any images of the Prophet are acceptable. So no one would expect a Muslim to do this And I also dont think the other example is particularly valid because there are many Kosher and Halal restaurants that only serve a certain type of food based on religious doctrine and these restaurants are never sued So neither of these examples is relevant to a restaurant refusing to serve members of LGBT community, surly you can see the difference ?

But that is exactly what you saying, you just replaced 'do something against your belief' with 'serve member of LGBT community'.. So to put it plainly, do you think that an orthodox priest should liable for not agreeing to preform a service against his belief? Or a Muslim painter for not agreeing to draw a cartoon of muhammad? No we are not talking about churches or religious organisations. This is commercial businesses, so for example a bakery that refuses to serve members of the LGBT community And this furore is about people being refused service in a shop, like a restaurant, because of there sexual orientation. We are not talking about you forcing a Muslim to draw a picture of the Prophet Muhammad which is against there religious belief

So...I feel guilty, I started playing the fantasy RPG Inquisitor http://store.steampowered.com/app/241620/ ( Not DA:I from Bioware ) And after 25 hours I have lost interest....I feel like I am giving up but the game is becoming laborious. Is it wrong to play a game for so long and then quit?

No one is saying you can't have religious freedom but you can't refuse to serve anyone who comes to your business because they are a member of LGBT community...and its actually simpler than that, you can refuse to serve them but you can and will get sued. This Indiana law would have prevented businesses from being sued as they would have used the "Religious Freedom Law" as a defense from legal action

Oww its indianas law.. I am a bit conflicted about this, I had the same issue with some anti-smoking laws. Whereas I am against smoking, I thought that private business should be able to choose. (in the extreme, a cigar club shouldn't have non smoker places just for my benefit\entertainment) As long as it is clearly marked, i'll just pick my money and go where I want. Anyway in the end, in most case public health argument won over the inconvenience of the business owners, however, with religion and belief its a bit different. Again in the extreme i don't see why orthodox christian wedding service should be sued for refusing to serve a guy couple, or an orthodox muslim for refusing to make a muhammad drawing or an orthodox jew serve for not serving kosher stuff.. According to the article: "It's actually the 20th state to adopt a "religious freedom restoration" law, most of which are modeled after the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, which President Bill Clinton signed into law in 1993." So it has been working for a while, but isn't sutisfactory to the LGBT community, who is lobbying to promote its acceptance in religious circles, You right this law was in fact implemented under Bill Clinton but times have changed and the USA has really progressed since then. Especially when it comes to gay rights, more states than ever before now recognize same-sex marriage for example. So it doesn't help if a state wants to implement some form of discrimination against the LGBT community and says " but we are just using an established law that Clinton created" ...this will be challenged and disputed which is exactly what we are seeing in Indiana

Sorry, but if a guy need some special training to act decent maybe, just maybe, he is to f*** up to be on the police force. Sure, but can we really ignore considerations like he may just have been having a really bad day? Is this enough to get him kicked-off the Police force? I don't know know anything about him or what he is really like so I hate to make assumptions ?

This is a very informed and realistic post, I like the part where you say " The thing about Stewart is that even though he's beating up on American culture, he still feels like a part of it. He still has had to grow up immersed in it and all of it's idiocy. Noah will have to be careful about not coming off as the outsider pointing and laughing at our culture " Thats exactly my concern, it reminds me of Piers Morgan who even though he made some good points he ultimately failed in the USA because he was seen as an outsider who was far too critical of certain groups in the USA, like the NRA, and made too many powerful enemies

You right Vals ...I did use to think you were a social deviant and someone who has crossed the law on several occasions....and I'm still not convinced this is not the case

Yeah, thats what I was alluding to. He has in the past made several controversial jokes that are amongst other things seen as anti-Semitic and derogatory towards women But to be fair you could argue that a sense of humor is subjective. But there is no doubt he will have to consider what he now tweets and thinks is funny as he is now on the international stage and what he says will be scrutinized So lets see how things progress

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/03/30/entertainment/trevor-noah-daily-show-jon-stewart-feat/index.html So this is an interesting development, a South African comedian Trevor Noah is about to get the prestigious job of replacing Jon Stewart on the Daily Show I'm not sure if anyone on these forums has even heard of Trevor Noah, many people find him really funny. He is okay to me...not that funny He also needs to realize that you won't go very far in an American media house if he thinks his humor should be based on anti-Western and anti-American sentiment. So I am cautiously optimistic about if he will succeed in his new position. The one consolation is that I believe that the writers of the Daily Show should be the primary contributors towards his jokes and what he discusses. So hopefully he doesn't come across as just annoying his audience with the level of his humor

Exactly..and we don't want a weakened EU in the face of the rise of Russian hegemony and military aggression

I see this video has just made it onto CNN..I expect there now will be consequences around how this Policeman conducted himself ?

You know I don't think mentioned that. Then again, there are plenty of sjw's who are 'absolutely committed' and go out of their way to ruin peoples lives for holding the wrong opinions in their view. They also go out of their way to make mountains out of mole hills, there are also plenty who will lie through their teeth and use the playbook of alinksky, to turn something that isn't an issue into said mountain. You may or may not have noticed this, but while you don't fall into that mould, plenty of others do. Much like they'll go out of their way to disrupt public events, push companies to fire someone because of the private actions, and so on. There is no justice in any of those actions, those are the actions of a mob of people who are perpetually offended because of their own petty reasons. What you think "GG tells people about you" isn't the thing. It's the actions of sjw's themselves that's causing the pushback because they've had enough. Sure I hear you and I don't disagree. There are examples of SJW ( I really don't like that term because it has a negative connotation for many ) that have raised issues around inclusivity that are just unreasonable or more disruptive than constructive . But we mustn't generalize and think all people who raise SJ issues are automatically wrong or misplaced. But I think we can agree on this, sometimes issues raised by people who believe in SJ causes are valid ?

Geez thats a serious indictment of that Policeman...he seemed really annoyed and I would advise he needs some kind of anger management course But I wouldn't want this to be seen as " this is how all Policemen conduct themselves " ....because I believe this is more of an isolated incident....well I hope it is