BruceVC

Yes, if these Mosques are allowing Hate Speech then you need to close them down...harsh but fair

Shady do you mind sharing why you personally don't like Hilary, I am interested in all Americans opinions because I am trying to see if I am missing something about her that Americans would be aware of but not a foreigner like me I think Elerond gave a better response than I ever could I would also never support someone just because of race or gender either and did not vote for Obama in 2008 (even though I did in 2012) Also Okay that chart is ....concerning How accurate is it and what questions was she asked ? It's an aggregate of several polls. One on its own may be inconsequential. But taken together, they're useful enough. Nate Silver/Fivethirtyeight has graded the various individual pollsters: http://fivethirtyeight.com/interactives/pollster-ratings/ Okay this is a much better picture ....thx

Hahaha. You're alright Bruce. Your views are terrible but you can handle the banter. Okay but then I have no idea what type of SJ you believe in? I assumed you had similar views to me, not about Capitalism but the importance of a fair and equitable society and that would mean realistically you need to uplift people to the middle class at least So what US president do you support The difference is that liberals think welfare is the way up, but don't realize that like children people have to be pushed or else they will still be 30 without a job in their parents house playing video games. Okay good point, to be clear I don't believe in state welfare...no this is not what I would consider is sustainable or is about job creation. I doubt any Liberal in the USA would actually say this as welfare just holds people back as it gets abused? US democrats use welfare to keep blacks as their spoiled children so they keep voting Democrat and cant be bothered by anyone abusing the system. I know this for a fact because I work weekends on a supermarket and I've seen welfare cards that have 1000+ dollars in their account, meanwhile I work with people whose whole family work 2 jobs almost every day and were denied welfare. Seriously; **** welfare, It doesn't work. It is not helping the hardworking to get ahead and it is only making sure that their dollars go to help some shameless people that have no scruples cheating the system. You want to help poor people, then control government spending and get rid of sales taxes as well as some other ridiculous taxes. Orog what you suggesting is a serious indictment of how to abuse the welfare system and worse than that this type of corruption actually wouldn't benefit African Americans. It goes against everything the Democrats believe and I can't imagine is wide spread?

Shady do you mind sharing why you personally don't like Hilary, I am interested in all Americans opinions because I am trying to see if I am missing something about her that Americans would be aware of but not a foreigner like me I think Elerond gave a better response than I ever could I would also never support someone just because of race or gender either and did not vote for Obama in 2008 (even though I did in 2012) Also Okay that chart is ....concerning How accurate is it and what questions was she asked ?

Hahaha. You're alright Bruce. Your views are terrible but you can handle the banter. Okay but then I have no idea what type of SJ you believe in? I assumed you had similar views to me, not about Capitalism but the importance of a fair and equitable society and that would mean realistically you need to uplift people to the middle class at least So what US president do you support The difference is that liberals think welfare is the way up, but don't realize that like children people have to be pushed or else they will still be 30 without a job in their parents house playing video games. Okay good point, to be clear I don't believe in state welfare...no this is not what I would consider is sustainable or is about job creation. I doubt any Liberal in the USA would actually say this as welfare just holds people back as it gets abused?

Hahaha. You're alright Bruce. Your views are terrible but you can handle the banter. Okay but then I have no idea what type of SJ you believe in? I assumed you had similar views to me, not about Capitalism but the importance of a fair and equitable society and that would mean realistically you need to uplift people to the middle class at least So what US president do you support

Maybe, I'm not sure what Baro actually thinks about issues because he seems fine to insult people but cant actually respond to a simple question. And I doubt its because " he won't speak to BruceVC " because he seems fine with sarcasm?

Are you a Hilary supporter as well ? Why do you support her ?

Shady do you mind sharing why you personally don't like Hilary, I am interested in all Americans opinions because I am trying to see if I am missing something about her that Americans would be aware of but not a foreigner like me

Yep, hadn't heard that term before - sounds like someone tossing you in a ditch. My job wasn't that bad, but had gotten super crappy of late, Management had a 'Vision' at sometime and I guess that's when things changed. But yes, will have to find something interesting or at least not as abhorrent. Yes and Malc I am not patronizing you when I say rather look for a job you enjoy...its more important than the money because the money will follow once you enjoy your job

Yes of course I know he is being sarcastic KP ignores me anyway ...but I'm funny hey

Well I dont know what to say, I never thought you would agree with me on this. But its probably misplaced to assume any government cannot abuse its power so rather be aware of this one....but now you understand what I meant when I said you can have freedom but also be monitored

KP please dont just vote for Bernie because he is Jewish and you think people will see you as more liberal and committed to transformation....only vote for him if you believe he is a better choice than Hilary.... Now you probably wondering why I'm telling you this...I know you young guys sometimes want to embellish your SJ status ...but let things develop naturally

WOD please you and I do have several things in common like our condemnation of Snowden But please dont tell me you believe in conspiracy theories....the USA didnt commit 9/11to themselves or somehow knew it was going to happen

I admire this post because you clearly are passionate about the topic and that story about the sacrifice is sad yet admirable

oh, well, because you know it, it must be true. everyone knows that the majority o' media sources in malaysia is state controlled-- a tool for misleading their people. everyone knows that religious and personal freedoms in malaysia are limited compared to virtual all western nations. everyone knows that a disheartening percentage o' populace o' malaysians polled support isis, and that a disturbing number has joined to fight with isis. see, we can put "everyone knows" in front o' a statement and make it true. no? 'course our statements actual is true, but so it goes. bah. bruce is correct. this thread is complete off the rails and almost nobody is speaking 'bout paris attacks anyways. done. getting nowhere with increasingly agitated qistina or willingly following zor as he once again circles down the drain is pointless. HA! Good Fun! There are no Americans who support ISIS? I heard most of ISIS members are Americans, and white No, ISIS consists of Sunni Arabs and Sunni Muslims from foreign countries and yes there are Sunni Muslims who do join them from Western countries but no that many from the USA http://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2015/04/us/americans-isis/

Lets forget the word image then, the point I'm trying to make is it seems that many white, males vote for the Republicans for valid reasons Yet for reasons mentioned I don't think the Republicans will win this next election. Now its not because white males who vote for the Republicans are redundant or should just accept " there won't be a Republican president because of the way minorities always vote for Democrats " ,,,no WOD this is just an excuse to not make some reasonable changes to the Republican ideology Of course you don't have to make any changes but the Republicans can win an election...but the change needs to come from within But anyway lets see after the election

Excellent question, I like her not just because she is women.....yes thats part of it but she is going to be the Democratic candidate and I do believe with her history of service she is qualified So many of you guys think she is just saying what people want to hear and she doesn't really believe what she says. Well the Democrats have ostensibly got a winning strategy which is based fundamentally on a belief that the middle class needs to be uplifted and supported and the federal government should intervene in some cases. Hilary Clinton says she supports this and I believe her because she is a Democrat, what is it people think she should be saying to be sincere? Now for me this makes perfect sense, if you grow the middle class in any country you will have more spending power. Yes you won't have as many self-made millionaires but lets be realistic is becoming a millionaire in the USA still a goal people consider as paramount? The objectives of Obama and the Democrats despite what people think is not to undermine white males at the expense of minorities...so I guess I am still not sure why you guys don't like Hilary Clinton?

That's what US government was doing, wasn't it? And you're upset that Snowden exposed it. Please correct me if i missed something. What the US government was doing was looking for any pattern of communication between known terrorist groups, individuals and supporters of terrorism. They were not "spying on everybody" despite what Putin, Assange and the free Russian press might be telling you. Yes this is 100% correct, the real damage seems to be from Americans and people on these forums like KP who feel there government betrayed them Well even Europalament MPs thinks that Snowden did the right thing... http://arstechnica.co.uk/tech-policy/2015/10/european-parliament-votes-to-shield-snowden-from-extradition-to-us/ Yeah, that doesnt surprise me The EU also makes the occasional mistake ...its not perfect

And why would you say he doesn't resonate as you claim? And is it his fault he if he doesn't? Unusual on these forums, but appreciated. I can't be happy with those changes because I'm rational, and I've studied history, and I believe I understand something of human nature. The whole Democrat strategy is to pander to minorities, set races against each other and create racial strife and a sense of victimization to motivate those same minorities to turn out and vote for Democrats, using lies and propaganda as necessary with the help of their ally the Main Stream Media, just look at what happened in Ferguson or the Zimmerman/Martin case. It is also to replace native American voters with immigrants, legal and illegal, since they're known to vote Democrat by large majorities. Trump was talking about illegal aliens, and there are criminals among them, no doubt about it. http://www.breitbart.com/video/2015/11/14/trump-embraces-parents-children-murdered-illegal-immigrants/ Note the number of murders committed by illegals in that article. I personally knew one of the victims mentioned, Spencer Galvach, btw. We're tired of Obola letting in illegals to murder Americans and we're not going to stand for it. Large number of Hispanics want to be pandered to by us rewarding their friends and relatives for breaking our law, but we will not bring the rope to our own hanging no matter what progs like you think. You may be right, lets see in the election....but lets make a deal if Clinton wins will you at least start considering that the Republicans need to work on there image?

Like i said, America never give a fair deal, but that doesn't mean we no longer have dealings with USA...Presiden Obama just visited Malaysia you know...he come with a treaty, another unfair deal...the TTPA... It is a convenient the president visit us after the incident of MH370 and MH17............we know your game........ calling bs. if deal were so bad, then why were f/a 18 e/f a finalist along with grippen and russian su 30 mkms in malaysia's recent attempt to upgrade air force? malaysia continued to get hornet support from boeing and the us dod in the form o' continued training hardware upgrades. you are being fed bs from your media and naive if you think that the us provided empty hornet shells to malaysia over a decade ago and that malaysia has continued to cooperate with us to upgrade, maintain, and train pilots for those hornets... as well as making new hornets a finalist for their recent fighter aircraft upgrade. nonsense. all o' which is so utterly irrelevant to what is going on in paris and the middle east and africa. aside, we agree with bruce and others that focus on paris is unfortunate but understandable. we personal were annoyed when the charlie hebdo stuff were occupying headlines when at similar time an entire town in northern nigeria were razed by boko haram. we complained 'bout the lack o' sympathy for the folks o' baga on these boards (http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/66161-boko-haram-and-the-kidnpping-of-the-school-girls/?p=1556307) nigeria claims that 150 people were killed and and thousands displaced (as opposed to the estimates o' anywhere from 1000 to 2000 fatalities from more objective sources). baga shoulda' garnered more attention. unfortunately, news o' violence in the middle east and africa is so common that it westerners rare pay attention to such stuff. have a story that only 150 people died in africa and middle east in 2015 due to sectarian violence and THAT would be a story. is terrible, but we expect violence and bloodshed in the middle east. is not news if is ordinary? maybe. HA! Good Fun! Gromnir why do feel the need to debate like this with Qistina ? You can't really feel the need to win this debate and it should be obvious that there is a language translation problem and lack of overall insight on certain matters,,,,this is not Zora you are debating with, with him you always have to win well, we had stopped... then we saw the antichrist stuff. *eye roll* spew that kinda nonsense and then claim that western media is giving distorted view o' malaysia's islamic state? were funny... and wrong. as an aside, we prefer our antichrist riding a trike https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kg9-axPBw1g HA! Good Fun! Y Yeah I hear you, its not just you but everyone on this thread seems very keen to challenge Qistina because of her views on certain topics But I just think " why " , end of the day we all know that sometimes our views are shaped by circumstances and you won't change that so for me its just seems pointless

That's what US government was doing, wasn't it? And you're upset that Snowden exposed it. Please correct me if i missed something. What the US government was doing was looking for any pattern of communication between known terrorist groups, individuals and supporters of terrorism. They were not "spying on everybody" despite what Putin, Assange and the free Russian press might be telling you. Yes this is 100% correct, the real damage seems to be from Americans and people on these forums like KP who feel there government betrayed them

Dude even with your strange Netherlands view of politics you can't really think Trump would benefit the USA ? He will take the USA backwards Backwards? In what regard? Oh sorry I assumed you Americans knew about the Dutch ? Everyone knows because they all smoke weed they think there political and social reality is lacking....yet they in the top 5 Happiest Places in the World ...but I suppose Weed does make you happy http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/03/20/international-happiness-day-happiest-countries/25073055/ Well you realize that Carson is black right, so he's dismissing and alienating himself? Trump's attacks against some women came in response to them attacking him, not out of the blue as some would have you believe. You're likely right about the inability of Republicans to win elections going forward, and we very well may become a one party state, but whites don't vote for Republicans at over 95% the way blacks vote for Democrats, or even at 75% the way Hispanics vote. To pander to those minorities Republicans would simply have to become Democrats, and what would be the point of that? Although some blacks do seem to now realize how much illegal immigration is hurting them. Yes, I'm well aware that the Republicans have candidates that represent all minority groups, also I have heard interviews from certain Republican candidates where they absolutely support and recognize the rights of lets say the Latinos But we need to be realistic and honest, do you think someone like Carson resonates with the average African American? I doubt it But I'm glad you commented on what I said because I dont want to create this impression that I think I know more than actual Americans about there own politics....that would seem very arrogant to me and I like you American members Why I said what I said is because I see the Democrats winning the presidency and to understand this and change the political trajectory the Republicans just need to understand certain social dynamics that are part of the American political reality ...and I think this is sometimes overlooked and yet its not hard to understand. And as a white male there is no reason you can't be happy with these changes ..and of course I want that. I am not one of these SJ people who feels the need to put his own race down. White males are important and very relevant and they should also be comfortable in a political party Also those stats are interesting you posted, they actually support my view and raise an interesting point. I see this in South Africa and other countries where minorities vote. I use to get very frustrated in South Africa by the constant way black South Africans would always vote for the ANC despite all the bad political decisions they made, I would think " well clearly people don't want a better government " but I kept overlooking something. I was assuming that everyone voted the same way I did and they should vote like me because it is logical and I was driven by what was best for the country But when I started actually asking why people voted for the ANC the response was not what I expected " we feel other political parties are racist" now of course other political parties aren't racist but clearly this misperception was real Now lets look at the USA, do you think that the reason African American and Latinos vote Democrat is because they pander to them? No I doubt it, I can guarantee you if you ask them the response will be something like " well the Democrats aren't racist " So now you have a reality to change and the first thing that has to happen is you can't have people like Trump saying " Mexicans are thieves and drug dealers and need to be deported " This type of comment may be dismissed by the Republicans but do you think that the Latino community will forget this? No chance and this will cost them most of the Latino vote You feel as a Republican you can't change this, you can change this if you understand people will vote on perceived views around topics like racism

Yeah, it amazes me because Zora makes these points that people seem to agree with and part of what he sometimes says I agree with but then he makes these anti-Western comments that just seem incongruous " the West is just using Russia " or " Syria is about who gains credit " And I realize his view of the West actually blinds him to some obvious realities No offense Zora but you do tend to do this and it makes your entire perspective questionable if you have a debate with someone who is informed but is trying to be objective I just wish you would share with me where you born and your upbringing, I promise it won't change my view of you

Like i said, America never give a fair deal, but that doesn't mean we no longer have dealings with USA...Presiden Obama just visited Malaysia you know...he come with a treaty, another unfair deal...the TTPA... It is a convenient the president visit us after the incident of MH370 and MH17............we know your game........ calling bs. if deal were so bad, then why were f/a 18 e/f a finalist along with grippen and russian su 30 mkms in malaysia's recent attempt to upgrade air force? malaysia continued to get hornet support from boeing and the us dod in the form o' continued training hardware upgrades. you are being fed bs from your media and naive if you think that the us provided empty hornet shells to malaysia over a decade ago and that malaysia has continued to cooperate with us to upgrade, maintain, and train pilots for those hornets... as well as making new hornets a finalist for their recent fighter aircraft upgrade. nonsense. all o' which is so utterly irrelevant to what is going on in paris and the middle east and africa. aside, we agree with bruce and others that focus on paris is unfortunate but understandable. we personal were annoyed when the charlie hebdo stuff were occupying headlines when at similar time an entire town in northern nigeria were razed by boko haram. we complained 'bout the lack o' sympathy for the folks o' baga on these boards (http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/66161-boko-haram-and-the-kidnpping-of-the-school-girls/?p=1556307) nigeria claims that 150 people were killed and and thousands displaced (as opposed to the estimates o' anywhere from 1000 to 2000 fatalities from more objective sources). baga shoulda' garnered more attention. unfortunately, news o' violence in the middle east and africa is so common that it westerners rare pay attention to such stuff. have a story that only 150 people died in africa and middle east in 2015 due to sectarian violence and THAT would be a story. is terrible, but we expect violence and bloodshed in the middle east. is not news if is ordinary? maybe. HA! Good Fun! Gromnir why do feel the need to debate like this with Qistina ? You can't really feel the need to win this debate and it should be obvious that there is a language translation problem and lack of overall insight on certain matters,,,,this is not Zora you are debating with, with him you always have to win