BruceVC

Well, not necessarily the ethnicity, though, he didn't make much mention of it. Saying all Americans are dumb or that the British are bunch of drunkards isn't racist, it's being prejudiced against a large group, for example. If he had said he assumes the rape statistics would be high as those rascally Magyars like a bit of raping now and then, that would be racist. But that's what's implied. Hungary doesn't have any significant minorities (Roma?), so other than "Magyars liking a bit of raping now and then", why would anyone assume such a thing? It's not "hai guise here's Hungary rape stats, they pretty high", or "hai guise what are Hungary rape stats?". It's just BVC assuming random stupid **** about an Eastern Europe (read: non-Western) country. Unlike American or British, Hungarian is an ethnicity. Prejudice about a particular ethnicity is hard to write off as not racism. *braces for a YT rant from a random "not racist" guy with really bad taste in hairdos* Is anyone surprised? BVC is the pinnacle of "liberal" racism (more like racism applied liberally). Everyone non-western is a sad little untermenchen savage that should join the superior civilization, for their own good, you know. We are superior therefore you must accept us and if you don't you eventually will, because we will bomb you for your own good and democracy before you realize the error of your ways. And damn you for making us do it! And on and on it goes with fascinating, bot like persistence. I'll be honest Drowsy if what Sarex said is true about how belligerent all the ex-Yugoslavian countries still are then its best you don't join the EU....but I cant believe you guys refuse to move on and just can't achieve a meaningful peace with your neighbors? Its not that hard but you seem determined to follow the path of interminable conflict ...I don't understand the logic ? That was weak my friend, but enough to confirm everything I just said about you. This is what Sarex said .....how can you not see this a really bad indictment of the region ....thats why I don't believe its that bad "Croatia is getting military equipment (from the West (US I think)) that can be converted to a range where they can launch missiles at us (Serbia) and they are licking their lips about it. Apart from that they are constantly look for a way to trip us up. Albania is looking for any way it can to destabilize the region around it and annex Kosovo to it's borders. Macedonia is fighting a battle with it's own people because it's Muslim population has gotten so high it's influence can now cause a civil war and it's changing one puppet regime for another. Bosnia has Muslim terrorist training camps in it that are operating unchecked and the country it self is falling apart because the system that is in place is unable to do anything about that. Bulgaria is just falling apart economically, because the west won't help and they can't look to the east for fear of economic reprisal from said west. Hungary is pissed at us for letting immigrants through even though they would have probably condemned us as monsters with the rest of the world for not helping them otherwise. "

When I call people out on racist stuff they say, I rarely assume they did so maliciously. It doesn't make the statement less racist, though. Heh, well that's surprising. Yes but alum if the person had no intention of racism it should make the whole thing seem much less of rude? Thats what I want to achieve

Well, not necessarily the ethnicity, though, he didn't make much mention of it. Saying all Americans are dumb or that the British are bunch of drunkards isn't racist, it's being prejudiced against a large group, for example. If he had said he assumes the rape statistics would be high as those rascally Magyars like a bit of raping now and then, that would be racist. But that's what's implied. Hungary doesn't have any significant minorities (Roma?), so other than "Magyars liking a bit of raping now and then", why would anyone assume such a thing? It's not "hai guise here's Hungary rape stats, they pretty high", or "hai guise what are Hungary rape stats?". It's just BVC assuming random stupid **** about an Eastern Europe (read: non-Western) country. Unlike American or British, Hungarian is an ethnicity. Prejudice about a particular ethnicity is hard to write off as not racism. *braces for a YT rant from a random "not racist" guy with really bad taste in hairdos* Is anyone surprised? BVC is the pinnacle of "liberal" racism (more like racism applied liberally). Everyone non-western is a sad little untermenchen savage that should join the superior civilization, for their own good, you know. We are superior therefore you must accept us and if you don't you eventually will, because we will bomb you for your own good and democracy before you realize the error of your ways. And damn you for making us do it! And on and on it goes with fascinating, bot like persistence. I'll be honest Drowsy if what Sarex said is true about how belligerent all the ex-Yugoslavian countries still are then its best you don't join the EU....but I cant believe you guys refuse to move on and just can't achieve a meaningful peace with your neighbors? Its not that hard but you seem determined to follow the path of interminable conflict ...I don't understand the logic ?

Well, not necessarily the ethnicity, though, he didn't make much mention of it. Saying all Americans are dumb or that the British are bunch of drunkards isn't racist, it's being prejudiced against a large group, for example. If he had said he assumes the rape statistics would be high as those rascally Magyars like a bit of raping now and then, that would be racist. But that's what's implied. Hungary doesn't have any significant minorities (Roma?), so other than "Magyars liking a bit of raping now and then", why would anyone assume such a thing? It's not "hai guise here's Hungary rape stats, they pretty high", or "hai guise what are Hungary rape stats?". It's just BVC assuming random stupid **** about an Eastern Europe (read: non-Western) country. Unlike American or British, Hungarian is an ethnicity. Prejudice about a particular ethnicity is hard to write off as not racism. *braces for a YT rant from a random "not racist" guy with really bad taste in hairdos* You so clever 2133, how could anyone dispute such irrefutable logic You do realize I have already explained exactly why I said that and I apologized...I think alum understands why I said that But its always nice to get your views

Stop reading people's fantasies and wild speculations on the internet. That said: It is illegal in Sweden to keep records of ethnic heritage of people accused of or convicted of crimes. It is true that in some of the most segregated suburbs (there probably are three or so in Sweden) harassment of people with "improper" clothing could occur. Still, this is something which COULD happen, and the harassment would take the form of someone shouting something at you. I've walked with a tailcoat on through some of the "worst" suburbs of Stockholm without anything happening at all. Anyways, 99% of the things you read are probably outright lies, cherry-picking, or a mixture of both. That said, refugees have lately (talking the last year or so) become a huge short-term economic burden. The amount of money spent on juveniles coming to Sweden without their families is comparable to the collected expenditures of the entire state of Afghanistan, I've heard. For something you deem "fantasies and wild speculations" there are dozens of people passionately claiming this very thing that seemingly get nothing out of it. Are they all racists then? Look, as for Sweden being a country which easily gives out welfare with no counterdemands, I think most people would agree. Same as for refugees not being a short-term economic bonus, and the segregation and societal divides that has occured. But this stuff: "The right is very insistent that muslim immigration is directly responsible for a huge spike in rape cases in nordic (and other) countries, and that the police and media purposefully omit the ethnicity and religion of the perpetrators on a regular basis to protect the whole multi-culti fantasy. Additionally, the punishments are usually extremely lenient. I've also read reports from women that harassment of native women walking around (not covered up) in the streets by muslim arabs and blacks is a regular thing." Is frankly just Nazi-levels of hogwash. I don't have time to reply to every lie and exaggeration in that statement, nor to do a Freudian analysis of the people who seem pathologically obsessed with interracial rape. I don't care much for generalizing and labelling people "racists", I'd rather discuss every single issue separately. And frankly, a lot of what you hear is on this level: I'm surprised some people are so willingly circulating wildly racist blatant lies. Ros I am glad you are setting the record straight about Sweden...for some reason Sweden has become the paradigm of EU failure for some on these forums where "you have this utterly failed immigration policy that has destroyed your country "

What has the media been like ? I enjoy the international Media networks but sometimes there constant desire to justify and explain events gets tiresome If I were overly suspicious I would think they were pushing what a great thing it is to bring them, at least on CBC. Probably not as, showing how depserate they are, or silly human interest stories on a family as they make their way in or giving into people boastfully giving aid to them makes for feel-good TV. Helps feed Canadian narcissism, too I guess, heh. 25,000 is pretty small for Canada, I think Toronto alone could absorb that much and be okay. yeah I know what you mean...but interestingly enough this type of "over attention " to this type of social event is not about narcissism IMO Its about a sense of duty and responsibility that certain sectors of society in first world countries believe they need to support ...I think its unnecessary but its a positive thing, albeit annoying

Are you... trying to guilt trip me about this? No I am being sincere, it would be against most of my principles to make a sweeping negative statement about a whole country

What has the media been like ? I enjoy the international Media networks but sometimes there constant desire to justify and explain events gets tiresome

"I imagine rape stats are pretty high in Hungary" is an exceedingly racist statement. It also misses its own point entirely. Why is this relevant now? Okay so you did misunderstand me ....yes I can see how by the way I worded it. It doesn't miss the point because at the time it was relevant to the discussion I was having where we were discussing the appallingly high levels of crime in South Africa I apologize for the misrepresentation I created about Hungary, it does tell me how little you must think about my integrity and general knowledge if you think I could make that type of assumption of an entire country ..but I seem to sometimes get misunderstood on these forums And it matters now because its been bothering me...I have been thinking " surly he cant think I would make a blanket statement about his whole country....surly he can't think that " ...but you did and I want to clarify. For me its about the principle I asked that because I was trying to gauge the overall rape stats across Europe, the East European countries I would imagine probably have more overall crime than old Europe and there are logical and historical reasons for this ...like the collapse of the USSR created a vacuum for some people who are now resentful and disillusioned with integration in the EU. Add to that a lackluster or depressed economy and of course crime will be more prevalent in any country But it wasn't a generalization that "Hungarians would naturally commit more rape than other Europeans "

Yeah, perhaps we should perfect "democracy" over here before attempting to export it. But dem mad profits tho. It's interesting how people have been tricked into voting against their own collective interests. Are you familiar with Owen Jones? Yeah, I think a lot of people are starting to realise that we don't have a real democracy, at least not anymore. More an oligarchy. Not familiar with Owen Jones, but I do find it interesting how people have been voting against themselves across the world. Here many people kept on voting for New Labour because "we always voted Labour because they are the party of the working class like me" despite it being so obvious that Blair had changed it into something completely different. Flint I have a very different view of the West, I am a huge supporter of the West. By the way my family come from the UK, we have property in London and the UK would be the place I immigrate to if South Africa collapses I can give you a much more positive view but only if you want to read it

Western culture is just as much a product of ancient Greek and Enlightenment traditions, I'm really not seeing why do you want to single out christianity as a uniquely relevant part of these cultural pillars. alu last week or so I asked you about the rape stats in Hungary and the way I asked you felt I was being racist...were you joking because I need to clarify something if you were being serious

I use to think any government intervention was automatically a bad thing but after 2008 I understand why you need institutions like SEC but they need to be competent and have people working for them who understand the financial sector In the USA its fine but in South Africa our government has no understanding of what is best for the private sector How is a government a culture? Your definition of "Western Culture" is confusing because it equates culture with state and requires a specific ideology when many other ideologies have arisen in the West. Furthermore it discounts historical West from being "Western Culture" because they did not practice some form of liberalism. Western civilization is the heritage that the people of Europe have, from the Etruscans, Illyrians, Hellenic, Roman, Germanic, Celtic, Anglo-Saxon, Scandinavian to Charlemagne, the French Revolution, the Scottish enlightment, the founding of USA, the German idealism, to Classical music, Philosophy, Christian Theology, the Architecture to the spirit and ideas of vices and virtues. All of these are products of different white people being at each others throats from years to years end with ever re-occuring wars. We have had one church, then two, then a protestant revolution. The society we have today in Europe is the result of all that history as it have developed organically. Simply put, western civilization is defined by its culture, which is defined by its people. The christian heritage is part of all of us, no matter how much we deny it, it's part of our foundation. That doesn't mean that it requires a stateman to be religious or to quote the bible, but it doesn't mean either that one can deny that christian ethics, spirituality, code of conduct, social interaction, philosophical judgement, sense of justice and base values are not the product of his existence. And no Qistina, Islam hasn't invented anything. It was done by Persians, Arabs, Turks, Assyrians, etc. The sooner you let go of such whimsical musings, the sooner your people will actually read books again and before you know it, you'll have your renaissance you will be walking on the moon. Yes I understand my definition may seem inaccurate and Meshugger gave a very historically standard response ...nothing wrong I am trying to widen the debate of what it means to be Western nowadays...the governments and economic policies surly define part of Western ideology?

I don't understand the joke I also didnt get it?

Good question Any country that is a Democracy and believes and practices things like human rights and freedom of speech and religion and believes in a free market where the Private sector grows the economy but government supports them What is your definition? Your idea of Western Culture is a state with neoliberal ideals? Im not sure what you mean by that? Whats your definition of neoliberal? I mean you're defining "Western Culture" as a state that practices an economic theory favoring free trade, privatization, and minimal government intervention in business. Okay yes we need to separate the economic definition from social polices....like freedom of speech The economic definition is important as without an inclusive, robust and growing economy you don't have much. So I agree with all your points but not the " minimal government intervention " I use to think any government intervention was automatically a bad thing but after 2008 I understand why you need institutions like SEC but they need to be competent and have people working for them who understand the financial sector In the USA its fine but in South Africa our government has no understanding of what is best for the private sector

Good question Any country that is a Democracy and believes and practices things like human rights and freedom of speech and religion and believes in a free market where the Private sector grows the economy but government supports them What is your definition? Really? Free market is from Islam actually...in Islam every traders/vendors/anyone who sell something have a right to set prices, and buyers have a right not to buy, buying and selling is based on agreement from both side...that is free market in Islam Price control is from Jews Interesting, yes the West has learnt a lot from the Islamic world Yes, the west learn many things from Islam, and then convert it into something new...that's what i respect about the west...nationalism, socialism, capitalism, communism, liberalism, women rights...all these from Islam, but it is not in the way the west redefine it...but sadly in islamic world all these things also redefined into something bad, out of conservatism and anti-west sentiment. Most Muslims don't even know the meaning of all those "ism' but reject it just because "it is from the west, therefore it is bad and unIslamic" Yeah I have seen this before...but its not just the Muslim world who automatically rejects things they think come from the West Many African countries do this....its very frustrating because if you understand " ism" and incorporate them you will have a happier and more tolerant society

Good question Any country that is a Democracy and believes and practices things like human rights and freedom of speech and religion and believes in a free market where the Private sector grows the economy but government supports them What is your definition? Your idea of Western Culture is a state with neoliberal ideals? Im not sure what you mean by that? Whats your definition of neoliberal?

Good question Any country that is a Democracy and believes and practices things like human rights and freedom of speech and religion and believes in a free market where the Private sector grows the economy but government supports them What is your definition? Really? Free market is from Islam actually...in Islam every traders/vendors/anyone who sell something have a right to set prices, and buyers have a right not to buy, buying and selling is based on agreement from both side...that is free market in Islam Price control is from Jews Interesting, yes the West has learnt a lot from the Islamic world

I don't understand your question and i don't understand what the article is about, i don't speak that language He is asking you why Muslims in Finland feel responsible for the actions of those two refugees who raped the girl...why do they feel they should apologize for something they never did But he is missing something important....they doing it for people like him who question if the refugees can be integrated

Good question Any country that is a Democracy and believes and practices things like human rights and freedom of speech and religion and believes in a free market where the Private sector grows the economy but government supports them What is your definition?

Religion will always be part of Western culture, we just shouldn't base global policy on it

Conflict and holding a grudge is human nature. Every person would like to see bad things happen to their enemies instead of themselves, very rarely will you encounter a saint that is willing to sacrifice himself. Democracy is the world you live in and in democracy the people are responsible for what their government does. So yeah, there are no innocent people, inaction it self is crime in the eyes of those who are suffering. Don't like it, well though titties. You keep telling yourself that, it won't make it any more true but if it makes you feel good about yourself then more power to you. Yeah I also don't have that view....its very negative

You make some good points Yes I agree Eastern Ukraine was Putin just going to far, the West really tried to ignore or justify Putins militancy in places like Georgia and Crimea. Russia can get away with Crimea but Eastern Ukraine is just to much And the West isn't the one ultimately suffering because its military commitment around resources to Ukraine isn't huge but Russia has to grapple with sanctions and the falling oil price Also for Russia they had the luxury for years of not having to commit troops to the social and political maelstrom of the ME ....that has all changed for them now...now they will be under additional pressure But I'm glad they got involved in Syria..these conflicts can hopefully bring them closer to the West on some levels

And none of this was integral to the foundation of the Mongol Empire thereby contradicting your claim that "no great civilization has existed without a founding religion". That's a pretty big claim to make. What would the Mongol empire be without the wind-worshipping mongols? Meshugger you don't need a religion as the foundation of modern Western countries as far as the religion being a intricate part of decision making in government ? Aren't Western countries secular around there governments ? Culture, Bruce. Sorry do you mean religion in Western countries is part of the culture? What exactly is your question? Is my point really so incomprehensible ? I am asking Namutree if he means religion is part of Western culture

Winning? What are you talking about ....ISIS is sustaining its territory only because no country with a effective military like the USA, Russia or France is prepared to send in ground troops. If this happens I am confident ISIS will be defeated in land battles

Peace is an ideal, war is fact. Enjoy what you have and what you can and make sure that those around know how to protect themselves. Hopefully space exploration, fusion energy and alike will kick off soon so that humanity can be scattered and not be vulnarable with a total war in one place. I'm just more disappointed in the people in this thread gloating over invading countries and stuff. I expect it from governments, corporations, generals, etc, and I expect people to have bought into their respective propaganda and to be thinking that so-and-so has been attacking them but not this. Guess I still had some faith in humanity left, that was surprising and foolish of me, corrected that now. Just to clear what do you mean by " gloating over invading countries and stuff " What countries are you referring to if you don't mind sharing Just the tone of the conversation here sometimes, people seem rather keen for other countries to be invaded and talking about how so and so should be nuked, probably on my time of the month or something but it just bothers me more than usual how callously people seem to be when talking about the deaths of thousands. Okay I see what you mean. Don't take it seriously ...the guys that suggest that don't really mean it, its more based on support for Russia and a dislike of the West.." Russia should invade Turkey " ....its completely unrealistic and will never happen You will notice I would never suggest that...except for wiping out ISIS from Iraq and Syria