BruceVC

No but there are many people in the West who wont call ISIS Islamic because they are acting in a way that many Islamic commentators say they aren't Muslim. Obama for example doesn't refer to them as Islamic For me I don't know why people think it matters. As I said earlier most people know they don't represent the Muslim community Actually as long as we call them ISIS or ISIL we are calling them Islamic as we accept them to be part of Islam in their name. It is clever branding trick from their leaders. Even Daesh term, which said leaders are said to hate, has implication that they are Islamic. I would not be so bold and assume that most of people know that they don't represent Islam and Muslim community, because even though there isn't actually any good study about subject, so polls and political behavior seem to show that people link them more and more heavily to mainstream Islam. Seriously...you Finns as well? Guys I am really shocked that people look at ISIS and assume this is what the global Muslim community believes...but thanks for honesty Elerond why do people in the EU tease Sweden and say things like " the Swedes are all self-hating and they enjoy taking in refugees " ? I would guess it because that is how right-wing media in USA has pictured Sweden and some people in EU use that is as joke or ammunition depending on their political views. Like for example http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/04/20/self-loathing-sweden-should-only-welcome-persecuted-immigrants-not-the-persecuting/ In Finland I haven't seen such behavior, but Finland has long standing tradition to tease and mock Sweden for everything so we aren't influenced by others in that sector that much because they are usually far behind us anyway with their jokes and teases. But to actually answer your question I don't know and I am not sure if they even say such thing in any meaningful amounts outside of internet forums where it can be used to strengthen some individuals own political views. I read that link about Sweden, surly that can't be right....it makes it out like Sweden is some barbaric land?

No but there are many people in the West who wont call ISIS Islamic because they are acting in a way that many Islamic commentators say they aren't Muslim. Obama for example doesn't refer to them as Islamic For me I don't know why people think it matters. As I said earlier most people know they don't represent the Muslim community Actually as long as we call them ISIS or ISIL we are calling them Islamic as we accept them to be part of Islam in their name. It is clever branding trick from their leaders. Even Daesh term, which said leaders are said to hate, has implication that they are Islamic. I would not be so bold and assume that most of people know that they don't represent Islam and Muslim community, because even though there isn't actually any good study about subject, so polls and political behavior seem to show that people link them more and more heavily to mainstream Islam. Seriously...you Finns as well? Guys I am really shocked that people look at ISIS and assume this is what the global Muslim community believes...but thanks for honesty Elerond why do people in the EU tease Sweden and say things like " the Swedes are all self-hating and they enjoy taking in refugees " ? I would guess it because that is how right-wing media in USA has pictured Sweden and some people in EU use that is as joke or ammunition depending on their political views. Like for example http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/04/20/self-loathing-sweden-should-only-welcome-persecuted-immigrants-not-the-persecuting/ In Finland I haven't seen such behavior, but Finland has long standing tradition to tease and mock Sweden for everything so we aren't influenced by others in that sector that much because they are usually far behind us anyway with their jokes and teases. But to actually answer your question I don't know and I am not sure if they even say such thing in any meaningful amounts outside of internet forums where it can be used to strengthen some individuals own political views. Yes I think its a joke ....but I also think it was some sort of historical insult?

Okay now you have made me remember a real criticism I have of the Muslim world ...I hope you can answer Why is the Muslim world fine with the fact that the EU is taking in about 2 million Syrian Muslims. Why should the EU be taking in any Syrians? How many refugees is Malaysia taking in? Countries like Saudi Arabia are taking in none ...none. Yet the Muslim world is fine with these Syrians going to leave there home in the ME and going to a Christian country?And we know that many Muslims have issues with the EU ....yet obviously these issues aren't enough to want to help the Syrians I explained earlier that one of the reasons that makes the West the most dominant ideology in the world is it believes in human rights...this a good example of that

No, he has been very quite....Oby chased him away But you should only worry about committed forum members...people that care about you and don't just desert you...like me

No but there are many people in the West who wont call ISIS Islamic because they are acting in a way that many Islamic commentators say they aren't Muslim. Obama for example doesn't refer to them as Islamic For me I don't know why people think it matters. As I said earlier most people know they don't represent the Muslim community Actually as long as we call them ISIS or ISIL we are calling them Islamic as we accept them to be part of Islam in their name. It is clever branding trick from their leaders. Even Daesh term, which said leaders are said to hate, has implication that they are Islamic. I would not be so bold and assume that most of people know that they don't represent Islam and Muslim community, because even though there isn't actually any good study about subject, so polls and political behavior seem to show that people link them more and more heavily to mainstream Islam. Seriously...you Finns as well? Guys I am really shocked that people look at ISIS and assume this is what the global Muslim community believes...but thanks for honesty Elerond why do people in the EU tease Sweden and say things like " the Swedes are all self-hating and they enjoy taking in refugees " ?

No but there are many people in the West who wont call ISIS Islamic because they are acting in a way that many Islamic commentators say they aren't Muslim. Obama for example doesn't refer to them as Islamic For me I don't know why people think it matters. As I said earlier most people know they don't represent the Muslim community

Malc do you know what no one has thought of ....and its fine you can take credit for my idea Canada has huge territories of uninhabited land, forests and mountains ....lets be honest. Canada could invite another 100,000 Syrians and let them live in that uninhabited land ...its not like you would see them or be bothered by them It would be right thing to do

Malc...you Canadians have some weird social issues. Firstly Volo makes a post about Canadian varsity students not knowing what a Yoga class is now this....what about a single man who left his family in Syria, is Canada going to deny him chance to create a life for himself . You guys need my advice ....if I send you a PM maybe you print it out and give it you new PM...he is young and believes in SJ so he will think its from you who is a concerned citizen....the hardest part being can you pretend to be concerned about your country

mmmm......I dont think I agree with that, I guess I expect you guys to be a lot more cleverer than that...I hold you guys in high regard How hard is it to not assume that the actions of 20,000 extrmists don't represent 2 Billion muslims globally....did you guys honestlly not realize this? It seems like we need to state the obvious ?

US Media will never use the term Heretic/Heretical simply because - even as biased as our media is - being able to make a declaration like that implies the kind of position the media will never take because it requires them to declare that one side in non-Heretical. Even with the steping in Christian culture, groups like the Branch-Davidians are the Peoples Temple of the Disciples of Christ are going to be referred to as "sect" or "cult" and not "Heretical Christian movement" or similar. Yeah but Amentep I'm sure you can agree that a little bit of censorship in the USA wouldn't be a bad idea in the interest of social harmony? You can have a free society but you dont have to have the USA definition of free speech

Okay so what do you consider the likes of Al-Qaeda, Boko Haram, Al-Shabaab or ISIS I consider them extremist groups?

I'm not sure what you mean by labels? Who is labeling what?

I will interpret the Saudi Banking system more closely next time I am forced to go but I'm not sure what you think I'll learn? I just draw money from the ATM and the state of the Saudi banking system is irrelevant to me ? That has never been important to the West? Firstly the USA has been the worlds biggest producer of oil for over 2 years now http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-07-04/u-s-seen-as-biggest-oil-producer-after-overtaking-saudi I mention this because finally we can put to rest the conspiracy theory that the West only intervenes if oil is involved ...and you know I hate conspiracy theories Also the reason the oil price is so low is because it was Saudi Arabia who want to put the American energy producers out of business http://nypost.com/2015/01/11/saudi-arabias-crude-oil-price-war/ And the reason I'm mentioning this is because the USA doesn't even need Saudi Arabia anymore for oil so there alliance with Saudi Arabia is not just financial

Okay well thanks for explaining, I dont mind how you want to refer to Saudi Arabia in the Middle East The point is really that the other Gulf states follow there lead so that makes them very relevant in the ME

Nope...Saudi is NOT a leading Sunni country in Middle East, they not even Sunni, they are Wahhabi Their royal families are gangsters and they use whatever means to topple eachother. Since they are who create Al Qaeda with USA and CIA, they will use them to against each other. Read this book, it's a good book about Saudi http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/8088325-the-thieves-of-riyadh Also read this book, this explain the creation of Saudi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memoirs_of_Mr._Hempher,_The_British_Spy_to_the_Middle_East http://www.hakikatkitabevi.com/download/english/14-ConfessionsOf%20ABritishSpy.pdf No you guys are misunderstanding something simple about the ME Saudi Arabia is considered a Sunni\Gulf state and it is the most influential country...this is not about the fact they follow Wahhabism http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/view/understanding-the-gulf-states

Oh okay that makes sense now But the reality is the West does accept other cultures ....you can have your own religion and cultural values if you live in a Western country but you need to accept that your culture cannot break the law of the country In fact I would argue the West is much more accepting of other cultures than anywhere else in the world

This post young grasshopper

The bacon is terrible in that and they should feel ashamed for wasting bacon. I had barbecue for lunch and it was great. Edited for accuracy. That does look .....you Texans know your meat, no doubt

Wow 2 pages of WTF! Bruce, you want to tell me that people who were raised here have miinformed view? I believe they simply despise our approach to certain way of life. I admit i have enough of PC to a point that i could start hating it. Add some other cultural differences and there it is. You go ballistic. Also Calling Sauds allies is a bit far fetched. At best they share same economic and political interests but do you actually see them fighting extremism? Considering the branch of Islam they practice is the most restrictive and most militant I'd have my doubts about their real allegiance. Well this thread is about honesty so I will be honest....what do you think I am saying is misinformed about? And yes Saudi Arabia is an ally to the West but you need to understand why they are an ally to the West. People sometimes misunderstand me because they think my view is inconsistent but its not. My view on the overall Middle East is I want stability and I don't want the oil supply to be disrupted Saudi Arabia is the leading Sunni country in the ME and the other Sunni\Gulf states follow there lead so this includes UAE, Qatar and Kuwait. These also happen to be overall the most stable countries in the ME and the ones that the West understands the best. My company has a branch in Dubai and I have worked in all these countries So first point is it would economically imprudent to now become an enemy of Saudi Arabia. Also you have to realize after 9/11 the Saudi's became a target for Al-Qaeda because they considered the Saudi royal family as apostate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_Saudi_Arabia So up to then the Saudi royal family didn't really care to help the USA but they realized that there survival was linked to the West defeating Al-Qaeda and they became a real asset in the war on terror as they provided invaluable information So yes we need to respect the fact that the Saudi's dont embrace liberal values such as human rights but they also dont support extremism ...and that is what matters in the context of the Middle East and remember my objective ....the stability of the region Also for the first time Saudi Arabia is actively involved in the airstrikes against ISIS....so they stepping up in there regional responsibility http://edition.cnn.com/2014/10/09/world/meast/isis-coalition-nations/index.html

TN what did you mean by that Troll post ? What ideology is less by integration?

US dollar is declining, because of that Malaysian Ringgit is also declining...China is rising now...everyone focus on China now... Theres no reason to be embarrassed about your Western tastes, embrace them. The West is the Best. You see this is correct but we don't like to say this in public because its seen as hubris

So once agian you are misunderstanding me and you are getting defensive and making assumptions about what I am saying But I don't mind, I am use to people misunderstanding me...people on this forum often misunderstand me...its okay If you think I am asking a strange question then just ask me to clarify, I am not trying to catch you out and trick you The question I asked is actually a simple one but very important for measuring the how successful any government is http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/03/20/international-happiness-day-happiest-countries/25073055/ http://themysteriousworld.com/10-happiest-countries-in-the-world/ You see the when we talk about successful governments it shouldn't be about economic wealth or military strength It should be about something much more important " are the citizens of your country happy "

Really...????? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05IyDp0R5gk Yes so you must understand in South Africa in these radio debates I hear people saying the same thing as you..they will say something like " The USA has huge social problems ...look at the racism in the police force and how African Americans are victimized " ....and I say " yes, there are issues of police brutality but no one said the USA was perfect ....like all countries there are things that need to be improved " but why would anyone think any country is perfect? My point is the West offers it citizens the best quality of life....the West doesnt offer perfection ...that doesn't exist anywhere

Of course we are happy...do we look unhappy to you? No I never asked you that, I asked you do you think the Citizens of the East are happier than the citizens of the West ? Because what I'm saying is the West offers its citizens a very good equal quality of life ...and that freedom is one of the reasons for the success of the West

My brother is the leader of the Chicago branch of Illuminati Jews and he told me that's not true. Gfted1 stop teasing ...there is already enough misinformation in this thread Qistina you must understand when someone jokes with you like Gfted1 its not because he doesn't like Muslims its because as I said to you earlier you sometimes make these posts that are based on what we call conspiracy theories ....and I can promise you most people in the West don't think at all like you think we think For example you really are exaggerating how much influence the Jews have in Western culture