BruceVC

Vaclav Klaus, former president and prime minister of the Czech Republic gives a better summary: http://blisty.cz/art/78797.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Václav_Klaus I love that man, never heard him say anything other than the unvarnished truth. You like a homophobic right winger who thinks Russia is awesome ...come on Drowsy surly you can find other people to admire or at least respect? Make me your role model

But Amentep what would happen if she was found to be stealing?

This is a good post, thanks for sharing. You have given me some good perspectives So let me ask you a different question. What is the benefit in your view to the UK being part of the EU? As you know I am from British ancestry and I have real ties to the UK and I think its a little unfair how due to the strong social benefits the UK has how many people want to migrate there...I have no issues with immigrants but there has to be some control or balance So what does the UK get from the EU...I have my view but I am interested in yours

Vaclav Klaus, former president and prime minister of the Czech Republic gives a better summary: http://blisty.cz/art/78797.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Václav_Klaus No offense but Vaclav Klaus doesn't even seem to understand the history behind conflicts like Syria ...seriously how can we take what he says as relevant when he wont admit the impact of the Arab Spring? Also I read on that link you posted " His appointment was terminated in September 2014, due to his views on the Ukrainian crisis, his hostility to homosexuality, and support of European far right parties" He doesn't sound very liberal or reasonable We have native populations going down and immigration going up, an unelected commission Brussels that tries to dictate more power to themselves and a global industry reaping the benefits. And now we have illegal settlers running around central europe trying to find which country that gives them most money. It has to be reversed, otherwise another Caesar, Napoleon or Hitler will rise, you can bet on it. It is you, who is fixated on Klaus' level liberalism in this situation, who is unreasonable. I hear you and I'm not patronizing you. I understand your frustration, I don't agree with the way that the EU has opened its doors to all these immigrants For me I am sick and tired of the AU not taking responsibility of its own failed states....so now they become an EU problem. Why should they? So many African people think the AU is doing a great job and love to criticize the West...but the reality is the West still has to resolve Africas problems and it needs to stop if the continent will ever achieve its full potential And the Syrians should have gone into the ME to find refuge. But the reality is even the current ME countries like Turkey that are housing 2.1 million Syrians aren't really integrating them..they live in refugee camps and can't work or travel freely. And the Sunni countries like Saudi Arabia and UAE haven't taken a single Syrian So now Europe is expected to just absorb all these people ...no I don't agree with it

Okay your point is fundamental to my view, my understanding she couldn't be fired ....check this link http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027131312 I still dont really understand it but thats the law. So lets accept she cannot be fired ...what would you have done ?

Vaclav Klaus, former president and prime minister of the Czech Republic gives a better summary: http://blisty.cz/art/78797.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Václav_Klaus No offense but Vaclav Klaus doesn't even seem to understand the history behind conflicts like Syria ...seriously how can we take what he says as relevant when he wont admit the impact of the Arab Spring? Also I read on that link you posted " His appointment was terminated in September 2014, due to his views on the Ukrainian crisis, his hostility to homosexuality, and support of European far right parties" He doesn't sound very liberal or reasonable

How is her refusing to issue marriage licenses an example of a lack of free speech? And if you feel she should have lost her job then you must feel she acted inappropriately...but as has been explained many times before she couldn't be fired. So how do you suggest this situation should have been handled ...lets say " Volo is in charge "

I appreciate your honest view but I do understand what most of the issues are but as I explained the rules of the EU have to be driven from Brussels in order for it to succeed But let me ask you a different question because I may be missing something, what are your primary issues with the EU?Can you list a few points from a UK perspective that bother you ? Please go into detail so its clear

Wait what. Germany is planning on destabilizing Europe so German businesses can buy up capital and the EU can push neoliberalism as hard as possible. You missed the part with political "normalization", meaning that a federalization of the states in the EU and more centralized power. People without a strong sense of national community are more passive and will be easier to control in the power vacuum that it creates....or the leaders are simply completely clueless and we are riding the chaos-train. Both of you sound suspiciously like you're spewing tinfoil-hat nonsense, do you have any extraordinary evidence to back up your extraordinary claims? (Also, I somehow doubt Woldan meant to allude to that. I'm kinda curious about his insane conspiracy theory as well.) Lets turn it around, what kind of people benefit from nations giving up their sovereignity and the erosion of the nationstate with no distinct ethnic groups? But no matter, here's a carrot for you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Nikolaus_von_Coudenhove-Kalergi Meshugger do you honestly see the EU as that ? I may be missing something but do you see the EU as " nations giving up their sovereignity and the erosion of the nationstate with no distinct ethnic groups" ? In it's current form, yes. Although it didn't start this way of course. It was quite innocent 50 years ago with the foundation of the coal & steel union, which was based on the idea that countries that are economically interdependent would not so quickly declare war upon another. After the Maastricht-agreement it all went to hell however. Look, we have the following scenarios ahead of us: 1) The current situation is allowed to happen in according to financial and political self-interests, which will end up with civil wars and a balkanization of Europe for future generations 2) The current situation is allowed to happen in according to financial and political self-interests, which will end up with a slow erosion of nations and ultimately a collapse like Rome 3) The current situation has happened because of ineptitude, misplaced altruism and general apathy of the leaders, which will end up with civil wars and a balkanization of Europe for future generations 4) The situation has happened because of ineptitude, misplaced altruism and general apathy of the leaders, which will end up with a slow erosion of nations and ultimately a collapse like Rome I really hope that i am wrong. I really do. But i see little signs of any other thing happening. Thats interesting. Your view is obviously relevant because you are a European, I may not agree with it but end of the day I'm keen to understand where this apparent dislike of the EU comes from So I would just like you to consider two points which hopefully may change your mind Lets get the obvious out the way. The EU is considered for millions of people who live outside of it the perfect place to live and settle down in ...look at all the Syrians and other immigrants who risk death just to get there. Of course this doesn't mean you should change your view but there must be something good if people want to immigrate there? The next point is more important. An economic and political union like the EU is actually much harder to get working and functional than I think you guys realize. Think about the reality, you have all these countries with different governments and different economic models that suddenly had to now be aligned under common rules, a common currency and more importantly under a common economic framework. The criteria to join and stay in the EU has to be very strict or else it will fall apart. Now you may say " nonsense...it can't be that hard " but trust me there is NO other union in the history of mankind that has brought so many disparate countries together to achieve economic prosperity. Look at the abject failure of AU .....one of the main reasons for its failure to transform the continent is the fact that the AU doesn't enforce its own rules and this means there isnt real consensus or political will to make the hard choices. So I know you guys feel the EU is draconian but it has to enforce rules and structures or the entire EU will fall apart. You will always have your own cultural identity and that is something to be proud of but you have to realize that rules are really needed to make the EU work

Actually they are very similar, they both are about the humanitarian precedent In Libya the West intervened initially because of the Siege of Misrata https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Misrata That was the catalyst and it should be an easy sale to understand that Western intervention in the beginning of the Syrian conflict and assisting to remove Assad cannot be seen as a bad thing if you look at the reality of Syria now And I'm not suggesting for a second that there arent other factors that influence the West but we cannot ignore the humanitarian aspect Not quite sure sanctions is akin to airstrikes and funneling arms to rebels in an attempt to change a regime just because you dislike them, nor is intervening to stop a verified mass slaughter of people (heh, in practice this is when you dislike a regime, I suppose). How can we look at Syria and the rise of ISIS and figure this wasn't a bad idea. As for Misrata, well, those rebels started a war. Yes I can completely understand this view But lets go back a few years, when the Syrian war started we need to remember the reality of the political and military reality of Syria. Assad and the Syrian military were not a weak or disorganized organisation, the Syrians have always had military. Assad had the entire resources of his army on his side, plus a large percentage of the population and the Iranians were completely supportive of him and I do consider them formidable in the context of the ME And what were the Syrian rebels....seriously? They were thousands of very ideologically anti-Assad people but they lacked the weaponry of the Assad regime. So yes the West funneled weapons through the Saudis but to be honest would that really be enough against air power and the likes of artillery. You are a military man ...do you think the odds were fair ? Which is why the Syrian rebels asked for the West in the beginning to destroy Assads military armaments ...they were quite prepared to do the hard ground to ground fighting. So where I'm going with this is the West did everything it could do but it predictably didnt make much difference. And then you may feel "but why get involved at all" Syria was an enemy of the Sunni states and a friend of Iran. Back then this was meaningful to the West because of the perceived political dynamics of the region so I can understand the West helping the rebels And then yes ISIS is undoubtedly the most destabilizing outcome of the whole Syrian conflict but once again ISIS wouldn't exist today if the Syrian war hadn't dragged on. Think about it there stronghold is considered Al-Raqqah which is a city within Syria....if there was no civil war in Syria do you think this would be possible? Groups like ISIS can only really flourish in failed state So if the Syrian war has ended in 6 months that it could have if the West have intervened ISIS wouldn't be any where as near as prolific or successful

Wait what. Germany is planning on destabilizing Europe so German businesses can buy up capital and the EU can push neoliberalism as hard as possible. You missed the part with political "normalization", meaning that a federalization of the states in the EU and more centralized power. People without a strong sense of national community are more passive and will be easier to control in the power vacuum that it creates....or the leaders are simply completely clueless and we are riding the chaos-train. Both of you sound suspiciously like you're spewing tinfoil-hat nonsense, do you have any extraordinary evidence to back up your extraordinary claims? (Also, I somehow doubt Woldan meant to allude to that. I'm kinda curious about his insane conspiracy theory as well.) Lets turn it around, what kind of people benefit from nations giving up their sovereignity and the erosion of the nationstate with no distinct ethnic groups? But no matter, here's a carrot for you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Nikolaus_von_Coudenhove-Kalergi Meshugger do you honestly see the EU as that ? I may be missing something but do you see the EU as " nations giving up their sovereignity and the erosion of the nationstate with no distinct ethnic groups" ?

Wait what. Germany is planning on destabilizing Europe so German businesses can buy up capital and the EU can push neoliberalism as hard as possible. You missed the part with political "normalization", meaning that a federalization of the states in the EU and more centralized power. People without a strong sense of national community are more passive and will be easier to control in the power vacuum that it creates....or the leaders are simply completely clueless and we are riding the chaos-train. Both of you sound suspiciously like you're spewing tinfoil-hat nonsense, do you have any extraordinary evidence to back up your extraordinary claims? (Also, I somehow doubt Woldan meant to allude to that. I'm kinda curious about his insane conspiracy theory as well.) Yes the EU, which Germany has a good deal of influence on, is clearly not pursuing a neoliberal agenda that has done severe damage to the economies of PIGS while benefiting Germany. And past experience has shown that these refugees will not be used as a source of cheap labor and will get along splendidly with the locals. It's got to be crazy talk that neoliberals would bend over backwards to accommodate corporations. KP I'm sorry to have to disagree with you but you have to stop seeing Germany as the " bad guys " in the whole PIGS austerity reality Germany are not the bad guys, Germany are a very important and indispensable foundation of the EU...they aren't the only relevant part of the EU. Of course many other countries are part of the system but I really don't understand why some of you guys think the PIGS were somehow mistreated. All the PIGS countries were the architects of there own economic woes ...thats on them...not the Germans

Actually they are very similar, they both are about the humanitarian precedent In Libya the West intervened initially because of the Siege of Misrata https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Misrata That was the catalyst and it should be an easy sale to understand that Western intervention in the beginning of the Syrian conflict and assisting to remove Assad cannot be seen as a bad thing if you look at the reality of Syria now And I'm not suggesting for a second that there arent other factors that influence the West but we cannot ignore the humanitarian aspect

So you don't believe in the principle of intervention in the case of lets say genocide? What about an example like putting pressure on the old South African Apartheid government ....should the world have just left the alone ?

I'm genuinely interested why you would dislike people who have done nothing to you ? It doesn't seem rationale....and yes I don't mind my medical aid being spent helping obese people

Yes you right about that, I have no issue with the likes of Assad or Gaddafi being removed from power. Its not the West place to chose a successor but I would hope a new leader in Syria practices a bit of Democracy Bruce. If it's the west's place to remove them then it's the west's place to do whatever we want to them. Screwing with another nation isn't something you do in moderation. It's either you respect another nation's sovereignty or you don't. So are you suggesting if the West is involved in a military campaign, like Libya, it is now the Wests responsibility to now manage the country? The only issue with that is that the Libyans didn't want the West to be involved in governing Libya after Gaddafi was removed....so what would you suggest?

Yes you right about that, I have no issue with the likes of Assad or Gaddafi being removed from power. Its not the West place to chose a successor but I would hope a new leader in Syria practices a bit of Democracy You say the West interfered in Syria..no my friend effective Western interference involves a meaningful military campaign but since the Chinese and Russians vetoed this the civil war has dragged on and on How exactly is the protracted war in Syria a fault of the West.....its preciously because the West couldn't intervene that the war has gone on for so long So please give me details about this Western involvement in Syria ?

I see she has been released as same sex marriage licenses are being issued but Davis still objects to this ...so what will happen when Davis returns to work? Will she block issuing of licenses...its a conundrum

I like bright colors, that looks bright

The logical conclusion of liberal identity politics. Except I%2

The logical conclusion of liberal identity politics. Except I'm Asian. The whole conservative vs liberal ("white guilt") thing is mostly a white people's thing. I'm just an observer. You keep crying and whining about the refugees flooding into Europe. But ask yourselves: who and what created the refugee crisis in the first place? You know as well as I do the refugees are an outcome of the Syrian civil war, which is backed by the West. It is not a secret. You created the mess, so now you suffer the consequences (in the form of the refugees.) You did not see the karma coming when you decide to screw over Syria, Libya, Iraq and rest of the Middle East, did you? This is the biggest bunch of anti-Western BS I have heard on these forums in ages I disagree with so much of what you saying but lets start with the basics of your spurious diatribe Do you not accept that the Arab Spring was real and started in 2010? This movement and consciousness spread through most Arab countries in the ME and North Africa. The objectives of the Arab Spring varied from country to country and had different success criteria The civil war in Syria was started as a result of the Arab Spring and greater rights and political representation that large numbers of Syrians understandably aspired to The Arab Spring was NOT initiated or created or funded by the West, it was an inevitable movement that would been swept through the ME eventually. People do naturally want greater rights and economic opportunities...they don't need the West to tell them " you should want more political rights and better work prospects " So please lets leave the anti-Western conspiracy theories at home

Volo you seem unusually belligerent..is something wrong? Do you want to discuss anything, its best in life to be honest about your feelings

No Volo is only the voice of reason for a small number of people. And you can't count me in that group

How did it taste? I like doing meals like this because they do cater for a group and basically are about letting flavors and ingredients infuse together in a pot...like a stew. So theoretically it shouldn't be too difficult to get it right.....of course that's theoretical

In the past I probably would have made some dismissive comment by now as you still missing my point but thats the old Bruce and I'm trying very hard not to be condescending as it was brought to my attention by a few members and confirmed by my girlfriend that I am. Ironically it was you who first called me " thoroughly revolting condescending " which I found funny at the time and dismissed ..but you were right I understand why you question the veracity of my post, it does seem like a minor fine and you on a personal level are dealing with austerity in Spain so of course the likes of Goldman getting these small fines seems inexplicable and unfair. But I can promise you this is much better for the likes of Spain in its recovery and for the overall EU. But I need to explain this properly so there is no doubt from you but I'm heading off now for a long day of drinks and food...so I will update this later In summary the reality of the world economy is that the Chinese economy is really slowing down and there socialist experiment of there own stock market is now recognized as a failure. There slowdown is dragging down many economies and emerging markets, like South Africa. So this is no time for me to gloat, this is serious but to be honest it is very exasperating as South Africa should have aligned with the Western financial markets but due to this absurd "anti-Western " sentiment from South Africa we favored the Chinese. And you use to think when I called you anti-Western that was strange, imagine Spain now if it had chosen the Chinese. So thats something you have avoided The Western investment banks and investment strategies are still the best solution for sustained growth and stability and you have to believe me on this as I do work in the financial sector and my family has several investment bankers....or at least believe me until I post later