BruceVC

Sure. So firstly I want to set the record straight in case I have created the wrong impression. You know I support the West but that doens't mean I would think that the whole world needs to become like a Western country....no I completely understand that countries like Russia and China will always have there own ideology Also Russia is a very important player in the future of a more stable world and for me the sooner this tension ends with the West the better for everyone. Now when I say important I think you Russians even forget that but I'm not just saying that because you Russian...I would be polite and honest if I felt Russia wasn't relevant on the global arena. Now some of the reasons that Russia is very relevant They sit on the UNSC and they could effectively VETO all requests for military intervention or sanctions and this would truly make the UNSC useless and despite what people will suggest the UNSC does get to consensus and is effective ..like the Iranian sanctions Russia has certain relationships and influence that the West doesn't have, like with Iran and Syria. Russia seems to be automatically " trusted " by some countries because they not the West Russia is a nuclear power and China will often align itself to Russia...we don't want even a hint of a real military conflict or another Cold War...the world can coexist Russia is part of BRICS and of course so is South Africa so we have vested economic interest Then I studied and observed as much of Russia and what motivates Putin as any other person. I probably know more than you think but I still am not sure of many things. Anyway I don't automatically expect you to know all these answers but your view on what you feel you can answer will be appreciated Where in Russia do you live and how come is your English so good ? What does the average Russian think the West wants from Russia? Do they see the West as some sort of bully How do you feel about China What do you understand about the sanctions, do you feel they are unfair and are you feeling there impact? Why do you think Putin felt the need to absorb Crimea and basically try to absorb eastern Ukraine....why doesn't he trust the West? Thats all for now

Yeah it seems right but the real issue for me about ISIS is how they conduct themselves on the battlefield and how they treat any non Sunni, things like slavery, systemic rape, murder, torture,beheadings ...they are always in gross violation of various war crimes. The Saudi army at least tries to stick to the Geneva Convention Fighter can I ask you a few questions about your view on some Russian topics?

That isn't sound strategy it is better to be ally some of those that you don't like and enemy for some and make them fight each other. As it is much cheaper. And if your ally starts to become too strong and starts to behave so that negatives out weight positives then just change support from them to their enemies. Roman's already prove that dived and conquer is excellent strategy to control areas that you don't care. Elerond why isn't your fellow Finn Meshugger as reasonable as you? Please speak to him ..he will listen to you

Sometimes a wife gets beaten by her husband yet she still cares for him and makes excuses for him. So it's ok because she's ok? You think the Korean hysteria is fake? It's not entirely though. And that's the point. Why not? A couple of post about it is hardly noteworthy if you're implying I care unreasonably much. Fighter before I respond I just want to add something, I have noticed you are one of the people from the GG thread who engages with me since I apologized and I appreciate that. I am not sure who talks to me and who doesn't sometimes but I would like us to continue to debate. I never Troll, I only joke and not on a thread like this. Sometimes I make a point and its not clear...this is not a problem with your comprehension but rather with how I am making the point , so just ask me clarify as I am not trolling and its important I make my points so you understand them...thats obviously not the same as agreeing Now back to the debate. Yes, sure I always believe reasonable justification for any political alliance is necessary where the West is involved. But I really don't believe Saudi Arabia is anywhere as bad as ISIS....also I can assure you that Saudi Arabia has helped the West fight Al-Qaeda The point about Saudi " funding terrorism" is often misunderstood, there are Saudi citizens who have ideological sympathies with Islamic extremist groups and yes they fund them but its not the same thing as the actual Saudi royal family funding them Yeah I agree, I have no idea how real there " love and respect is " ...you right. It could be more of a expected response No I didn't mean your efforts in this debate, I am enjoying your perspective. I mean why do we care if some Saudi's are killed due to Sharia law ?

Why? You seem very sure?

Good now you opening up, lets continue with this train of thought So for some people the thought of not knowing what happens at death is unbearable....so they just say " this body is all I have and there is no soul\spirit\energy" ...you see this way they dont have to worry. You may not even know you are doing this because of the fear, it could be subconscious? Think about it before saying " no " I think you got that backwards, Bruce. I suspect it's the religious who are petrified of what comes after death. I made peace with it long ago. EDIT: Here's a neat question: What religion would you like to be true? Good question, I'm not religious by the way. I suppose you would call me an agnostic..or rather someone who believes there is no proof of any supreme being but I also understand and respect the fact that many people believe in religion and I would never mock or dismiss it Now your question....its tricky by the way because if any religion is now real that would mean actually having to obey certain scriptures or holy text so I have to think of one that makes the less impact... I like the idea of reincarnation and having to learn certain fundamental lessons on this earth until I move on

Not me. I am of the mind that people are just slabs of meat and our existence is short and pointless. Nothing about us is special and life is ultimately without meaning or purpose. I think it's a pretty optimistic view of things. Maybe you scared to accept you are more than just flesh...maybe you are scared by what happens when you die so you have convinced yourself this is just it ....it could be an excuse? An excuse for what? Good now you opening up, lets continue with this train of thought So for some people the thought of not knowing what happens at death is unbearable....so they just say " this body is all I have and there is no soul\spirit\energy" ...you see this way they dont have to worry. You may not even know you are doing this because of the fear, it could be subconscious? Think about it before saying " no "

Who me? Yes of course, much of my family are investment bankers as I have mentioned before and we have substantial investments in Saudi and other natural resources...thats not uncommon and doesn't disprove that Saudi is considered an ally of the West But why not ask me the question directly....unless I am mistaking what you are asking? It's good that you come forward and admit your intensions instead of trying to have a moral authority on the matter. I suggest talking to priest for some further soul-searcihng. Dude what is confusing you? My point about Saudi Arabia I would have thought by now is clear. I dont like there culture or like the many areas they lack in SJ....but this would not be enough for me to not go there for work or to accept they are an ally of the West And I have no issues with people in trading in Saudi commodities...but I admit there campaign to undermine the USA shale corporations has caused some serious financial woes. One of my cousins good friends works for a Western Saudi oil trading company and was based in Saudi. He use to love it, he was good friends with someone who knew one of the royal princes and the Saudi's took a real liking to him because he was good, he really knew the oil market. Anyway he never believed the Saudis would last this long, they are really impacting there economy now by keeping oil production low. This guy I know has been basically made redundant because there isn't much work now for people like him Saudi

Who me? Yes of course, much of my family are investment bankers as I have mentioned before and we have substantial investments in Saudi and other natural resources...thats not uncommon and doesn't disprove that Saudi is considered an ally of the West But why not ask me the question directly....unless I am mistaking what you are asking?

Maybe, probably, but, once in awhile, that moment she touches your arm and looks you in the eye ... seems to be a meaning in there somewhere. I like you, you so witty....you should join our political debates...I feel you are wasting this talent by not partaking in our debates

Oh my god... See they also "love the dear leader". No, I was there when they were mourning It was real, they do have "love and respect " for the royal family Its weird how so many of you guys seem to dislike Saudi Arabia and it seems to be because of these odd examples of how there religious law gets implemented in an extreme way? I don't get why you care?

Not me. I am of the mind that people are just slabs of meat and our existence is short and pointless. Nothing about us is special and life is ultimately without meaning or purpose. I think it's a pretty optimistic view of things. Maybe you scared to accept you are more than just flesh...maybe you are scared by what happens when you die so you have convinced yourself this is just it ....it could be an excuse? Lets talk about it ?

I am not sure if you're serious or trolling right now. What being an "ally to the west" is supposed to mean they are good now? Saudi Arabia is ruled by a brutal and backwards dictatorship. It's ruled by a king who (the previous one) imprisons his own daughters and marries 15 year old girls. King who is the west's ally. Which doesn't suggest he is any good. On the contrary it suggests western politicians are hypocrites who only care about "western values" when it suits them. Saudi Arabia is no better than any other brutal middle eastern regime. No my friend, I wish you guys would stop saying the West are hypocrites for having a non-critical relationship with Saudi Arabia This is purely strategic for the reasons I mentioned. Yes sometimes getting involved in another countries implementation of religious laws is not a good idea Also I think many of you have the wrong idea of Saudi Arabia...I was there for two separate 1 month projects, I didn't enjoy it at all. It was the worst place I ever had to work in....worse than any African country which I enjoy and understand But the Saudi local people do love the royal family, when I was there someone related to the king died and the whole country went into shutdown in mourning. Also the king does do things for the local people http://www.nbcnews.com/id/41733661/ns/world_news-mideast_n_africa/t/saudi-king-offers-billions-gifts-citizens/#.VjRsnrcrIb0 http://www.metro.us/news/saudi-king-gives-away-32-billion/zsJobx---ydnJAFDdF3D7/ Also most people who live there don't mind the conservative laws as they are Muslim and believe in the Saudi interpretation And this includes the uneducated foreign laborers who the Saudi's use for all manual labor like construction and taxi drivers ..and they really get treated badly yet they dont seem to mind So you mustn't think Saudi is some sort of " police fear state " like North Korea....its bad if you compare it to Western countries but its not unlivable

GD you hillbilly's are a superstitious lot ...you all believe in Ghosts and Big Foot right?

Yeah I'm happy, I think the Boks did very well .....they recovered after Japan and that was very important for the overall morale of white South Africans who follow Rugby

I'm treating myself to a Cheese Fondu today because I have to work this weekend and I had to cancel a weekend away at the river with a group of really good friends So a Cheese Fondue should make me feel better and I will buying the proper Swiss Cheese like Raclette and Gruyere

I can understand how you think I'm inconsistent and how it appears my view is hypocritical But its not, it makes perfect sense. I just need to explain in more detail because you have raised valid issues. I am going to try to simplify my points and be direct but if anything doesn't make sense ask and I'll clarify So the first thing is you have to understand the overall strategy and view of what the West wants from the ME and what it is prepared to do to achieve this The alliance with Saudi and the USA is old and was initially about oil. But as you know the USA is now the worlds biggest producer of oil and that is also the reason why there is this price war going and why the oil price is so low....the Saudis are determined to put the American shale producers out of business. http://instituteforenergyresearch.org/analysis/u-s-overtakes-saudi-arabia-russia-worlds-biggest-oil-producer/ Anyway I digress, the Saudis became a much better ally of the USA after 911 when they became targets of Al-Qaeda, this obviously suited the West as the Saudi have effective information gathering techniques and they used them to help prevent attacks against the USA and they also became very committed to stopping Al-Qaeda ( yes they didn't do this because they like the USA, this was about there own security but the result was the same...) http://www.saudiembassy.net/files/PDF/Reports/Counterterrorism.pdf I don't expect you to read the whole thing, just skim through it. The point being the Saudi were very active in helping the West and containing Al-Qaeda in the years after 9/11...this must be recognized irrespective of there reasons Al-Qaeda is now gone....redundant. So the importance of this USA\Saudi alliance may seem irrelevant but it wasn't always so. Also whether you like there laws the Saudis are the leader of the Sunni\Gulf states in the ME and they have historically always shown less resentment to the West and have embraced many Western values and economic institutions. For example the UAE is the financial hub of the region and welcomes Westerners. So an important consideration is if you alienate Saudi Arabia you will automatically alienate states like Qatar and UAE....this is not something to do lightly due to economic consequences So now in summary, the USA use to rely on Saudi Arabia for oil, Saudi Arabia became a real ally of the West in the ME during the war agaisnt Al-Qaeda (2004-2011 ? ) and the Saudis are the leaders of a block of countries that the West at least understands as these countries understand things like economic growth and the importance of Western investment And you expect Obama to lecture the Saudi's about there laws that I have explained are enforced not by the Saudi royal family but by the clerics...and for what ? Because some guy gets beheaded and they don't respect women. Do you really care...they can behead another thousand people, I won't miss a second sleep..I worked in Saudi for 2 months and we all know they have barbaric laws but its not a Western issue and as I mentioned its definitely not worth jeopardizing the political relationship Now Iran....but I need a break ..let me know if you want my answer on Iran

No thats a little unfair..ISIS is much more brutal and barbaric Saudi Arabia is soon to decapitate and then crucify someone for taking part in a protest when they were 17. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3253285/If-die-ve-happy-life-Astonishing-bravery-boy-faces-beheaded-crucified-Saudi-Arabia-taking-protest-17.html Yes but guys they are an ally of the West. Also remember that in Saudi Arabia there are two primary fractions, the clerical judiciary are the anachronistic and ostensibly brutal group that enforce there version of Sharia law. And then you have large groups of moderates who are opposed to this type of violent enforcing of Islamic law but they are also not going to confront the clerics ...so we shouldn't judge the whole country Yes some of the things they enforce are appalling but our perspectives as Westerners will never agree on certain things in the ME and thats a good thing

Dude...you can't seriously think I have that much in common with her, she is about theatrics...I'm more concerned about real SJ changes and realities Of course I don't like how she was harassed but part of me thinks this suited her grand strategy. She ended up all right after all and is considered influential in anti-GG

Funny enough he is right in some ways, I don't support the rights of minorities because I'm worried that white, males are becoming marginalized But so what....he has no right to judge my commitment to SJ causes ? He is making an obvious comment that will just irritate people

Oh my...thats something I really will be avoiding. Imagine the " white, male " hating that will be occurring And its not that I don't think harassment isn't a problem in some places on the Internet its just I'm so tired of the pointlessness of these types of events. What possible new outcome will we get from this....." okay guys lets not be sexist/racist/homophobic" ...its not nice ? I wonder what Wu will be saying?

No thats a little unfair..ISIS is much more brutal and barbaric

No my friend sometimes we have to ignore certain behavior as the country is an ally. You have to ask " who is the greater threat to the region " And its not the Saudis and there conservative and anachronistic laws...its ISIS

Yeah you right but there were too many variables in the various events for it to be orchestrated or manipulated

It was never meant to be original, I was merely stating what I did And you seem to be ignoring the fact that I said they were not laughing out of maliciousness ...they think you are funny and used the word " legend" So please drop the victim card, its seems weird coming from you Well if people weren't provoking me by suggesting I'm trying to impress people on this forum by talking about an after party I had I would certainly be less sour