BruceVC

Just embrace apathy my friend. We're all ****ed. No we not, I have several very constructive and accurate views on the state of the world and the West Everything is fine. Yes the world does indeed face some risk but its not from the likes of ISIS. The Chinese economic slowdown potentially could trigger a recession or 2008...that is something we need to watch

Guys I tell you what I would to discuss in a reasonable way is the actual integration of Muslims into any Western country, how has it been before these refugees in your respective countries? I will comment after I see what you guys think

Dont you think it can change when they became majority? Well that is almost impossible in any Western country and then they would have to change the Constitution of there adopted country Do you seriously think somehow Muslim refugees are going to become the dominant group in any European country? I dont think there are enough of them and the EU would never allow that number of refugees in to any country

Oh just to clarify something, when I said " most Muslims would prefer Sharia law" this doesn't mean they expect Western countries to change or they will work surreptitiously to change the current law . No they realize they live in a country that obviously isn't Islamic ....but they still can have there preference

I feel you need something to back up this claim. It's like saying most christians would like to ban sex before marriage. Some certainly would, but most? Very doubtful. Why wouldn't your average Muslim want Sharia law? Its the basic law for Islam...this is not a criticism of Muslims but this is what many of them would naturally think is best. I have traveled and worked throughout the Middle East and I have engaged in many debates with Muslims and many of them think Sharia is an effective system It may just be my experience?

I live in the most multicultural part of Denmark, smack in the middle of what most would call a "ghetto" - so I have front row to this crime - and see how utterly exaggerated it is on social media and in the news. The thing is however - it's precisely the same as when I lived in a predominately poor white neighborhood, except without the media attention. Most would say it's very marxist of me, but as a result I see it much more as a monetary and socio-economic issue than a racial or cultural one. I waging that your use of dialectic materialism hinders you to asses the situation correctly. Always a friendly reminder: http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/ Meshugger you are giving the Muslim community in Western countries far too much influence Of course most Muslims would like Sharia law implemented...but that doesn't mean it will happen. In South Africa I see this all the time, South African Muslims on the various radio stations phone and indirectly suggest that No one listens to it, people are entitled to there opinion. Sharia will never become enforced in Western countries unless Muslims become the majority and change the Constitution ...and that wont happen so dont worry about that happening

Thats a funny analogy

No, but media/german goverment portrayed immigrants as refugees from war torn Syria (state with reasonable education and quite high culture which can mingle with 'west' culture without much problem) as beneficial for our society and/or at least refugees from war. Where in reality its just mass economic migration from cultures which 'west' can't mingle with as long as there will be at least some people believing in freedom of speech and women equality basically they tell you that all immigrants are Syrian doctors where in fact its much more Eritrean goatherd I imagine there will be some periods where the adjustment will create challengers. And by adjustment I mean the integration of the refugees into European culture.Lets be honest, some of them won't be able to integrate...but I suspect that will be maximum 5 % The vast majority will become productive citizens paying taxes once employed...but yes if they don't get jobs that will become an issue As we have historically seen with any mass migration, especially from countries troubled with war and/or famines irregardless of religion or culture. The massive clashes in New York for instance, between European immigrants flooding in in the 19th century. The real failure here was both that these men failed to realize they were in a different country with different morals, failed to deal with their own trauma and 'emasculation' of having to depend on others in a culture that teaches heavy male independence and deciding to take it out on their host country - and a bigger failure from authorities that utterly failed to understand that this was basically bound to happen if these men were allowed to go out unsupervised into a culture they have no understanding off, except by their exposure from mass media. Which as we know, is heavily sexually saturated... In short a complete recipe for disaster. One of the reason it didn't happen here, was because we've essentially locked up any immigrants in barracks, under heavy supervision, until they've received several courses in both our culture and language. And have been lightly cleared and background checked. The way and reason for doing that here however is a bit too draconian for my tastes (and pretty openly racist), but the rationale is not wrong. It is however still important that we do not blame an entire culture for this or take this ****ed experience as proof that we can never coexists. We can easily assimilate immigrants, as long as we understand where and what they come from. edit: and you don't really have to go back that far before you'd see similar situations in western culture. With rape gangs terrorizing London's parks and women travelling alone or in small groups. This type of criminal behavior is a byproduct of a heavily traditional, suppressive and authority dominated culture, that stigmatizes sexuality. The only exception I've seen is Japan and it's surprising that they are as good as suppressing it as they are, of course it bubbles over in popular culture for them, with rape games etc, but that's certainly manageable. You make some good points Ros, I respect your positive attitude The only advice I would give you is dont see this whole integration based on whether the refugees will commit any crime. Because I guarantee you even in Denmark there will be the odd issue of some refugee doing something illegal. And I don't want you to become jaded like many of our other friends on this forum I just hope the majority of refugees find work and can contribute to the overall society they live in....because a future of social grants isn't going to make them very popular

Okay yes I will agree with that, you guys have very low crimes rates as we discussed in the past So I can imagine this increased crime even though not high by my standard is a concern to you....is that what worries you the most? That crime will increase or are you worried about Islamic extremism from within the ranks of the refugees?

I have to be honest I'm not sure really what you guys are getting at with raising these issues of increased inappropriate behavior from the refugees? I thought we all agreed that due to the social and historical precedence that there would be a small element within the refugees that would commit this type of behavior But surly no one is suggesting this is normal conduct for Muslims from the ME ? I would agree that in certain countries like Pakistan there are real issues with how women get treated but before the war I don't think Syria was a country that was notorious for treating women badly? Well its only delusion that most of the refugees are Syrians.... Yes but still....what is the concern? Are you worried that the majority of the refugees will be criminals and rapists?

Add a few things here and there and it's the perfect guide to BruceVC's posts. Bruce is too tolerant of the opinions of others to be an SJW. SJW's are basically relatively powerless Stalinists by another name. Add a few things here and there and it's the perfect guide to BruceVC's posts. Bruce is too tolerant of the opinions of others to be an SJW. SJW's are basically relatively powerless Stalinists by another name. True, Bruce is the root beer of social justice, but don't let that fool you. That link about annoying things SJW say made me laugh Yes there are an element of SJW on the Internet who do behave like that but I don't really associate with SJ on the Internet anhymore , I found it to be opportunistic and in many cases to be lacking in integrity...its like its more about lecturing people than substantive strategies to improve the life of minorities or people just needing support So I just support certain SJ campaigns in RL now

I have to be honest I'm not sure really what you guys are getting at with raising these issues of increased inappropriate behavior from the refugees? I thought we all agreed that due to the social and historical precedence that there would be a small element within the refugees that would commit this type of behavior But surly no one is suggesting this is normal conduct for Muslims from the ME ? I would agree that in certain countries like Pakistan there are real issues with how women get treated but before the war I don't think Syria was a country that was notorious for treating women badly?

Vals please just tell me...I am dealing with RL racism in my country

Thats an interesting story, I remember you mentioned it But do you see white on black racism the same as black on white racism?

Sorry KP but I had already started on the GG article ...please can we have our debate later? Bruce if you're too scared to face the fact austerity has been a massive failure just admit it, but dragging a thread into a debate on an internet squabble between various identity politics addicted liberals who whiteknight for the innocent publishers is a cowardly escape. KP I'm not intentionally avoiding you but I'm going out for drinks now, can we continue tomorrow ? I am sorry for setting a precedence but others like Orog will debate with you

Sorry KP but I had already started on the GG article ...please can we have our debate later?

Literally every single article railing against "white, male gamers" (hint: there was none; on the other hand, there was a grand total of two saying mean things about gamers in general, without the "white, male" qualifier) specified they meant a very specific subset of gamers, whose unpleasant characteristics were unrelated to their race and gender (although, as they pointed out, due to socieconomic realities, white males are severely overrepresented in said group). There was never an "attack on white male gamers", and anybody who claims otherwise is an idiot. What. No you see you still don't understand what I meant by manipulation and this is my fault for not explaining certain details that I can address when you ask. I also had to leave out some details due to the length But by the end of this please be aware that you will see I'm right and you were part of hyperbole and yes you were fooled, so don't get angry at me Also I am going to point out a few things you may have overlooked but were relevant So you are focusing on a specific false allegation, yes you correct there weren't 10 articles. GG also started using exaggerations to justify there crusade But lets go back a bit, read this link again http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/224400/Gamers_dont_have_to_be_your_audience_Gamers_are_over.php It starts off with the following I often say I’m a video game culture writer, but lately I don’t know exactly what that means. ‘Game culture’ as we know it is kind of embarrassing -- it’s not even culture. It’s buying things, spackling over memes and in-jokes repeatedly, and it’s getting mad on the internet. Now yes, you and I didnt find it offensive but its a direct and personal attack on .....gamers and specifically a lifestyle that is normal for most people on this forum and she is mocking people who happen to enjoy the things she said are idiotic . If you dont think this article was offensive ask anyone on this forum who supported GG what they thought about this? Lets start with this

None of what you just said makes one iota of sense or is rooted in reality. At all. Okay well you are entitled to your opinion, so you think white, gamers really were a problem? Maybe summarize what I said that you dont agree with ? Sorry you also got manipulated but you werent alone

I agree on the point that austerity is a bad solution to Greece debt but OTOH they mishandled their loans more than once so that now they ****ed themselves up. A short term solution would be to engage in Communism where the state provides the populace while paying off the debt, but that would never work because it would impossible to get that many people to share the same goal. Nope, Greece has ****ed itself up and like other European countries I wish them luck in their descent into far right politics and I'll see them in WWIII. The best short-term solution would have been a fiscal policy aimed at economic growth and using the later surplus(es) to pay off the debt when the Greek economy could handle austerity. In it's current form all austerity does is depress the Greek economy and actually prevents them from paying off their debt in a sustainable manner. It's funny how the EU is creating the conditions for another fascist regime(s) despite being created to prevent that. Reality is, that they dug their own grave themselves. now they just have to pay off the debt. Take it as a form of punishment for being "edgy" enough to avoid paying taxes and milking public money. I still remember the funny view when like almost every house had a metal pipe sticking out to prove a point that it is still under construction or some such and they did not pay the full property tax (that was Crete 14 years ago). After all thieves who get caught get to prison and ruin their lives, same goes for Greeks who thought they are too smart for anyone to find out about their lies. And they are now in a situation where they can't pay off the debt. As it is they are in a situation where they will be continually bailed out by the EU while their state owned utilities are bought up by private owners. If you've got an argument on how Greece is going to pay off their debt in a depressed economy, make it instead of repeating the same thing. The social engineering is coming from your neoliberals and their obsession with austerity and worship of the market. It should come as no surprise that the recent austerity and privatization in Greece has resulted in Greek women whoring themselves out to eat and German businesses buying up recently privatized utilities. Because austerity in a depressed economy does that. So have fun you guys in the PIGS, if you're lucky enough to land a low-wage job just think of how your hard work is benefiting some kraut. But I'm sure Merkel is a closet commie and all these private enterprises are just fronts for the coming socialist vanguard. KP I don't mean to criticize you but this view you have of Greece being bullied and somehow being the victim in the whole EU austerity measures concerns me immensely because I don't understand why you can believe that, I know you and I have argued about this in the past and I was hoping someone else would engage with you because I cant seem to convince you why the EU Troika was and is correct to enforce austerity But I would like to debate this again with you if you want to? And the irony is I do want you to have a positive view of the EU which is why I want you to get the right information so I'm not doing this to prove I know more than you Bruce the last time we had this argument you just said austerity is good and we should ignore unemployment or wage stagnation. When pressed you couldn't back this up and repeated yourself without providing any sort of proof or an argument. If you can make a coherent argument I'll be convinced, but judging from your track record on this forum you'll fail to convince me and convince others I'm right. Yes I will be less critical and make less assumptions this time, I just need a break after my long GG post

Way to go, feed their victim complex s'more, Bruce... good job You know you are one of the very few people on this forum who somehow can make me feel guilty about somethings I post I know you and people like Baro also supported anti-GG but for me I truly believed the Anita and Leigh story about women being victimized in the gaming industry and objectified in games .... But the truth is SJ is not about generalizing about whole groups of people....that cannot be right. I still support Zoe Quinn, that was wrong but end of the day I realized what GG was actually about and I realized I had been manipulated You had Anita ,who like me ,came from the real world of SJ issues and for some reason decided to focus on gaming. Now when I say " real world of SJ issues " this is not meant to say we are superior but you learn how to do certain things to effectively raise SJ issues in a meaningful way that most people want to generally support. Businesses and corporations always like to support things like womens rights and to be seen to be on the good side of society So Anita took this ability and really turned it on the gaming industry, with people like Leigh and then the real abuse of Zoe they suddenly created a " crisis " that had disastrous and unexpected consequences. Many people like me immediately sided with them but websites like Polygon fundamentally decided they would champion this cause and ended up not even being able to review a game without ensuring it met " SJ standards" .....I mean WTF. Then you had all those San Francisco developers who signed there loyalty to anti-GG. Now the reality of SJ in RL is gay rights campaigners are generally nice people who will always support other SJ causes like abuse of women. Anita knew this so it would have been easy for her to get people who live in a liberal area like that to assume women really were being abused by all these " legions of white, male gamers " . Now I feel embarrassed that I was conned so quickly but my excuse is I live in a country where due to our past you really can't say " I'm a white male and I feel victimized " and expect anyone to take it seriously. So I just didn't see that outside of South Africa white, males could really feel victims of unfair discrimination...but of course why can't they? So now you had this organised movement with proper support from within and outside the gaming industry who believed this was valid campaign to protect womens rights. It was organised as if it was fighting a RL example of SJ abuse, the media and universities got behind Anita and even Hollywood and CNN were behind them.. And who was this terrible enemy that needed to be subdued ....who was this diabolical monster....drumroll....oh thats right it was white, male gamers !!!! Lets be honest if you take just the people on this forum who supported GG none of them are sexist or think less of women. They are same people they have always been, they not sales people or people who are necessarily extroverted confident public speakers and there is nothing wrong with that. But suddenly they are being told " you either with us or you dont respect women " ....there only real crime is loving playing games but that became a issue for Anita And yes certain members in GG really didn't help and in fact they reacted in exactly the way that would have worked best for Anita. They withdrew into this community that allowed them now to easily be labelled and then GG lashed out in the only way they knew how ...using the Internet. Then it got really " nasty" , you had doxxing, feminists, SJW and people being threatened and then the line was drawn and you had these irreconcilable differences and two sides who both thought they had the moral high ground but in fact had been manipulated into this " fight " When I went back and read the original Leigh letter I suddenly realized you could substitute " white, gamers" with " women, african american, jew, gay person " whatever and that type of generalization would never have been allowed yet it was for " white gamers" That is wrong and I knew I had been fooled ...and what was the outcome? GG could never have won, in fact they had lost right from the beginning because Anita knew how to get support from the real world but the reality is there is now this schism in an industry that didn't really need the actual gamers to fight it out So thats what I meant

The social engineering is coming from your neoliberals and their obsession with austerity and worship of the market. It should come as no surprise that the recent austerity and privatization in Greece has resulted in Greek women whoring themselves out to eat and German businesses buying up recently privatized utilities. Because austerity in a depressed economy does that. So have fun you guys in the PIGS, if you're lucky enough to land a low-wage job just think of how your hard work is benefiting some kraut. But I'm sure Merkel is a closet commie and all these private enterprises are just fronts for the coming socialist vanguard. If greek would not lie about their statistics, and would have less governmental sector and social spending in the first place, there would not be the greek crisis as you see it. There is no other than stupid people believing populist governments to run their countries. if you borrow money at some point you have to pay them back. Thank God there is someone on this thread who is also prepared to support me in helping KP see a different view .....

The social engineering is coming from your neoliberals and their obsession with austerity and worship of the market. It should come as no surprise that the recent austerity and privatization in Greece has resulted in Greek women whoring themselves out to eat and German businesses buying up recently privatized utilities. Because austerity in a depressed economy does that. So have fun you guys in the PIGS, if you're lucky enough to land a low-wage job just think of how your hard work is benefiting some kraut. But I'm sure Merkel is a closet commie and all these private enterprises are just fronts for the coming socialist vanguard. KP I don't mean to criticize you but this view you have of Greece being bullied and somehow being the victim in the whole EU austerity measures concerns me immensely because I don't understand why you can believe that, I know you and I have argued about this in the past and I was hoping someone else would engage with you because I cant seem to convince you why the EU Troika was and is correct to enforce austerity But I would like to debate this again with you if you want to? And the irony is I do want you to have a positive view of the EU which is why I want you to get the right information so I'm not doing this to prove I know more than you

Yes but to be honest thats not what your country decided, it joined the EU and the EU is about multiculturalism So eventually it will come to your country, this is a good thing by the way. Its nothing to be worried about well maybe thats reason why EU is failing and some states want to get out. It was never been supposed to be some social engineering project which it is becoming now. So sad, it could have been really great project many Europeans hoped for No the EU is evolving exactly the way it is suppose to, I know many of you guys feel this is not what you signed up for But funny enough in order for the EU to survive events like these Syrian refugees will occur...and this will actually make you stronger Without going into too much political and economic detail you should try to see its not possible for the worlds most successful and financially strong union of countries, the EU, that is admired by millions of people who would love to immigrate there that you won't face events like the Syrian refugees I know it probably seems like things are out of control but this is just an evolution around the structure of the EU and I can promise you culture will always sustain itself yeah like romans, man please keep your multi world in SA and dont force it on people who dont want it. I have better things to do than debate on radio about things i take as granted because some immigrant dont feel enough as at home I'm not forcing anything on you, I am just explaining the reality of what it means to belong to the EU And once again this is a good thing even if you don't see it like that now

Yes but to be honest thats not what your country decided, it joined the EU and the EU is about multiculturalism So eventually it will come to your country, this is a good thing by the way. Its nothing to be worried about well maybe thats reason why EU is failing and some states want to get out. It was never been supposed to be some social engineering project which it is becoming now. So sad, it could have been really great project many Europeans hoped for No the EU is evolving exactly the way it is suppose to, I know many of you guys feel this is not what you signed up for But funny enough in order for the EU to survive events like these Syrian refugees will occur...and this will actually make you stronger Without going into too much political and economic detail you should try to see its not possible for the worlds most successful and financially strong union of countries, the EU, that is admired by millions of people who would love to immigrate there that you won't face events like the Syrian refugees I know it probably seems like things are out of control but this is just an evolution around the structure of the EU and I can promise you culture will always sustain itself

No offense but to suggest "NK is a soverign state and we need to respect there rules " is one of the most frustrating responses a person can give The NK regime has never had a valid election and they have used there control of the army and ideological brainwashing and brutal killings of any dissidents to stay in power....they are not soverign by any respects I don't expect you to start campaigning outside there embassy or for the West to invade as I know the whole China dynamic but surly you can criticize them on a forum like this ? And its not like you don't get involved in other political debates so I do consider you informed on most global developments - "NK is a sovereign state!" - "Nu-uh, the state has complete control down to a micro-level, that's not sovereign by any means!" Bruce pls, you're drunk. Go back to bed. Actually its 3 pm in the afternoon and I'm stone cold sober And your reason for suggesting " NK is a sovereign state " is still factually incorrect I'm not sure what your definition of sovereign is, this is not a reason to say " we cannot criticize mass murder" ...its completely illogical Still not getting i see: sovereign [sov-rin, sov-er-in, suhv-] Spell Syllables Synonyms Examples Word Origin noun1.a monarch; a king, queen, or other supreme ruler. 2.a person who has supreme power or authority. 3.a group or body of persons or a state having sovereign authority. 4.a gold coin of the United Kingdom, equal to one pound sterling: wentout of circulation after 1914. Check point 1-3. Okay you and I arent on the same page on this whole thing and in order for me to explain to you what you seem to be overlooking I would probably just annoy you..so lets just leave it