jones092201

not to disagree with some good points, but Torment is all theme driven, and it created some interesting characters, while managing to avoid substantive lore drops from those characters, and to relay relevant past character interactions through the events---thinking specifically of the skull guy--- however they do have the plot device of memory loss.

agree in principal. All three retuning characters are going to share this specific event (Eothas return) with the character, and thus how they react can be less lore-drop (as this thread is honing in on) and more reaction and conversation by which the player and PC conceptualize this event. Eder, who held onto his faith in a very pure, personal, and benevolent way (as opposed to Durance), now has to realize that his god, who he quietly considered more kind than the other gods (and also, i kind of thought that too from the ending of the first game, and the WM content), now has to realize that Eothas is the same self-serving fiery creature of vengeance. Palegina- my assumption is that she will look at the atrocities of the Valian Trading Company and realize that she has given her life to something oppressive in nature Aloth- no idea. Honestly, he never struck me as that interesting. I just keep him around because mages are so versatile. hopefully, Isylmr will take over and create havok and ruin!

am admitted more likely to use ravel and kreia as examples, but no doubt we can work some ap references into the mix. am sad to say we ain't played tyranny yet, so am gonna be complete lost with any reference to obsidian's most recent rpg title. we almost always wait six months before purchasing a new title. crowdfunding projects being notable exceptions. HA! Good Fun! Well, aside from being a fun game, it exemplifies what obsidian can do with smaller companion casts; the successes and the pitfalls. i feel like it's a good indication of some of the changes going into POE 2, though i don't know who is working on POE 2 that worked on Tyranny.

"the joinable companions should be the focus o' developing the story o' a crpg. the companions can grow, and player choices can change the ways in which they grow, but the motivations and personality o' the joinables is not so dynamic as to hinder quality writing. the essential qualities o' the companions (and major npcs such as the game's Ultimate Bad Guy) is known qualities that a writer can use as a foundation for story development. I would suggest that this can be detrimental to the narrative, if implemented wrong. While I agree that joinables need to have crisis points and visible growth, I think Dragon Age Inquisition proved how fixating on companions can lead to a weaker story. Inquisition has great companions, and bioware spent a load of time building their importance to the PC, and there are many great moments where you feel connected to the companions: Dorian's meeting with his father, when all your companions get drunk together in the tavern... however, the overall story of Inquisition is weak, and it lacks any of the great moments that really made Dragon Age Origins so wonderful. I may have written this already but: In Origins, I chose whether or not to father a child infused with the power of an old god, whether to defile the ashes of the messiah character (Andraste), whether I would free the tormented soul of some dwarf trapped in a golem body, and whether or not to have sex with a desire demon inside the mind of a possessed child. in Inquisition, I think there was pool that maybe I could corrupt? point is- it seems like all the thought went into creating this vivid companions, which resulted in a fairly bland fantasy plot, that relied on a recycled villain, and an antagonistic force that was essentially just the blight by a different name. while it's clear the companions need to function differently from POE, granting them more agency along the prime narrative, and also presenting your character with contrasting and affirming view points, it can't come at the expense of the story. At least, that's what I think Also, agree that Kreia was an excellent character, often overlooked

one important caveat to this line of debate-- Tryanny introduced hyperlinks to lore based information- you could mouse over a highlighted phrase and a quick description of what occured would pop up. It was excellent in that it provided the necessary information without overwhelming you with detail. However-- way, way too often, that same information was relayed through question you would ask a companion, right after you'd looked at the hyper links, so there was still big lore drops in dialouge, which were redunant after the hyper link. my point is this: a lot of the excessive backstory development can be done away with now, if Obsidian decides to rely on the player looking at these hyperlinks. Which makes sense, because if their not looking at the hyper links, their probably not bothering much with the lore anyway. example: Durance has a big spiel about the Ashfall Citadel, and the god-bomb and all this stuff. In it, he introduces like 5 or 6 terms that are important to understanding what they hell he is talking about. So he tells the story in one paragraph: (and i paraprhase) i was at Ashfall Citadel after Cold Morn, and a group of priests and I transfered our essence into a bomb that we dropped on Eothas, and it was on a bridge and blah-blah-- our reponses to that are: What is Ashfall Citadel What is Cold Morn What is the bomb What happened after --nothing personal that gives us a better indication of the man, or allows us to ask him deeper questions to prob his character. The character development should be on his role in that expierence....but because we've had to answer the lore stuff, what should be a fairly straight forwards conversation dealing with the particular expierence of one man (and can be used to develop character, create sympahty or enmity, or just relay a personalized witnessing of a great event), we end up getting the Eora 'wikipedia' answer to questions we pretty much already know the answer to. So, my hope is that Obsidian will rely on the hyperlinks to drop lore--- a simple, quick answer, with an option to see more-- and let the actual dialogue of characters focus on expanding the companion's character and his relationship with the PC.

I don't really see him as boring. He has banter, significantly more dialogue than other companions, and he's a useful class, so having him around isn't a hassle. The problem is that he is so unlikable, and his dialogue isn't spaced out well. Every option is one big wall of text. And though PC responses tend to be more interesting than just a follow-up question, it only leads to more lecture.

my Short answer: companions need to serve to drive the narrative forward, to add depth in places (and this does include, at times, lore and backstory), and to create situations where the player is emotionally invested in the companion, so much so that they willingly sacrifice some advantage, or compromise their ideals,' in order to accommodate the companion's need or desire. This requires more agency from companions than we currently see in most games, and it also means creating hard points of contention where you have to make choices that may work against your goal, anger other characters/companions, or, as stated above, force you to to compromise your personal morality (of the character, but also, of you as a person). now, backstory and dialogue are how we invest in these characters initially, so that when they present us with their problem, we're invested enough, or not, to help or hinder them. THis is especially important if the are statistically, or class-wise, useless to our party. We generally want sympathy for, or identification with, a character. That's why Minsc, Varric, and Imoen, Dorian, and especially Eder and Alistair, are popular characters- they seem like people you'd like to drink a beer with, and they are firmly rooted in neutral good territory. (i.e they don't mind killing a million bad guys, but they'll comment when you kill an innocent, or when they see it done. Won't stop it though....) The example of Durance used above-- his backstory is well-written, his dialogue is on point. The character is significantly more complex than most cRPG companions, but he lacks sympathy. He's just not a likeable character, and for that, most people aren't invested in him. "I swear by the whore that is Magran..."--there is more personality in that line than any other character in POE, but Durance is just not the kind of character that endears the player. However, he is reactive to almost all key points in main plot and subquests, he has banter with all characters. I'll grant that he-- like all-- lack in choice-based responses-- and that is a point where Obsidian needs to work (and where a smaller companion cast will be helpful). So, my two cents is this: the long exposition building into a lackluster companion quest is something that players are starting to recognize and, while it's not a deal breaker, is becoming annoying. Comments and reactions on choice are important going forward, more so than a monologue on some point of lore or history that feels like high school lecture. More agency within the context of the story.....things that work against the character even, to show they have a real personality that exist independentof how you want to shape them. I would remember this, also: Maybe of the most well received characters in the genre are scene over multiple games, so you can see their growth and watch them change.

Cat o nine tails for a whip, taken from the cruel pirate mistress who lashes the galley slaves when they don't row fast enough. Burn lash... Also- though it's a bit of a stretch period-wise, the volley gun was a multi-barrel, early 19th century innovation meant to be used by the guy in the rigging to fire down at boarding parties.... usually just exploded in the hand though...could be an interesting blunderbuss unique There were also some interesting axes in use by the ottomans in the 16th century My main weapon desire, however is basket hilts on more swords, like spelltongue has. Or just search google images I'd also love to see plate armor updated to reflect the shift from medieval to more modern.

Wow. I'm amazed we're going back to level one. if im being honest, that's fine with me, especially with the possibility to sub-kits and mutliclass. But i kind of feel like i did when i finished watching episode VII--- it's good, but are we really just pushing the reset button?

it'd be great to have an overland (or oversea, in this case) map ala Storms of Zehir. A lot of opertunities for skill use in that, and exploration. another game that show an interesting way to do this is Pirates: Gold, if anyone remembers. actually, that's exactly what i'd like the map and naval combat before boarding to look like. I'd imagine the devs at least talked about doing something like that, even if didnt want to in the end, or had a reason why it wouldn't work.

7. I'd love to see mechanics skill level affect reload speed. In the first game, guns lost out big after durgan steel. I'm sure they'll fix that. But a reduction of reload at higher levels of mechanics makes sense logically.

for along way away stretch goal, i'd love to see a pillars of eternity I remaster, allowing whatever changes are made in Deadfire to work in POE. (i.e subclasses, multi-classing). Like the old baldurs gate trilogy mod and later, Enhanced Edition did.

spell system was good for tyranny, but not really what they're tyring to do here, i think. i loved the lore of it,-- it's more fleshed out and the ability to tweak spells a little bit was pretty interesting. some small ability in that regard could be interesting-- like, twaking the shape of the spell or empowering it (moves it up one spell level, perhaps) but i think on the whole, i'd like to see much the same as POE. However, the ability for high level mages to craft one or two spells-- and only that-- would be interesting. Because it would allow you to tailor a spell to the composition of your party-

I still like the 'brace of pistols' idea from way back in poe beta- Instead of a second weapon set you get three pistols, and you can fire them with out reload. The it goes back to a normal pistol reload animation. This would allow flanking characters to be active while mobs engage frontliners, then switch to melee and leap into the fray. I think that would allow some utility to rogues, who tend to waste a few seconds in the initial rush because they're too squishy. Then the arquebus is the heavy ranged option, and the blunderbuss meant for alpha strike. Dual pistols could work in the same fashion. But it's good to see obsidian saw the awesomeness of dual pistols. Adds to the atomsphere and looks awesome, as the Orlan in the art so clearly demonstrates

One with the arquebus and bird pet, other with two pistols? Anyone want to guess?

I think part of this debate should consider that some people aren't as interested in creating optimized builds, and more interested in having a base set of abilities that conform to the idea of the character they want to play as. Both styles are fine, but multiclassing efficiently takes a good bit of study (made easier by community threads and YouTube) Kits and prestige classes allow your character to function in a way the devs have tested and know worked. Plus, being an assassin instead of a rogue, or a duelist instead of a fighter, helps player immersion i think. I usually play on instinct round one, stumble through the game, and then build a significantly stronger character round two. Both play throughs are great fun.

I'd agree, only that makes encounters really difficult to manage. I have a hard enough time as it is. I think that, in order to manage 10-12 characters, per encounter skills would need to be simplified. Don't think that's something we want, right? But maybe for a few battle scenarios, peppered throughout the game?

With the exception of mass effect ii, what game deleveled existing characters? People keep pointing this out, but I can't remember another example of this. Sure they exist of course. I do agree that the first game over leveled us too quickly. I think you do have to account for the fact that , back in 2015 when the game was released, isometric rpgs had gone the way of the dodo birds and Gerry curls, so obsidian needed to show new fans what high level content looked like. That being said- hopefully the genre will still be active when the watcher storyline wraps up, and the next set of Eora games can spend more time in the lower level content, dealing with more mundane threats, so we don't have to have the tools to battle gods and reveal earth-shattering revelations at the end of game one

I always feel like that sixth spot allows you to bring along that character you like but doesn't really help your party composition that much. It's like when I'm playing a rogue and I don't really need the devil of caroc, but I want to feel like she was a part of my adventure. Like how many of us feel about our younger siblings who just want to hang out with our cool friends...who probably weren't that cool anyway.

ah, cool. I liked all the pre-release stuff you did last game. Hope you'll do some of that again.

what happend to that guy?

after thinking about it a little more, there is a small chance that something in the vein of level reduction at the start of the game might happen. This is because they are maybe going to include multi-classing, and they'll need a way to allow PC and the returning characters to take that option. Within the context of the narrative, it makes sense that they could get hurt, drop some levels, ---gained back very quickly through ealy xp-- that give you the chance to modify existing characters leveling composition. the other way, of course, would be to just let us tweak character at impot. Stil think it's unlikely they will take our levels and our stuff.

1. one touch command for party to consume food/drink consumables. 2. A macro that allows me to cast a pre-selected series of spells, so I can know my priest and mage and druid are getting that done and concentrate on the front line. (espeically with spell mastery, this got very annoying.) 3. Better late game firearm utility (sure this one will be fixed) 4. better high end light to medium armors (all the really cool stuff was plate.) 5. brace of pistols/dual wielding pistols (maybe confirmed by orlan on ship picture?) 6. more specific content for stealthily characters. those are my first thoughts. Game looks great!

feel the same way. cautiously hopeful they've come up with something good, but I would have preferred kits, ala BG II, for my off-tank rogue or my spellsword... in the end, i'm very glad Obsidian is thinking this way, however.

you're not going back to level one. I agree that the first game rushed you to high level spells and abilities (and weapons and the like), but they're not going to force you back to level one. this story is passed that stage, players want to see that new new.