Albion72

Meh, I've never really bothered with builds, I go with the flow and have fun doing it.

In this instance, Nihilus is the knife, not the nuke button. Kreia can press the right buttons to achieve what she wants, but if Nihilus turned his power upon whatever planet she's on

I agree with this post completely. Kreia was not your cheap two-bit liar who said her name was Jenna instead of Kreia. She deceived you by telling you she was Kreia instead of Darth Traya, but it was all part of her plan. After you find out who she really is and confront her, there really is no reason for her to lie to you. Especially when you defeat her in combat, and get to ask her all those questions before she dies. There is no reason for lies during that moment. Sure she could lie about Revan, but what good would that do? Its either: a. She told the truth about Revan, in which case you don't know where he is or what he is doing. b. She lied, in which you don't know where he is, or what he is doing. c. She could have never have spoken of him, in which you would STILL not know where he was, or what he was doing.

I was wondering what time period of Star Wars history would you like to see a KOTOR-like game made about? Personally, I was thinking pre-old Republic. Possibly centered around the Unification Wars or what not. Maybe a little afterwards. Great Hyperspace war would be interesting as well. I think it would be AWESOME to see the Star Wars galaxy during its different time periods. Its earlier history would be very cool to see in my opinion.

I like this idea. From a purely logical standpoint the progression of technology will eventually out perform force users until they are completely out matched by your run of the mill soldier or some kind of mass produced droid. which would most likely lead to a galaxy that isn't ruled through ideology and will instead be simply over resources and what not. Instead of muslims vs jews forever type thing it's America embargoing Cuba type stuff. Then again Star Wars is completely paradoxical in technology. They can invent a hyper drive that can conquer the stars and the many pew pewing of lazers but they can't program a decent droid to save their life. I like this idea, but I don't think that force users will ever be outmatched. Even if technology advances, the Jedi (or some other force society) will invent a new and improved lightsaber, that is able to contend with the newer technology. (Much like the sabers used in KOTOR-Movie eras, the older ones were like, plugged into this little power pack thing on your waste, and were not nearly as useful. When you factor in all the many capabilities... 1. Mind control and domination 2. Lightning 3. Near perfect reflexes with a weapon that cuts through anything like cheese. 4. Nihilus muttered words and scorched a planet clean of life. And the plethora of other possibilities.

I don't pretend to assume to know how BioWare will handle staffing, but logical business practices would say to not overstaff for an expectation of a hit game, but to reel back other projects and use the staff you have in place. That is why I thought BioWare would not have the ability to spearhead KotOR3 for a few years. I don't know what game you played, but in the version I played four Jedi and two Sith (three if you count Kreia) were killed. Not exactly significant. Also depending on how you play you can end up with four or more Jedi that don't die, plus yourself and the end of the game does not truly determine where the exile goes. In fact Kreia even say she had hoped you (the exile) would follow Revan's path. lets look at that idea. KotOR2 occurs about 5 years after KotOR. If a KotOR3 occurred 5 years after KotOR2 how much will that effect an MMO that occurs 290 years later. Do we really think it matters if rebuild starts 295 years or 290 years before the MMO? I see no reason a KotOR3 could not be built off the idea of something happening 5 years later. You can't tell me that all Sith and Jedi were destroyed anyway. Even Kreia says that when one Jedi or Sith is killed another rises to replace it. From what I have seen of LA from both the movies and books conflicts are not really that much of a concern. Yes they don't want major problems, but many books were written prior to the re-release of A New Hope that talked about Biggs and how he died and LA changed that. Also, as others have noted in these forums, characters designs changed from book to book (even Luke Skywalker). And again I would say you can avoid that conflict by placing KotOR3 near the same time as KotOR2. 1. Bioware will probably not be in charge of a possible K3 Project. 2. I think he means the events occuring in KOTOR 1-2. The Mandalorian War and Jedi Civil War were responsible for millions if not billions of deaths, which is a significant impact on Star Wars galactic history. 3. This is very true. And besides, if Kreia is right, there is a whole empire on the fringes of unknown space, itching to conquer. 4. True true. Also, isn't KOTOR 3 supposed to be near KOTOR 2? I mean, wouldn't it have to cover what Revan and (possibly) the Exile do in unknown space?

Interesting post. There are a lot of things that could have happened. Now, I am not saying your above idea is BAD, but if Revan waged a war on the Republic before the True Sith did, what stopped the True Sith from stomping BOTH sides when they were at their weakest points towards the end of the war? There is a lot at work here, and simply saying the Sith from unknown regions are in TOR does not ex out the fact that there can still be a very in depth and interesting story.

I am not sure that it could really be summarised in a way that would make sense The EU is the "Expanded Universe" of Star Wars, which means all the stuff that you can find in novels, books and comics. Some of the publications are good, some are bad. What is being discussed is the ideas and storylines introduced which were not part of the movies. The prophecy was that Vader would bring "balance" to the force. Balance does not mean completely destroyed. It would mean the Jedi and Sith, or more accurately to the movies, the light and dark sides should be equal to each other (forever locked in battle with the light trying to "maintain the balance", really meaning maintain the control, and the the dark trying to take control) anytime one is greater than the other it is out of balance. Also, My vote is the suncrusher. I hate the suncrusher. I believe Lucas meant that by balance everything would be at peace. When one uses the lightside, their are in tune with themselves, at peace and calm... Balanced. The Dark Side draws on chaotic influences, it is turmoil within the Force. This is the imbalance. If the Dark Side was to be destroyed, there would be no more chaotic energies, no more turmoil in the force, and thus balance and peace would be achieved.

1. Your dialogue dictates whether or not Revan likes Bastila. You can choose to hate her but canon SW says Revan and Bastila fell in love. So this is out of the question. 2. Wasn't Revan the one who found out about the True Sith? Kreia just knows that Revan found out. Revan wouldn't leave known space for any little deal, especially if he was a hero.

I think the original poster was trying to say something like: If you named your character Jeff in the beginning of the game, and you became a Sith Lord as a prestige class, Darth would be added to the front. So you'd be Darth Jeff. This is not masking your name, this is simply making you more sith like. All the other Sith Lords had Darth in front of their name. Darth Sion, Darth Nihilus, Darth Traya... Why not you?

I remember reading plotlines for Episodes 7-9 once. Luke found a planet so intuned with the Dark Side it was believed that it was the source of all dark energies. They blew the planet up and hte Dark Side was gone. Lucas trashed these plots though because it was so *stupid*.

Kreia said it was Revan's intentions to go and battle the True Sith in the uknown regions, and that he had to leave all he loved behind to do it.

Now, first of all, this passage effectively ends the discussion of who the "true" Sith are. The fanboy wet-dream of some uber-sith race so powerful and smart it has remained hidden to the jedi order throughout history can now be safely dispelled as just that - a delusion. Other parts of the FAQ establishes this Sith Empire as the remnants of the Sith Empire of Naga Sadow, so we now know that Kreia's "true" Sith were indeed the descendants of the Sith Empire destroyed during the Great Hyperspace War. But this establishes something else. Something about Revan. The hardcore Revan fanboys out there should be furious now, because the above basically establishes Revan as a failure - he did not return from the unknown regions, and he did not succeed in stopping the true Sith, because here they are making the very attack on the Republic that he fought so hard to prevent, all his sacrifices for nothing. TSL reconciled the very different endings of the first KotOR game by establishing a threat that both good and evil Revan would have to do something about - good Revan to save the Republic and evil Revan because it threatened his dream of conquering the Republic and establishing his own empire. The exile ends up in a similar position with Kreia telling the exile that Revan will need warriors both jedi and sith to stand with him in his fight in "the Great War that comes". However, any possibility of a resolution for Revan and exile is now gone, because here is the "Great War", only three hundred years later when Revan, exile, Bastila, Atton, etc. have all now long since died. Fans of those characters can now join the ranks of those who are fans of Nomi Sunrider, Vima Sunrider, Jaden Korr, and other Star Wars characters now abandonned to the netherworlds of the forgotten and discarded. Because a resolution to the struggles of those characters would have demanded a great, ultimate fight against the threat established in TSL, and the new game has now claimed that threat for its own three centuries later, where the characters we knew can no longer have significance. Star Wars: The Old Republic (SWtOR) has simply hijacked the overall plot established during TSL to emcompass both KotOR games and tie them together - a KotOR3 with a resolution for Revan and exile, where they make a grand stand against the (true) is thus impossible now. Oh sure, diehard fans of evil Revan could argue that Revan could be the "mysterious Emperor" of the Sith Empire. But really, wouldn't that really be a huge disappointment plotwise? It would certainly make the canon ending of KotOR1 and the player's choice in the game totally irrelevant, if that were the case. Granted, hearing the final fate of Revan or Exile is obviously not impossible. A story could be made, where Revan and exile "save" the Republic by starting a civil war within the Sith Empire that postpones their planned invasion of the Republic for centuries. Given the state the Republic is in by the end of TSL - largely due to Revan - an invasion by the Sith at that point could have been devastating. In that sense the Republic is "saved" because the attack did not occur until it had a chance to recover enough to at least survive and repel the invasion. But that plot for Revan and exile would make for a grim story of tragic heroes fighting a losing battle for the sake of future generations that they cannot be part of themselves, a story of heroes who sacrifice themselves to a hopeless battle that they can never win, and where the only form of victory is delaying the inevitable for as long as possible in the vain hope that things might change in the Republic in the future and allow its survival once the Sith assault does come. It would be the Star Wars equivalent of the fundamental Call of Cthulhu RPG plots, where the protagonists must constantly try to prevent the return of the evil Old Ones, terrible evil gods that can never be defeated, and who will inevitably awaken again one day and destroy humanity as a matter of course. Not that I'd mind such a plot per se, but it's not one that lends itself well to a game, and probably not one that will be told in Star Wars, where good must always prevail over evil. It could be told within the confines of the Knights of the Old Republic comic book, if the events of those books ever get to a point in the very, very distant future, where Zayne Carrick and his friends live through the events beyond TSL. The perspectives for that are not encouraging, however, as the book is currently at issue 34 - almost three years of publication - and yet the plot began in 3964 BBY and is now in 3963 BBY, just one year of plot having taken place during three years of storytelling, and in the plot it is still seven years before KotOR1 and twelve years before TSL... Heck, Revan could even return to the Republic, so long as it is kept secret and swept under the carpet. But all in all the conclusion is clear - the big finale TSL set the stage for is now impossible. KotOR1 was Episode IV: A New Hope, and TSL was Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back. It had an open ending because it was building towards a sequel. But there will now be no corresponding Episode VI: Return of the Jedi. No final confrontation between Revan and the true Sith, no chance for the exile to "go there with him, and do battle at the end of all things", no "great war that comes". And obviously no closure. Revan, exile and their companions are now lost characters of an unfinished plot left hanging with their fates doomed to wonder the endless wastes of plot limbo. Nice going, Lucasarts - your "return to the franchise in a grand way" has killed KotOR by stealing its plot and murdering its conclusion so it could be used in a new game rather than committing the apparent crime of thinking of an original plot of its own. Also, I shall never again believe anything ever spoken by Lucasarts (see my sig for the reason) - I'll believe Kreia's word over that of Lucasarts from now on! 1. "Return to the franchise in a grand way" - Explain how this means sequel, or the LAST part of the franchise that is ever going to be made? The Clone Wars returned to the franchise in a (Well not in my opinion) grand way, games are made in that time period, Star Wars Galaxies was made in the time period of Episode IV, all these returned to the franchise in a grand way. Yet there is always more room to build on plots (take the force unleashed as an example). Returning the franchise does not mean finishing the franchise. Now, if LucasArts would have said, "We are going to finish this franchise in a grand way." I would be P/Oed 2. "Revan and the exile never returned from unknown space, but the Sith Empire did" - Why did they wait 300 years bud? Wouldn't it be the ideal time to attack the republic after both the MANDALORIAN and Jedi Civil Wars? Its like Germany versus Poland in World War II. They would've ROLLED the Republic, the only possible competent defenders would've been the Exile and companions and MAYBE Revan and companions. The "True Sith" would've won, end of story. The Galaxy would be in a period of Sith rule and control. Revan stopped them, but like all things bad and evil, they returned, took'em 300 years though, which tells me if they couldn't rebuild fast enough to attack a fledgling republic, Revan (possibly exile) did something very important. Also, it is possible that the Sith attacking this Republic aren't the True Sith spoke of in KOTOR 2. Afterall, if only Kreia knew about the True Sith, how could the Rest of the galaxy put a name to their attackers and know that they were "The True Sith waiting in the dark corners of the galaxy plotting to take over the galaxy?" Those Sith could've been wiped out and remnants of their teachings could have been found and then the Sith order could have been rebuilt in the uknown regions of space. If I remember correctly, there are a lot of civilizations out in the unknown regions that the Republic still hasn't discovered yet. Also, I think the possibility of these, "Uber sith" you speak of was flawed straight from the beginning. No one said they were going to be more powerful than anything ever known. Kreia simply stated that they were rebuilding their empire on the borders of known-unknown space. Afterall, how would you beat an EMPIRE of nothing but "Uber sith"? They were simply darkside users left alone, watching the galaxy unfold like a chess game (or Dajarik in star wars terms). "This makes Revan a failure, because he did not stop the True Sith." That means EVERYONE is a failure. In the entire galaxy. No one every DESTROYS the Sith utterly to where they don't come back. I guess the Exile and Revan are both failures because Palpatine came along to be in existence at some point in time. The Republic is a failure because they couldn't stop Palpatine. Luke is a failure because he couldn't destroy the sith before all the NEW EU stuff. Everyone must be a failure... Geez. This move by LA is the exact same thing we ALWAYS see in Star Wars. Sith are beaten, a few hundred years later they want the galaxy again, they get their butts whooped, but come back a few hundred years later. Also, the FAQ does not tell you how GREAT this war is going to be. It simply says there is a war. When the game is actually released and all of the details revealed then we can speculate more on this issue. If you told a person that hadn't played the KOTOR games that the Republic once fought the Mandalorians, they would have NO IDEA how bad the war actually was. That is our knowledge of this new conflict. And like I said, it not impossible for the Exile/Revan to make a grand stand against the True Sith. (First of all, it was never said that that was their plan, it was stated that Revan did LEAVE to fight the True Sith, but not what his intentions/plans were). Like I said, 300 years passed. The Republic was not crushed instantly after the end of the Jedi Civil War. Revan (and maybe Exile) did beat the True Sith. The MMO is picking up where the Sith have rebuilt (Like they always do) and are trying to take over (like they always try). About the Episodes, yes KOTOR is Episode IV: A new Hope (this even makes sense), KOTOR 2 is Episode V: The Empire Strikes back (Also makes sense) and yes, there is no Episode VI, but that is because it is not made. Think about it "Return of the Jedi" would make A LOT of sense as a third installment to the KOTOR series. Afterall int his MMO, we do not even know why the Jedi are rebuilt, or who did it and how long it took. Unlike the movies, the MMO gives the KOTOR plot 300 years for things to happen. In the crappy new EU stuff, luke beats Palpatine, rebuilds the Jedi and the Galaxy is thrown into CHAOS AGAIN! Thats not even 100 years. Luke Skywalkers lifetime was filled with war and chaos and turmoil. And, in my opinion, the fact that Revan did NOT return is even better. If Revan returned, we would know what happened. He would've either failed or succeeded. Had he succeeded, like you said, he probably would've kept everything a secret. Had he failed though, he probably would've warned hte Republic about what was out there so the Republic could do everything they could to prepare for a war, even if it did come 300 years later. Revan did not return however. This leaves a plethora of possibilities that could have happened (considering the immense time difference between KOTOR 2 and the MMO). Also, you said NO Great War came, but wouldn't that mean Revan and the Exile did something great out there? We don't know what they did, so it is very possible there was a GREAT WAR in the unknown regions. It just wasn't fought between True Sith and Republic. It was fought between True Sith and something else, and revan and hte exile factored into all of it to destroy the threat and save the Republic from an imminent invasion that would've crushed it. SWtOR is simply a new star wars plot, in which the Sith are doing what they always do, being jerks and trying to conquer everything.

I believe that one team (a team is the group within the company that makes the game) is always working on WoW's current release. Blizzard however usually has 2 teams on WoW, one on the Game to fix bugs and release Content (the Zul'Aman and Shattered Sun offensive patch for example) while another one works full time on the expansion. to blindly state that the storyline of K2 didn't have a significant impact on the Jedi, Sith, or Republic in any way is... blind. K2 completely wiped out every single Jedi and Sith in the known realms. Also all the tools used to teach jedi were lost in either the preceding wars or in the looting that occured after the Order fell. Luke's Order only started picking up momentum to match that of the old Order RIGHT before the Vong invasion. And the Order that Windu and Yoda were a part of in no way matched the might of the Order pre-sith war. If I read what bioware wants correctly, they want armies to be clashing on planets and the armies will have a fairly good number of Jedi with them. Rather than just one jedi leading the entire force, it'd be more like Geonosis where an army was leading each detachment on the planet. And in a galaxy wide civil war thats alot of Jedi that need to be trained, equipped and taught how to fight. Doubtful, like I said in my previous paragraph Bioware wants the Jedi order to be a POWERFUL force to be reckoned with. Not numbering in the hundreds but numbering upwards of 5000. You can't train that many jedi in 40 years, it's practically impossible, and if you keep decimating the galaxy with wars and straining their recourses, the Republic would eventually be overthrown because they keep drawing recourses away from the planets and funneling them into rebuilding the constantly being destroyed navy. LA probably wouldn't introduce a Kotor3 until the MMO cash cow has died, been beaten, squeezed and milked inside out. If they Did introduce a K3 during the MMO or prior to the MMO they'd have to have the team working on K3 either work closely with or be a part of Biowares MMO team. Simply because everything in the game would have to easily dovetail with the MMO to prevent conflicts of what happened. If there was a conflict the MMO would ultimatly be seen as 'cannon' because it draws more money. Thats the way MMOs usually START these days. I've been there for a lot of launches, it usually goes like this. 1. People are hyped and buy the game, the first day there are thousands of people. 2. Day 2, the numbers dwindle by nearly half, people are disappointed because the game is missing things promised and it is not polished enough. 3. Rinse and repeat step 2 until there is little population in the game. 300 Years is a lot of time to rebuild a very powerful jedi order. You are talking 5-6 lifetimes. (maybe 3 lifetimes if the lifespan is like 100 years for a human considering the technological advances). Regardless, the galaxy is a populous place. And besides Cliandin said that they COULD have attacked the republic 5-6 times, not that they probably did. 300 years of peace means that the armies that are going to be clashing are going to be huge. Think about World War II, Europe was nearly DECIMATED and DESTROYED entirely, today the area is rebuilt and each individual country has a decent military force. That is 60 years.

K3 won't be developed at least not until the MMO is completly played out. And heres why Yes the TOR will be taking place 300 years after the Kotor games, but on a galactic scale 300 years is probably just enough time to rebuild after 2 devestating wars in which the Jedi Order was wiped out, the jedi repository of knowledge was wiped out when a dark jedi detonated a cluster of stars near by. Mandalorian and Sith forces attacked corescant, an entire species was wiped off the face of Yavin four. Now the Jedi Order in particular is the problem because 10 generations is enough that you could have a population that is capable of contributing in a sizable way in a war effort, before that? not so much. Add to that the fact that games practically HAVE to have a conflict that is on the galactic scale or has galactic implications, and you get a republic that couldn't hold off a swarm of mosquitos much less an army of Sith. those 10 generations practically have to be used to return the galaxy to "normalcy" otherwise you're forcing the Sith to either be over powered when invading and are stopped only by a deus ex machina that has to have a "only works once" tag attached to it, otherwise you couldn't set up for the conflict in the MMO. Point Taken. However; my point that Bioware would be busy with the MMO is that MMOs take constant updating, and will require a large staff to get started and if it is popular, which it likely will be (cause really every fan of MMOs that is a Star Wars fan has been dying a decent Star Wars MMO), will require a large staff devoted to support and upgrade the game. WoW releases updates every few days to every few weeks. I can only imagine how many support issues they deal with daily. Also, as I believe you posted before (could have been someone else) the exile will not likely play a part in the new game or even have an impact that is felt in it. If anything somewhere along the line if you dig long enough they may make mention of an "exile" but not likely. It seems most people would agree that KotOR2 was better with a better storyline than the original (up till they got too rushed). While KotOR2 was a "save the galaxy" type of game it did not impact the Sith, Jedi, or Republic in a detrimental way. It would be easy enough to create a few Sith Lords venturing out that require a Jedi to destroy. This Jedi could easily be form the newly established Jedi Academy. It would be easy for them to set it 10 years past KotOR2 and say the Jedi and Republic are rebuilding, but a "new threat" looms in the distance that must be defeated to protect the republic. Yes, I know we get to be evil if we like, but the story is still directed to protect the republic. After all, lets be real here. This is the Star Wars Galaxy and in the Star Wars Galaxy Luke Skywalker, a half-trained Jedi, creates an academy and rebuilds the Jedi in 1-2 generations, and that after all other Jedi are dead and no one knows they can use the force so he has to find them too. Heck, they already have an academy built and ready to go on Telos. That means they could rebuild and almost destroy the Galaxy 5 or 6 more times before the MMO. Never the less, LA is unlikely to allow production on KotOR3 before the MMO releases, and even then it will be sometime down the line from there (guessing a couple years) before they would allow it. But it would be a smart way for LA to introduce us KotOR Fans to the new animation and give us a taste of new classes they might release. Excellent post. Your reasons stated will probably be why Bioware will not be in charge of KOTOR 3 if said KOTOR 3 is to be put into production. Its either up to Obsidian or some other decent company (can't think of who else would be good at KOTOR games). Of course KOTOR 3 probably won't be a big issue during these times, because the MMO has the spotlight, but I'm confident after much waiting we will get it.

I cannot comprehend this.

I agree, there are still a plethora of possibilities. People think because Old Republic is int he title that it has everything and anything to do with the KOTOR games,w hen in reality, quite some time has passed.

This is debunked by the fact that Blizzard can afford to be producing Starcraft 2 at the same time as the final development/launch of Wrath of the Lich King.

Heres the thing about MMO's, because of the nature of their content and how they are set up, you could not have a single player game active at the same time or after in terms of timeline. This is because if you set it during the MMO then you have to have an event or somthing to show the events of the game. If you don't then the two games will appear to be out of sync and the Single player game will be declared "non-cannon" in favor of what people pay monthly for. If you set the game further down the road from the MMO then the MMO will have to have a definite end point for their content. They would have to build themselves to that event or the game has to be so far down the road that it has tenuous connections to the MMO and in this case almost nothing to do with the previous games. In a nutshell: If you run a Singleplayer game that's either cocurrent or post your mmo wile the mmo is still running then you are limiting what you can do in the mmo, and the Devs will never want to do that. This is why Warcraft 4 will only happen if WoW somehow dies. This is a relevant post, and I agree. However, the MMO takes place 300 years after Revan leaves known Space. Still you can't exactly have a galaxy threatening war on the scale of the Sith and Jedi Civil wars without decimating the populations of the Jedi again. Just to get the Jedi population large enough that they can have Jedi be a character class I think they need those 300 years to be relatively peaceful. Thats the beauty of it. Revan left to stop the Republic from getting crushed, because if the Republic was invaded by ANOTHER force before having the chance to rebuild it would've had no chance whatsoever. those 300 years of peace had something to do with Revan in my opinion. And SWG had Jedi as a class, and there were thousands of Jedi, although the time period the Jedi were pretty much wiped out (with a very very select few who survived).

Heres the thing about MMO's, because of the nature of their content and how they are set up, you could not have a single player game active at the same time or after in terms of timeline. This is because if you set it during the MMO then you have to have an event or somthing to show the events of the game. If you don't then the two games will appear to be out of sync and the Single player game will be declared "non-cannon" in favor of what people pay monthly for. If you set the game further down the road from the MMO then the MMO will have to have a definite end point for their content. They would have to build themselves to that event or the game has to be so far down the road that it has tenuous connections to the MMO and in this case almost nothing to do with the previous games. In a nutshell: If you run a Singleplayer game that's either cocurrent or post your mmo wile the mmo is still running then you are limiting what you can do in the mmo, and the Devs will never want to do that. This is why Warcraft 4 will only happen if WoW somehow dies. This is a relevant post, and I agree. However, the MMO takes place 300 years after Revan leaves known Space.

This is unfortunately true. This is fortunately not true.

Of course Senators (as in any republic) are elected by the people for which they represent. Therefore if the Senators were corrupt, after their term was served, the people that they represented had the opportunity to elect new Senators. Palpatine spread lies throughout the Republic's influential people (such as Amidala) that the Senators were corrupt so as to gain the trust of those Influential people. It was all part of his plan to reform the Republic into his empire. He promised everyone a system free of corruption, the problem is is that the corruption was non-existent, trivial, or minimal. He made himself out to be a hero, when he was the villian.

Meh, everyone is taking this a bit far in depth. Fact: MMOs are hot for market, they are making one, because its the "fad" for most computer gamers. Fact: This does not limit their ability to make singleplayer games, because singleplayer games are also still very popular, especially for the console systems. Fact: Bioware is not hte only company who can make KOTOR III. Fact: Just because LA is not allowing a KOTOR III to be made right this second does not mean they think its a crappy idea and/or shouldn't be made. Perhaps they want TSLRP to be finished first.. who knows. These companies all have their own plans and agendas, and frankly, they are doing quite well as far as business right now, so they are not desperate for cash. Its not like their employees are boiling leather shoes for food (this was actually done during the great depression). UNSURE: The KOTOR MMO will spoil the plot of a possible KOTOR III. I say unsure because there is no way we can tell. This is also unlikely considering the time difference, and the only fact we know is that these Sith came out of the unknown regions where Revan left. So assumptions can be made, but nothing is proven yet.

Bleh, forget forum mechanics. I shall manually quote you! Calax said, "The sith that appeared during the great hyperspace war were the original sith aka the TRUE Sith. They had been driven out of known space by the Jedi in centuries past (if I remember my Tales of the Jedi correctly) and ended up landing on a set of planets that were able to support life and indeed had their own inhabitants. Generations of cross breeding and political power struggles later you get Naga Shadows VERY swift rise to power and his subsequent attack on the Republic after being found by a pair of force sensatives. Unfortunatly the areas where this sith empire WAS has been found by the time of the Sith War with Exar Kun's involvement. Korribon and Ziost were two of the major planets in the Sith Empire at that time." Reply: Yes. Calax said, "From what I understand in Lore the Sith of the great Hyperspace war, the Sith War, the Jedi Civil war, and the Clone Wars, were all VERY different from one another. it's not that Sith remain between the ages but rather that their artifacts remain for new "scholars" to arrive and "discover" them and promptly become the new crop of Sith Lords. Their take on what they have to do as ordered by their artifacts or Ghost Masters might be completly different from the others, but the basic tennants are always the same because the Sith are ALWAYS power hungry and backstabbing. It's how they learned to survive." Reply: Yes. Calax said, "1708 didn't have much happening. but in america everyone goes over at least somthing that happened in 1608 400 years ago. and that was when Jamestown had John Smith elected as Mayor, and in October a supply ship arrived to find a grand total of 38 people. We don't discuss what happened based on how long ago it happened we discuss it based upon momentus happenings. I think that the Jedi Civil war and related actions would constitute a chapter in a history book. My guess is that in the Republic at least the fact that Revan and the Exile dissapeared into the unknown regions is a simple historical footnote and nothing more will be said. IF they had anything happen with the Exile or Revan they'd have to define the character which would ruin it for fans because then Revan HAS to be X Y and Z for the story to work." Reply: Think of it in relation to more modern times. World War II was an EPIC war was it not? Some would call it good versus evil. Freedom versus Tyranny and oppression. How much do people on the street talk about world war II? It is still mostly kept to history text books, etc. Occasionally, as mentioned above, historians will discuss the aspects of it in detail. Even 9/11 isn't talked about that much anymore. Whenever it is brought up it is usually sympathized, and then not talked about a short period afterward. Thats why you don't hear people in the Star Wars movies talking about any of the past conflicts, it doesn't interest them because it was before they were even born. (Yoda is an exception, because he's old. But he doesn't talk about stuff in the movies, I'm sure he uses it in the training of Jedi however, although we don't see how he trains them). Calax said, "Don't say that WoW hasn't changed because of the books and related material. Usually the books go over somthing that happened that had NOTHING to do with what was happening in WoW. And even then characters from the books were incorperated into the game world. Also the WoW Comic brought the humans back their king which is a pretty big thing considering it kills an entire quest line. Anyway, The Sith should have an emperor, it is an Empire after all. The easiest way to pick the emperor is the Dark Lord of the Sith. the Sith's leader has always been the reigning Dark Lord. I personally think that it would be stupid to say that the Sith entered a Civil war because of Revan mettling in their affairs. It would take him years to be accepted by the sith if he were following the Light path (as most promotions are based around the superiors death by the promoted). And I sincerely doubt that Revan will come back as the Sith emperor given he'd have to live 300 years which IMHO is quite stupid and it would again define revan. If you Define revan the amounts of Nerd Rage that will pour out from fans of Revan will probably kill one of the bioware writers." Reply: "Usually the books go over something that happened that had nothing to do with what was happening in WoW" - Exactly. Luke Skywalker, Count Dooku, Jango Feet, Boba Fett, are incorporated in Battle Front, but there presence doesn't shatter any plot lines of hte movies. And yes, I wasn't trying the Sith shouldn't have an emperor, itd be hard for me to imagine a Sith democracy lol. Ok what civil war are you talking about? The one that is taking place in KOTOR I? Because in SWTOR, its not a civil war, its a side against a side, Republic vs. Sith. Regardless, if you are talking about the latter, what makes you think the Sith only started a war because I said it was possible that Revan caused chaos and splinter factions to evolve within the Sith ranks 300 years earlier? They are Sith afterall, and if the Sith have an enemy, they attack that enemy. Revan being the actual emperor is just a theory. It could be a plethora of things. Revan could've had a nihilus type presence form much like the exile did, and that is who is leading these Sith. We don't know yet. However, it is possible for Force Sensitives to prolong their lives large amounts of time. I don't believe it is stupid at all. You might as well say its stupid that Yoda is 900 years old. Also, who's to say the Sith followed Revan to the light? We have no way of knowing until KOTOR III is made. But I think its impossible for brainwashed Sith (who haven't had their minds erased like Revan), to willingly give up their power. Calax said, "LucasArts has Axed their independent thought brigade of developers and probably wouldn't try to bring it back. They aren't even the primary developers on this project, Bioware is. Bioware makes the story and everything and lucasarts just rubberstamps it if it doesn't blatently contradict something that has already been published. From everything I've been reading Bioware decided that Kotor 2 was not worth mentioning. They've dropped it probably because it'd be hard to have a Jedi Order that's worth anything after it had been wiped out and rebuilt only 300 years before. Especially considering that a Sith Empire would have the advantage of Men and Material in a war with the Order and the Republic given that the republic had to recover from 2 Galactic wars within 50 years of each other. They might have been able to build back up but they had no real reason to given that their borders weren't being threatened by anything and large corporations generally hired their own mercs. I never played Matrix online or LOTR online but I did play Star Wars and it did tamper with the plot in the early stages. Originally there was a running plot line that went one way or the other based upon the actions of the players in the game. This died out pretty quickly because it was one sided the Alliances way the entire time. Meanwhile World of Warcraft has been advancing it's story pretty steadly for what it is. From the perspective of the game all the pre60 content was 2 years ago, the 60 to 70 content was one year ago (this includes the deaths of Kael'thas Vasj and Illidan) and he 80 content is current (with the return of the king of Stormwind)" Reply: LucasArts axed their developers? Yes Bioware is the primary developer, but think of Bioware's reputation. You think they are dumb enough to ruin a plot? All their games are mostly plot, occasional fights, then more amazing plot. They may think KOTOR II is not worth mentioning, but that still doesn't give them the right to ruin its plot. If LucasArts wants to axe KOTOR II's plot (sadface), then they would've done it already, or canceled the launch of hte game. I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean about a Jedi Order thats worth anything. Might as well say the Jedi Order in the movies shouldn't have existed then, because it had been wiped out a couple of times in the past. The Jedi Order rebuilt, like it always does, after it is nearly completely eradicated. Yes, in Star Wars Galaxies, you got to choose which path you followed, it advanced a plotline for YOUR CHARACTER, not for Luke Skywalker, or Darth Vader. You don't end up killing the Emperor and then the plot of hte movies is ruined.

Seeing as how the mysterious sith emperor is said to have extended his life, that is possible. If true, it would, however, also be incredibly lame and would certainly invalidate any and all choices you made in KotOR1. The FAQ says, "At the conclusion of the Jedi Civil War in KOTOR, Revan disappeared into unknown space in search of a great threat to the Republic, an expanding Sith Empire led by a mysterious Emperor who planned vengeance for his ancient Jedi enemies. Revan never returned from unknown space, but the Sith Empire did, kicking off a war with the Republic that lasted for decades." This leaves very little or actually no doubt at all as to who Kreia's mysterious "true Sith" are. Even if you want to attribute the term to some other sith, it is clear from the above that the sith attacking the Republic in SWtOR are the Sith Revan left to fight. That's the thing that annoys me so much about this. If it had been left ambiguous, that would have been one thing - sith come and go, and who's to say who those sith are who are now attacking the Republic. But this leaves no doubt - it's the Sith Revan left to stop, and he failed to do so. He may have slowed them down, but he didn't stop them, and they eventually did attack. It's always been my suspicion that Revan left to start a civil war within the true Sith ranks in order to cripple their efforts toward a military build-up prior to an invasion of the Republic. But it is clear now that is was only a delaying action. Could a plot be based on that? Sure, it could, but it would be a pretty bleak story, where the only victory Revan and possible the exile could achieve would be to postpone the inevitable. Ultimately their efforts are doomed to failure, so who would be excited about playing that? Well, I might, but it's not a Star Warsy-type of story, more like somethnig in Lovecraft's Cthulhu mythos or similar. Perhaps, but then neither is KotOR3. Unfortunately it does. Not because of the choice of doing an MMO, but because of the plot details they chose to base it on. Had Revan's fate and the origin of the sith empire in the plot been left ambiguous or undefined, it would have been a different matter, but the details LA and Bioware have chosen to give makes it very clear - this MMO is the closest thing to KotOR3 that we're going to get, so if we want to play KotOR3, then we have to play this game. Period. That's exactly what the point of giving out those details is. The plot itself doesn't need them. I know it's difficult to accept, and if you choose to live in denial, then that's your choice, but the way I see it there is no doubt at all - KotOR is dead, because LA and Bioware have chosen to ritually sacrifice it as a marketing tactic toward making fans of the franchise understand that this is the next chapter. Just look at the press release, if you have any doubt - http://www.swtor.com/news/article/press-release-001 "Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic is the most critically acclaimed Star Wars game in LucasArts history and a preeminent example of our company