Jayd

With enough Guile and accuracy Gambit is an infinite deletion machine. The problem with SC Rogues isn't that they don't get high level goodies but that their high level goodies are so good that they encourage you to use nothing else, making them potentially get stale quickly.

Not just lowers fortitude, but the special effect of enfeebled in prolonging negative effects makes disintegrate and other cipher powers especially effective.

Check this out from this great guide: "Note that because you gain the devoted's +2 PEN, +25% crit damage to any weapon you're proficient with and not just the one weapon you choose at character creation, this has the side effect of making the devoted's bare fists also more effective (since everyone is proficient with their fists). This is particularly relevant for a monk multiclass or for a devoted who picks up Monastic Unarmed Training." That's why I suggested picking up Monastic Unarmed Training. Perfect answer to pierce-immunes for a Devoted

Well there aren't many unique rapiers so I would think you would build with those in mind. The soulbound one from SSS (Seeker's Fang) is limited to Cipher, Rogue, Wizard, and Ranger, and it's definitely best on a Cipher. Since you were considering Cipher anyway maybe go with that to make the most out of it in late-game? The most interesting effect from the other ones is immunity to flanking and +20% action speed when surrounded from Squid's Grasp. Thinking about how to make the most of that, I'd want to pick a Fighter, because Fighters can pretty effortlessly stand in the middle of a bunch of enemies without dying (especially if they can't be flanked). I think it would be fun to start most fights by diving directly into the middle of enemies with Charge and start stabbing away, taking advantage of Mob Stance. You could probably get some really fast attack speed with Mob Stance + Squid's Grasp (always dual-wield - one-handed is a trap unless you're building heavily around crits or using pistol modal). As a Devoted with Hammering Thoughts you'll be able to penetrate anything and will probably overpen a lot. You can pick Monastic training to smash pierce-immune skeletons. I've never played a Cipher MC, but maybe Ascendent would be best here because you're sitting on Focus for a while with it (powering up Seeker's Fang when you get it)? Could make for a satisfying gameplay loop to start fights by going stab-crazy on a mob and then spam some good spells when you ascend. I just saw that Soul Whip does more damage when ascended, so you don't even need to use powers to benefit from the subclass if you just feel like perforating goons all day. This would also make the absolute most of Seeker's Fang (helped out by Disciplined Strikes and a touch of extra Devoted Crit damage). So yeah - if I were to do this I would go Devoted/Ascendent, slap him/her at the front of the party, and Leeroy Jenkins into every mob I come across. You could get higher damage with monk or rogue, probably, but this seems fun to play and is doing a lot with the theme (rather than just being a standard weapon dps build using rapiers instead of Scordeos or whatever).

I can say that Shattered Pillar is a bad idea, because limiting wounds to 5 means limiting your INT bonus from wounds (which is the sexiest part of monk-caster multi) to 5 instead of 10 (i.e. virtually no bonus at all since you can do the same with an inspiration and they don't stack). Helwalker is extremely good because of the might, and Wizards have lots of survivability options. Nothing wrong with going no subclass Wizard if you don't like the Blood Mage downsides. I feel the lowered defenses with BM could be frustrating since you may well rely on high defenses to offset the Helwalker squishiness.

I taught myself how to mod today just so that I could finally scratch this itch: the Boar's Charge ability from Survivor's Tusks ought to be per-encounter rather than per-rest. It's not strong enough to be per-rest as endgame gear and the other SSS Soulbound items have comparable per-encounter active abilities. I've published it on Nexus for anyone interested.

Glad to see the discussion has moved towards more varied ways to regain resources. Only trouble with adding new talents is that they'll become "must-picks", which constrains building. You can argue that, if Brilliant is nerfed, this is the tradeoff to not needing a Cipher in every comp if you want to try hard. But I do think it's most elegant if you can add resource regen to existing talents - especially ones that people were likely to choose anyway - so that it feels like an added dynamic and not like yet another constraint on building your characters.

Apologies; I hadn't updated. Thanks!

Found a bug: the new bonus on Great Soul is clearing on rest, at least for Aloth. He gains extra I&II casts when I pick it but then loses that bonus after a rest - I need to respec to get it again. Sorry if this is known already.

Eh, was a while ago so can't remember exactly what I was using. The only especially notable chant I'd highlight is the ever-popular Ancient Memory because, with sky-high Might, this character actually provides substantial passive healing. Sky-high INT also means lengthy linger and chant radius. Other than that, no special recommendations. If you use the Community Patch mod, Dragon Thrashed could be good too (it's never worth it in vanilla, I don't think).

I'm not much of a Chanter expert so take what I say with a grain of salt, but I find Skald better for the aggressive playstyle you describe than Bellower. I tried a Helwalker/Bellower before switching to Helwalker/Skald, and the Skald was just more dynamic to play and more effective in most situations. The ability to cast offensive spells more often was just more effective in difficult fights (where the Bellower spells can't just blow everything up immediately) and felt just as good in easy fights. Plus, regaining phrases on melee crits is fun. At PLXII, you can pick Instruments of Pain and farm crits at long distance (monks do a lot with melee crits - synergy!). Makes you feel like a real mystical warrior.

Sorry if this has been discussed already, but what about providing resources only on the initital application of Brilliant and not per tick through its duration? Like 2-3 pool points and/or 2-3 random spells? That way you can't get more resources by extending the effect (still get INT and power level). You have to re-apply Brilliant every time you want to get new resources (this might mean that any existing Brilliant buff would need to expire?).

I take pretty high insight all the time and there's definintely fluff but I feel it helps decently often. Off the top of my head, like that lady who turned herself into a construct, and reaching into that weird machine in FS and uh...the fella with the boars...? Why do I take insight? I think it started because I used to pick the philosopher background for flavour and that gives two insight (even though the actual instances of 'insight' in the game have absolutely nothing to do with philosophical insight- it's more like emotional intelligence, which philosophers are actually extremely bad at). Think I should maybe change things up a bit going forward. It's so habitual now that when I see a failed insight check I actually feel like I've failed myself, though.

I didn't even know you could do the fungus part peacefully. I take that miserable fight every time. It checks my patience.

I take your point, but this only applies if you use shifting for melee combat (or don't use it at all except to heal). The benefit of it for some Druids is the free AR or other benefits while casting. I use it that way often for Tekehu when he's getting focused. Or consider a tank build (maybe Liberator or Warden) that starts combat with Bear/Stag/Cat form (for AR/Defenses/Speed buff) while casting. Shifter couldn't do that and Animist would actually be the best choice (Ancient is squishy, Lifegiver gets penalty after shift, Fury can't heal).

Right, I forgot to mention this. Thanks for making Wolf and Stag worth picking (especially Stag - the coolest looking) I'll take it. Most of the things I tend to be drawn to in games like this are bad . I think it's fine since Spiritshift isn't actually that intrinsically strong, especially since you lose access to weapon and armour perks when transformed. Having more serious downsides to the subclass would hurt a lot. Glad to hear Frenzy works. Looking forward to combo-ing it with Entropy as you suggest. Thanks for the mod!

Thought it would be appropriate to say here that, after looking through Elric Galad's Balance Polishing Mod, I think his Druid changes are excellent and could make a single class Shifter a real option. The simple (and, I think, obviously and desperately needed) change to Wildstrike Frenzy to make it on-Crit turns those from really bad (on-Kill is win-more; spell kills don't even work) to some of the strongest martial passives in the game - what you would expect for having to surrender the potential of an entire martial subclass! Even though Shifters can't cast in animal form, the introduced +PL from Wildstrike can help their persistent spells having lost passive bonuses from weapons and armour. I think I will try a SC Shifter with that mod sometime in the near future. @Elric Galad, you mentioned in this thread that you have a bug logged for Wildstrike Frenzy? Is it a bad one? I could wait if you're actively working on it.

From your post and replies it sounds like you will like the Contemplative more. Yeah the symbol spells are nuts but the gameplay really is cast symbol -> diddle around with other spells as appropriate as stuff dies. If you want to experience that you have Xoti and Vatnir to hang out with (multiple priests in a party can be cool because they can specialise in healing/buffs/damage). The Contemplative will be a more unique and interesting gameplay experience.

I noticed that you gave Wicked Briars a 1/5 saying it's just a Tanglefoot with "a little" pierce damage. That's a bit strange to me since it does more damage than Plague of Insects. Easy access to Tenacious helps with penetration issues. Briars and Venombloom are great spells for boss killing and otherwise stacking damage against enemies that you can't just blow up immediately, especially for a character with massive INT, because that increases the total damage of these spells. Maybe you don't want it all the time but I think it deserves more than a 1, especially since you complain that PL4 doesn't have good damage options. I also think Venombloom deserves more than a 2 - it's not that hard to get into a good position to cast it, especially on a nuke-focused party (as opposed to one that likes to mix in with the enemies). How good it is against bosses alone should give it at least a 3 imo.

Wow, you've put a lot of effort into this - definintely will be a good resource for anyone interested in Fury! This may be somewhat common knowledge but I just wanted to emphasize that Ascetic is an incredible class generally. Put a Helwalker with any Druid subclass and you'll get something greater than the sum of the parts. Personally, I'm somewhat obsessed with Shifters and that makes for an awesome, dynamic experience: cast your aoe spells, shift, Flagellant's Path into a squishy and it will explode; if there are other threats around you can switch to Iron Wheel to heavily mitigate your squishiness since you'll get basically post-mythic heavy armour without penalty (more on Bear). The Shifter free spells also work great with Helwalker. Damn, this is making me want to play that build again... Anyway, I think a powerful Ascetic tech that I haven't used yet and you don't mention is using Slayer's Claw (should still work in basic form without being binded, right?) to get Energized from Tenacious blows and then use pulsing spells. Every crit you get with a spell pulse will interrupt (including something like Tanglefoot, which now becomes a massive CC tool). I'm doing something similar right now with a Berserker/Shifter and it's very impressive. My feeling is that an Ancient/Helwalker with Claw in one weapon set and Spine of Thicket Green in the other who doesn't shift at all would be the strongest Ascetic, but you can't really go wrong with the class (once you pick Helwalker- as the synergy is in how absurdly Druids benefit from both Might and Int). The Fury looks great but it's a real bummer to lose access to healing spells since the Ascetic is arguably the best healer in the game. A Moonwell taking up half the screen pulsing for massive heals is amazing. A party with a Lifegiver/Helwalker would be immortal without some serious burst damage coming in, I think.

Keep in mind that using mods will disable achievements though. My bad, looks like I was misinformed.

Since you love priests and chanters so much do you usually run Vatnir as a celebrant? I was thinking of doing so this playthrough and wondering whether you have any secret tech to share. About Vatnir or just celebrants in general. Think I'll give Vatty Blightheart (thematic!) and go for debuffing+murder. Sorry if this is a bit tangential to the topic but thought it might be useful.

This is why it's great that you reach max level fairly early in this game though. When I'm playing a character that wants a SSS item I certainly don't wait until I'm done with 99% of the game. It's more around 70-80% so there's still lots to do with the item. That's why I disagree with the opinion that leveling is too fast in the game. Peaking early means that you get to target endgame gear to use in the rest of the endgame. That said, if your build really relies on one of these items to be good then that's a bummer. Best case scenario is if you have endgame gear that substantially improves your build so you have something to look forward to, as you said.

Sir, this is a Shifter thread, please carry that mess elsewhere But seriously, according to thelee's guide, Furies don't get Garden of Life either. A Shifter can slap on The Moon's Light to offset the self-damage before running around, but that's another finicky action economy penalty for just being a Berserker. Yeah, I was using Blooded like this but it's not like it's a very noticeable indicator, especially when you have a bunch of effects going. You have to be actively looking for it periodically if you think you might be taking damage (which may not occur to you sometimes). It's a good tip but more finickiness for picking Berserker.

Been thinking about and testing my previous thought that the Tempest is better than the Beastmaster and have re-evaluated. I think that the Tempest is convincingly better than the Beastmaster in easy or average/run-of-the-mill fights. But the Beastmaster comes out ahead when it comes to taking out especially tough enemies: because of its accuracy and (this shouldn't be understated) Concussive Tranquilizer. CT utterly trivialises fights with enemies who use buffs for survivability, including many bosses but also enemies such as fighters spamming Unbending/Vigorous Defense who the Tempest could struggle to deal damage to. The Tempest is who you want when there are a bunch of trash mobs to smash, but the Beastmaster is who you need when there’s a problem. I’m also struck by just how squishy Berserkers are. Partly because you want your Druid to have high Might, so the self damage is pretty bad, but also because you can’t see their health while they are off smashing. More than once in not-too-much playing, my Tempest has died while the other characters were pretty healthy because I didn’t even know he needed attention. At this point I don’t think I’d declare one better than the other overall. Both are good builds which adopt the respective strengths of Barbarians and Rangers – Barbarians are good when they can get a lot of killing blows and Rangers are good at taking down especially tough enemies. You can argue that this makes Barbarians worse on balance because on-kill effects are essentially win-more while the Ranger's strengths have the opposite dynamic (they help you when you're struggling, not when you're already winning). But sometimes what you need is someone who can cut through a crowd with prejudice.