Jayd

I played PoE and Deadfire back to back, both for the first time, and didn't notice any significant change in dialogue style. Reading this thread makes me feel like I must be playing a different game to some of you. I mean - it didn't sell because there's too much philosophy? What? The only person I know confirmed to have tried Pillars and then shortly abandoned it was because it was too hard. If there is anything making this game (or at least the first one - I've never tried Deadfire's lower difficulties) inaccessible it's because it was made for and by powergamers. People who just want to pick a character to RP and click things to death are intimidated by how punishing it is. Not only because there was too much philosophy. My list contained three more reasons. Also have in mind that we, people on this forum, are a self selected bunch. We are here because we like the game. So our opinions are biased. There are roughly one million people (correct me on the numbers if I'm wrong) who played PoE 1 and are not in hurry to buy PoE 2. There is something that at least some of them didn't like about the first game and they are not there to say what it was. I wasn't trying to pick on you in particular, it was just an example of a complaint I find purely speculative and probably impossible to justify (like much of what is said in this thread). It's precisely because of your last point that I reported on someone I know personally who tried the game and didn't like it. It's nothing as far as data goes but it's better than guessing.

I played PoE and Deadfire back to back, both for the first time, and didn't notice any significant change in dialogue style. Reading this thread makes me feel like I must be playing a different game to some of you. I mean - it didn't sell because there's too much philosophy? What? The only person I know confirmed to have tried Pillars and then shortly abandoned it was because it was too hard. If there is anything making this game (or at least the first one - I've never tried Deadfire's lower difficulties) inaccessible it's because it was made for and by powergamers. People who just want to pick a character to RP and click things to death are intimidated by how punishing it is.

There is a big marketing/word of mouth issue, as I'm definitely PoE's target audience but I only knew about the games last year after purposefully looking for something similar to play after replaying both Neverwinter Nights games. That said, I don't know what they could have done to reach me without a AAA marketing investment.

Sounds super solid to me. Has all of your bread and butter covered beautifully with bonus accuracy and penetration, rangers' ability to easily apply flanked with their companion, plus the defensive buffs from stalker complimenting fighter's natural bulk. It can make good use of all weapon styles, too. What pet are you using?

Regarding Shifter, since it's been suggested: the most frustrating thing about for me is that your shifts cannot be restored by any means (not by Brilliant, etc.) so it can become dead in the water if you do a martial multiclass (I played Beastmaster) and rely on your forms entirely for power. Arcane dampener also forces you out of your form so your time is even more limited against wizards. You will also have a pretty limited action loop since you're relying only on one half of a multiclass for active abilities. You may be fine with this (the class wasn't weak), but it annoyed me. If I were to pick Shifter again I would probably go single class or multiclass with another caster and play it as a spellcaster who also has unusually significant and reliable melee abilities. I think that would remain more relevant over long fights and have a more varied gameplay loop. Druids are great if you decide to try one in some form.

I just want to say that traps are my least favourite thing about this game. I get the same punishment for clicking too fast/failing to pass a super high attribute check while walking around as I get for hitting 0 HP in battle? It feels awful to get thru a 30 minute challenging fight with no injuries just to walk around a corner too fast and get the same result. I don't know what the solution would be (does anyone build around using traps?) but I don't find it does anything but detract from the experience. That's my whining in an inappropriate sub-forum for the day.

Much obliged. That seems really powerful with long duration dot or CC effects, and since they often target fortitude, enfeebled makes them more accurate as well. This makes FF better than I previously realized. I'll be sticking with this guy for a while, I think. My Bellower will have to wait (or get the tavern henchman treatment).

Greatly appreciate the comments. Said "what the hell" and started a new game with a FF. I have to test some more but I've seen so far that both (a) and (b) seem to work (or, if anything, only(a) - I'm 100% sure I extended hobbling strike while it was already ticking but haven't really tested anything else). I want to push this guy's deflection up as far as it will go so the choice between Balanced Shield (defl+reflex per wound) and Outward Spikes (free dmg) is a toughie. Anyone have more insight on these upgrades? I wonder if crits on the bash can proc heartbeat drumming/swift strikes, but even then it still might not be worth it if I want to push the tanky thing? I feel like the choice is probably clear and I'm just silly.

How exactly does the "extend hostile effects" part of Enfeebled work? Let's say you pair a FF with a Druid casting Plague of Insects. There are a couple ways to queue this: a) Cast PoI -> apply Enfeebled b) Apply Enfeebled -> cast PoI Does Enfeebled extend the duration in both cases or only the second? More importantly, when Enfeebled expires does the extra time vanish too - in effect making the extension useless unless Enfeebled stays applied for a longer duration than the hostile effect it's extending? Does Mortification of the Soul work with Forbidden Fist? If you apply Weakened with Enervating Blows, does it override Enfeebled? Does Parting Sorrow work when you break engagement with an enemy or only when they break engagement with you? What about when they are forced away with a push effect? Is the "strike" mentioned in Tuotilo's Palm's Outward Spikes upgrade a Primary, Off hand, or Full attack? Or does it just apply damage some other way? How does The Long Pain work when using Tuotilo's Palm in your off hand? Sorry if the answers to these questions are available and I just failed to find them.

Do they benefit from both two weapon and weapon and shield style simultaneously?

Seems weird for an attribute inspiration to be that specific. Maybe a bug report is in order?

That sounds interesting, thanks for putting thought into it. Truth is, though, I'm primarily interested in playing a SC Bellower to upset mobs with big Eld Narys and dragons. The energized thing was just something I was thinking about to give the character options and a shtick while building phrases. i'm doing a SC bellower next, also picking up that energized invocation. i'm planning on mostly a) using it as a fun accent to a single-weapon-style sasha's singing weapon (but mostly for the +2 PEN) b) investing heavily in arcana because arcana scales super well as a skill and just tossing out scrolls of binding web to repeatedly interrupt enemies sounds fun (also gives something for a SC chanter to do in between invocations instead of just autoattacking) Nice, sounds like we were thinking along similar lines. I also planned to go the scrolls route. It'll probably be a while before I actually start this character (if I actually do) so I may ping you to find out how it plays, with your permission.

That sounds interesting, thanks for putting thought into it. Truth is, though, I'm primarily interested in playing a SC Bellower to upset mobs with big Eld Narys and dragons. The energized thing was just something I was thinking about to give the character options and a shtick while building phrases.

I was thinking of cool stuff a single class Chanter might be able to do. They're the only class with access to the Energized inspiration, the special benefit of which is interrupts on all crits. I was thinking it might be a good idea to run one-handed style and try to lock down enemies with interrupts as a melee combat niche. A max Int Bellower casting empowered Far From Defeated at the beginning of combat with Sasha's Singing Scimitar should have the buff last a very long time and gain back 6 phrases instantly. The alternate weapon can be a warhammer (pierce/crush to compliment scimitar and each unique warhammer has an on-crit effect). Can also use Magerna's Chain to damage enemy recovery even further. As a cherry on top, Thick Grew Their Tongues can invalidate concentration. Not too sure how generally powerful this would actually be, though. I know spamming interrupts is great against casters, but is it useful against melee opponents? Would you need a ton of dexterity to have frequent enough attacks to make this useful? Anybody have experience using this buff?

I'm seconding this. Also choose Boar as your spiritshift form because it applies a raw DoT with every auto attack. Furthermore, Garden of Life is a Plant keyword spell and is, in my experience, the most powerful healing spell there is (though it is contingent on dead bodies being around - turn of gibs in the options menu). I can't explain why it's so good because I don't really understand the tooltip description, but basically you cast that on a bunch of corpses and it'll pour heals for what feels like hours. A great tangential utility to have for your build. Make sure you go heavy on Intellect and Might. Single class is great for the extra power levels and getting your spells quicker, but all the important Druid DoT spells are under PL 7 so you can multiclass too (PL8 and 9 have very good non-DoT spells). Disclaimer: I've never played turn based so I don't know how it interacts with any of this.

This kinda stuff in single player games is pointless. Only in PvP (or at least some kind of competitive PvE) environments is there any degree of objectivity in these kinds of lists.

Thanks for the helpful comments so far. Wanted to mention Sasha's Singing Scimitar, which seems pretty mandatory for a Bellower. I'm thinking I would use the Encore upgrade so I can pop two heavy invocations back to back in a tough fight. Refreshing Finale seems good and the more popular choice (from what I've seen) but I have a little policy saying choose the best build for any given encounter, not one that is only good across several (without rest). Encore seems really good for gaining control of a fight early - good enough to need to rest here and there. Resting does restore all empower points at once right? I've never really paid attention. Thoughts?

I've been thinking a lot about playing with a single class Bellower focused on making the most out of invocations. There are popular damage dealing ones like Eld Nary and the flying weapons, and there are straightforwardly good ones like Hel-Hyraf and Not Felled (armor is a big deal). But I want to know if there are others that are easily overlooked but actually very strong. (Or ones that seem like they should be really good but are bad.) For example, are the ones that give three inspirations worth using or is the opportunity cost too high? The dank spore has an infinite use charm spell and can inflict permanent sicken. Seems pretty good on paper but I don't hear anyone talk about it. And I feel like I don't quite get Boil Their Flesh. Looks like it should only be used on Near Death enemies. Is the payoff good enough for such a limiting condition? Thanks for any secret chanter knowledge you can share.

You can see some of them, like attributes, by scrolling down on the ranger's character page. But I don't think you see their weapon and armor stats there. You can also mouse over them in combat for their armor and defenses.

But you just applied realism to something made up. Magical chants and functional grimoires are not real, but it is not hard to figure out what limitations they would have in reality if they were. Most of what we call realism in storytelling is simply consistency - because we can imagine all sorts of things to be real, but we cannot imagine logical contradictions to be. We take the world that is explained to us in fantasy and imagine that it is real. Inconsistencies actually prevent us from doing so and are therefore a legitimate problem to the integrity of an experience that revolves around pretending we are acting in another world. Going back to what I posted earlier, it's ok to violate this consistency (i.e. realism) when that helps the experience (e.g. nonsensical inventory spaces, chanting and reciting spells at the same time). But violating it can also interfere with people's ability play in the imaginary world earnestly.

It's important to have a sober view on the realism vs. mechanics thing in gaming. I think people are too quick to accept an absolute ideology (departures from realism are always a failure/realism does not matter whatsoever) where the truth is both more complex and more straightforward: realism is good when it enhances the experience and bad where it hinders it. Sometimes it can do both at once and people will disagree on how pleasing the balance is. This is the case with Might. Doing away with a good stat system because you don't have a realistic name for the omni-damage/healing stat would hinder the experience. The flavour of the omni-damage/healing stat compromising a popular role-playing archetype also hinders the experience. This is a genuine tension, and you can't really be "wrong" about how you feel about it. You can, however, be unreasonable.

Nothing about the watershaper's temple? When I went there at the recommended level the Naga Marauders were 4+ levels higher than my team, and three bog slimes constantly stunlocked my team and cast plague of insects over and over. That was an absurd difficulty spike to me - way out of line with the other quests I was doing. I had to go back after leveling up significantly.

Yes - if you want to use it most efficiently. But if you are not solo anybody in your party can profit from it - it's not necessary that the ranger executes the attack. yeah At that point though.... it's not a combo =( unless i designed a sort of double team set up like a Bleakwalker/ Devoted Crusader who's job it was to use my rangers take down + mark accuracy And if your ranger does have fast attack speed that gives you a very short window in which to use another party member's attack without having to tell your ranger to stop attacking. A party-based combo would probably work well with a slow-attacking ranger.

I'm playing a stalker/shifter on POTD. Doing SSS currently, upscaled, at level 19. My pet does not die a lot. And when it is in danger, it is much easier to save than other members of the party because Play Dead exists (plus it doesn't suffer from injuries after getting rezed). And I don't think I'm very good at the game right now. So I don't know why people keep insisting that pets are a liability on POTD. It has always helped more than it has hurt. I use antelope btw. As for Takedown Combo, yeah, it's best used with big spike damage attacks. I have fast attacks so I chose Brutal instead for the penetration help.

I thought long and hard about a Shifter Tempest (eventually decided on Beastmaster, which I've been enjoying). I love the idea of the Barbarian's mobility and spike damage. But I was worried that low deflection would make it get focused down too easily to do anything interesting on POTD, and my experience with Serafen early on kind of made me feel that was right. Since you're not playing on POTD I guess that might still be the case but I'm glad you're at least having good results on Veteran - that's a good sign.