SaruNi

Rogues don't actually lose any abilities by going ranged. Other than that, I agree. Except for riposte, which was severely underpowered. But in general ranged rogue was actually more powerful (or at least easier to play) than melee rogue. If anything, I'd expect a riposte-oriented melee rogue subclass. But that's a bit predictable.... On second thought, a subclass that not only has an improved melee riposte, but can also use riposte with ranged weapons, could be interesting... a "Swashbuckler" who uses guns and/or swords and makes multiple "riposte" attacks while evading shots/blows.

The beast with two... no, twenty, thousand tentacles....

So what will be the official (default) name for a Corpse Eater - Cipher? (One for Corpse Eater - Vanilla Cipher, another for Corpse Eater - Soul Blade, another for Corpse Eater - Ascendant...).

As blotter mentioned, Necromancer is different from Animancer. Animancer could be Cipher, Wizard, or Rogue. But all the Necromancy-like abilities in PoE 1 are Wizard spells or Chanter invocations. (Taking control of someone else's body when they're still alive isn't Necromancy---Necro = death / the dead / corpses.) Could even have three animancy-related subclasses: - Rogue for the mechanical / engineering aspect - Wizard for necromancy (Concelhaut, necromancer and animancer) - Cipher (Galvino)

Yeah. If Evoker is meant in the non-D&D sense (of evoking spirits/demons/gods), I'd prefer a Necromancer. If it's meant in the extremely idiosyncratic D&D sense... the relative weakness of elemental / DD wizard spells would make a nuking subclass understandable. Some people will want their old fireball / nuke mages. I like Illusionists, but if the two obvious subclasses are Nuker (Evoker) and Necromancer, I'd like at least one to be something relatively unique and creative.

Is there any other RPG archetype for "Evoker" aside from (A)D&D? In AD&D: "Evocation: Spells that manipulate energy or create something from nothing. An evocation specialist is called an evoker." AD&D evocation spells: Magic Missile, Fireball, Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning, Sunbeam... Wall of Fire, Wall of Ice... Ice Storm, Elemental Storm, Earthquake, Meteor Swarm... Darkness, Chaos Orb.... Eldritch Blade However, Evocation is distinct from Conjuration. So "elemental" forces like heat / cold / electricity / light / kinetic force count as "Evocation" but non-elemental objects/entities like Wall of Thorns are "Conjuration".... In contrast, according to Wikipedia, "Evocation is the act of calling upon or summoning a spirit, demon, god or other supernatural agent, in the Western mystery tradition." We had a few wizard summoning spells in PoE 1 + White March. Though the concept of "calling upon a spirit/demon/god/supernatural agent" seems a little more interesting than a generic wizard summoner, since we've already got Chanter summoner.... "Ascendant" is evocative of becoming closer to being a spiritual or mystical being, becoming less dependent on the physical realm and more powerful in-yourself. So perhaps they get reduced weapon damage / reduced soul whip but increased max Focus and maybe non-weapon-based Focus regeneration.

For my part, I doubt that the subclass will involve much by way of literal corpse eating since it could require unique animations (which none of the other subclasses particularly seem to entail at this point) What about Ghost Heart?

I'd love it if there were an animation of it (maybe optional gore and (neo-puritanical) "decency" toggle?). As Boeroer alluded to, there was in fact a corpse consuming mechanic in PoE 1. Remember the Chanter invocation? I love the name. It's probably not a radical departure from the archetype---Barbarians already had bloodlust, the DA:I Reaver subclass had something similar iirc---but it's interesting enough and could amplify a potentially fun mechanic (kill as many as possible, as fast as possible) that was most likely underused in PoE 1, and that might otherwise be OP if not isolated to a subclass. The "cannibalistic mutiny" aspect makes me think it could be related to Frenzy---maybe if Corpse-Eaters use Frenzy but you don't consume corpses fast enough they become PoE 1 style confused and choose random targets, or attack allies?....

Yes, that's why it might be better to limit it to a few subclasses (hopefully with interesting variations), so they can be balanced accordingly.

Oh, you got my hopes up---this is just a new name for the Summoner chanter subclass disclosed before ("Beckoner"... meh). Wonder what the other chanter subclasses will be....

Never knew that she could in the first one. Given that its been stated that Pallegina's order (five sun's) is a unique subclass only useable by her I am fairly confident that it is subclass specific. Which means we should see similar things with (at very least) the other paladin orders and potentially with others. There's a couple of good game guides online to poke around on, here's the one on Paladins. It lists Pallegina's special Abilities including that one. http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Paladin Frermàs mes Canc Suolias (Pallegina only) Vielo Vidòrio - When the paladin uses Flames of Devotion, nearby allies gain increased Attack Speed. Wrath of Five Suns - Whenever the paladin uses Sworn Enemy, five orbs of flame leap from his or her hand and fly toward the target. Wasn't Wrath of Five Suns added (in patch 3) because people thought Pallegina was underpowered? With NPC's they can balance special abilities against weak attributes... whereas the subclasses are balanced by having drawbacks relative to the base class. So if a subclass had an ability like that it would probably be balanced by a major drawback.

Given Deadfire's theme, one of the rogue subclasses will almost certainly be pirate-related. (The obvious thing would be some sort of "Swashbuckler"---maybe with a buffed riposte mechanic. But it would be nice to have a gun-wielding pirate too (maybe gun riposte wouldn't be too OP if it required reloading or having a loaded weapon equipped when attacked?). But there are other possibilities for a pirate-ey rogue subclass (even traps... buried treasure and all that).) With Assassin and pirate-somethingorother probably taken, I'd like the third rogue subclass to be something that hasn't been done before.

They've announced an Assassin subclass. Vanilla ranged rogues were already very good in PoE 1---they got the major advantages of rogue without having to deal with the major disadvantage (fragility). The only thing they (usually) gave up was backstab (though ranged backstab was possible at close range), which wasn't very good... and that specialization has already been well-implemented. (On the other hand, melee Cipher was not as good as ranged Cipher, or at least not until very high levels.) Most of the subclasses announced so far either balance out a weakness in the PoE 1 class (assassin for lack of good backstab mechanic) or do something unusual and interesting. A subclass that specializes in traps and/or casting spells from items would be better than devoting one of the three subclasses to basic ranged rogue. But I'd prefer something that hasn't been done so often before---surprise us.

Boar monk addicted to snorting magic truffles....

Unless you're a Nalpazca Monk (and the bonuses/resistances are significant enough (and hopefully interesting too))... the idea of a were-(wolf, boar, lion) that uses drugs amuses me. Same goes for any other subclass that specializes in non-wearable, non-weapon items.

Obviously we need too see the actual mechanichs of Poe 2 , but monk/druid at the moment feel appealing for sure! The big alternative is obviously druid/ barbarian, for carnage and frenzy mainly. We have also to consider how the tusk dmg will increase with the levels and what kind of spell comes at lvl 20 for druid... :3 Edit: btw torment reach spam with the base dmg of the tusks will be OP per se, without even counting the other bonuses Of course, just as PoE 1 doesn't allow Novice's Suffering to work with Spiritshift, the Monk's unarmed bonus almost certainly won't apply to the tusks....

Maybe a specific type of Animancer could be a subclass for a particular class. Or several different subclasses could be related to Animancy (though I wouldn't like multiple subclass possibilities devoted to "Wizard Animancer, Cipher Animancer, Rogue Animancer"... I'd prefer more variety). A better way to handle it might be to have an Animancy lab where the PC can experiment and learn. Maybe create items, including summoning or corpse-animating items, or create pets or sidekicks.... (Though an Animancy lab on a ship might not be the best idea if a storm hits.)

Wow... Blood Thirst is much interesting than I thought (and I didn't realize that, despite being WMII content, it's available as early as level 7)... so presumably it works with scrolls and items too. So if there's a mob of weak enemies around a few strong enemies, AoE damage could be positioned to kill at least one weak enemy while purposefully missing others to kill with subsequent casts/attacks in order to maintain 0 recovery time between casts while damaging the stronger enemies with each cast (I'd guess retaliation and DoT effects count towards Blood Thirst too)....

Rogues who can make repeated use of stealth / Shadowing Beyond per encounter, without using up all their per rest Empower points to be effective. Hopefully for at least two of the four subclass options (four counting the base class).

Any idea if Stunning Shots does? Still requires enemies to be engaged with your pet, but if it works with AoE spells that could be interesting. The idea of a Barbarian variation on the SA using Brute Force (scroll nuke spellcasters who have low fortitude?), Greater Frenzy, the yells, Dragon Leap, and that spell-stealing morning star with Carnage amuses me (too bad Carnage no longer works with touch spells apparently)....

So the pistol-wielding (possibly pistol dual wielding?) Orlan is a Cipher-Barbarian. (I really like the concept.) Does this imply there will be a ranged Barbarian subclass? Maybe able to use Carnage with ranged weapons? (Or he could be his own unique subclass for this game.) Or will the class be redesigned so it's less melee-oriented and/or less dependent on Carnage? (There wasn't a way to make ranged Barbarian worthwhile from a gameplay standpoint in PoE 1, was there? Couldn't use ranged weapons while engaged in melee to trigger carnage, right?)

The AD&D-based games had Rangers get a bonus against a specific "racial enemy" of their choosing... PoE 1 already basically had that as a talent for all classes. It would be more interesting to have something like the Black Jacket, but for specific enemy types... perhaps dependent on Bestiary progress (and/or learning from other sources) and actually adapting offense/defense(/position?) for each creature (and maybe getting bonuses for the type of terrain they usually inhabit, if things like weather, storms, natural earthquakes, etc. will now factor into combat). One interesting aspect of subclasses---presumably you can't multiclass two subclasses of the same class. So the only subclasses that an Assassin wouldn't be able to choose are the two other Rogue subclasses. But a multiclass Assassin could choose Black Jacket for specializing in weapons / matching weapons to targets and more robustness in melee, or this hypothetical Ranger for specific enemies / matching tactics to enemies.

In past games these have been really underwhelming (Wizard Slayer from Baldur's Gate, etc.) and they don't seem all that interesting tbh... especially since party size will be decreased by 1. Though they might be less limited with multiclassing.... It would be better to do using talents than whole subclasses (talent could be limited to the "opposing" class or subclass). I'd strongly prefer something more interesting for subclasses....

There's no penalty for using ranged weapons while engaged in melee. So while a tanky ranged character can't engage enemies, he can go ahead of the rest of the party and let enemies engage him (as well as target him with ranged attacks and special abilities). And the ranged attacks could be directed at enemy spellcasters/ranged, who are likely to be easier to damage (and build focus) against anyway. So the main drawbacks would be not using a shield while attacking with your ranged weapon, and not being able to easily intercept enemies headed towards your squishies (though if they engage you and then try to leave engagement they should get hit by a disengagement attack). But you'd still have strong cipher debuffs/disabling spells....

Boooo petless ranger . I am sure this will become the default ranger build for most but i just cant. Maybe the other ranger sub has even better pet ability probably more likely double down on ranged attack. I actually have been running my ranger in melee recently in POE1 and i like that better. Here's to hoping the sub has some ability that is not ranged specific only. got to figure one sub-class focusing on empowering the ranger, while the other his pet., seeing as that dynamic is the class core. Otherwise, it's a decision between ranged/melee, which seems to stray from the class a bit. but who knows. The ability to focus on the ranger or her pet is already present in the class. Look at the Black Jacket---switching weapons during combat to match different opponents isn't the "class core". And fighter isn't primarily a DPS class. Same goes for the Monk taking drugs to buff himself... or the Ranger summoning an undead being. So, with the exception of Assassin, the subclasses are *about* straying from the ordinary, stereotypical class "core", at expense of some of the class's core advantages (that Fighters have high accuracy, that Rangers have a summons they can use at the start of combat, Monks using wounds for special abilities). Subclasses let us do things the "core" class doesn't. And I like that. (Look at the most liked subclasses / kits from other games. Are they the boring, obvious ones that weren't even necessary, that added no color or flavor or interest to the base class? I don't think so.)