SaruNi

They've posted all of the subclasses. Goldpact Knight is a Paladin subclass. No "Knight" fighter subclass though. https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/93848-update-40-multiclassing-part-ii/ "Fighter Black Jacket - Bonus weapon proficiency, reduced Recovery when switching weapon, but lacks Constant Recovery. Devoted - May only be proficient in a single weapon. Higher Penetration and crit damage with that weapon. Suffers Accuracy penalty when using other weapons. Unbroken - Bonuses to Engagement and Disengagement Attacks, but lower Stride. Paladin Bleak Walkers - Flames of Devotion (Remember Rakhan Field) generates black flames and does Corrode damage. Healing given and received is reduced. - Cannot multiclass with priests of Eothas, Berath, or Skaen. Darcozzi Paladini - Lay on Hands (Flames of Darcozzi Palace) creates a flame shield around the paladin. Lower Zeal power. - Cannot multiclass with priests of Berath, Magran, or Skaen. Goldpact Knights - Sworn Enemy (Gilded Enmity) creates protective gold armor on the paladin. Cannot learn Zealous Auras. - Cannot multiclass with priests of Magran or Wael. Kind Wayfarers - Flames of Devotion (Sword and the Shepherd) heals nearby allies. Does less damage against enemies vulnerable to Sneak Attack. - Cannot multiclass with priests of Berath, Magran, Wael, or Skaen. Shieldbearers of St. Elcga - Lay on Hands (St. Elcga's Grace) prevents the target from being knocked out for a short duration. Cannot use Lay on Hands on self. - Cannot multiclass with priests of Skaen, Magran, or Wael."

Transmuters (Wizard Subclass) get Ogre Form. But the lack of Enchantment spells is a huge negative (unless they multiclass... but the non-Wizard spellcasting classes' buffs are generally not caster-only, so you'd probably be better off having the buffer as a separate character rather than multiclass). Where was it said that they do? I don't remember seeing that. Possible I missed it. Wonder if the ogre form is available for wizards that don't do a subclass? Also, the caster subclasses are better seen as specializations within a class rather than classes onto themselves, so, you'd have to give up some things since you're focused on one thing. Shown in a video (granted, not an official announcement so perhaps the ogre transmuters are less "set in stone" (not that anything ultimately is), but still...). See: https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/91439-list-of-subclasses-as-we-learn-about-them/?p=1938501

Transmuters (Wizard Subclass) get Ogre Form. But the lack of Enchantment spells is a huge negative (unless they multiclass... but the non-Wizard spellcasting classes' buffs are generally not caster-only, so you'd probably be better off having the buffer as a separate character rather than multiclass).

One major question on multiclassing with the Druid Shifter subclass: " Shifter - Druid can shift to any animal form, once each, per combat and heals damage each time they shift back. Cannot cast spells while shifted."Do Powers and Invocations count as spells? What about abilities? Chants? Obviously Cipher or Chanter (maybe Troubadour if only phrases count as non-spells... or even if they do, phrase linger keeps having its effect). Imagine a Shifter-Troubadour.... Shifter-Enchanter or Illusionist (maybe Transmuter, with that Ogre form, though I'm not sure what most of the "transmutation" spells would be other than "Form of the Beast"... and giving up Enchantment is a major sacrifice) multiclassing might be fun. Caster-only buffs then shift. Fury Druid - Priest of Eothas (can cast Druid elemental spells) seems redundant at first but mitigates the obvious drawbacks (Fury can't cast Druid restoration spells, Eothas can't cast Priest Protection spells... and Fury Druid's elemental spells are more powerful, perhaps making up for the lower base power level from multiclassing). But the cheesiest elemental combo---Storm spells plus Withdraw---wouldn't be doable (unless another Priest cast it)... otoh Beetle's Shell (maybe plus Woodskin) could substitute (less cheesily). Plus you get to shift into a Storm Blight basically for free, along with the option of getting more Druid spells (and being able to cast more Druid spells per encounter?) than a single-class Druid. The later level PoE 1 druid abilities aren't that great anyway (though of course this could all change in PoE 2). A Transmuter who uses the Ogre form extensively could probably benefit from multiclassing. Again depending partly on what abilities/powers/invocations/chants count as "spells" (spells can't be cast in Ogre form). But mostly because Transmuter loses access to Enchantments, the main Wizard offensive self-buffs. So a Monk-Transmuter (Ogre Monk!) or Barbarian-Transmuter (Berserker Ogre) all seem nice....

One other benefit from Priest/Rogue multiclass---if I remember correctly in PoE 1 Withdraw counts as invisibility, and you can break out of Withdraw by taking any action. So that if a Rogue attacks from Withdraw, it counts as attacking from invisibility for Backstab / Sneak Attack purposes (and you can initiate the backstab from a significant distance away---you'll walk over to your target and it will still count as a backstab). Not 100% certain of this and anything could change in PoE 2 but it would make Priest of Skaen / Rogue multiclass a lot more attractive. (Then later on when Priest of Skaen / Rogue gets access to Deathblows and the more powerful Priest DD spells, they'll probably be doing more damage than a pure Priest despite the power level difference (does Dirty Fighting also increase crit % for spells?)... then at end game add in Minor Avatar to make up for the power level difference in Rogue abilities.)

Edit: on second glance I looked wrong, Minor Avatar as a 7th level Priest spell wouldn't be available to multiclass until level 19. Basically endgame. Otoh Spark the Souls of the Righteous is a 6th level Priest spell which while not caster-centric has a pretty short range: Ramge: 2.5m AoE: 1.75m Radius Allied AoE Foe AoE for 30.0 sec Ignites a powerful zeal within allies that manifests in an aura that Shocks any enemies near them. Might be redundant with Storm spells though. Holy Power and Divine Mark are also relatively short-range spells. A Priest-Druid shapeshifter (or using Form of the Delengan and with Consecrated Ground) or tanky Priest-Wizard might benefit from them more easily than a squishy single-class Priest. Of course it all depends on what the spells are in PoE 2.

If PoE 2 Druid spells continue lacking caster-only self-buffs, even with self-buffs Druid-Priest will have strictly less casting power than single class (in a party with other casters to buff them) until level 19 brings Minor Avatar. But with fewer spells (and more restrictive scroll usage), having more spells than single class could help to counter a wider range of afflictions. Then again it's been said that more classes will be given ways to counter afflictions.... Also, damage type resistances are likely to be more prominent in PoE 2, so having a wider range of spell damage types (and more overall spells you can cast) may be very useful. Consecrated Ground + Spiritshift is nice, though you could get the same effect by having a Priest with Consecrated Ground nearby at all times.

Yes, but when you combine self-buffs from both classes, the difference in "power level" may be more than mitigated, especially if spells can still crit. Though the best Wizard caster-only buff at mid levels might be Deleterious Alacrity of Motion, which makes the most of having more spells to cast by letting you cast at higher rate. (Likewise, the increase in accuracy (and therefore crit rate) from Eldritch Aim and crit rate from Merciless Gaze aren't directly comparable to power level, but they effectively increase power level through crits.) It seems likely that the combination of Minor Avatar, Alacrity, and scaled Eldritch Aim (not to mention Merciless Gaze, Spell Reflection, Grimoire Imprint/Spell Stealing) would make a level 19 Priest/Wizard cast spells with greater effective power than a single class Priest or Wizard. (But at the cost of the highest level Priest spells, which in PoE 1 were very powerful....) If the spells are similar to PoE 1, then early to mid game all the benefits a Wizard would get from multiclassing with a Priest could be gotten by having an actual Priest nearby (even consecrated ground... if the Priest is close by and doesn't have to move to heal other characters... though consecrated ground and other close-range might be the major exceptions). But with Minor Avatar and the more powerful Priest spells the multiclass could be very strong---combining the good, scaling early to mid level Wizard DD and CC spells with the strong later level Priest DD spells. Casting stronger spells that hit and crit more often, having 6 more of them (not counting scrolls), and doing it 1.5x faster (not counting Substantive Phantom)....

So it may not necessarily be clear whose Priest spells would be more powerful---a single-class Priest, or a multiclass Priest-Wizard who uses the Wizard self-buffs. Of course the single-class could still cast higher level spells, buffs take time, etc.... If the relative lack of caster-only Priest spells (until Minor Avatar) doesn't change in PoE 2, casters might gain the least by multiclassing into Priest... perhaps that partly explains the partial hybrid Priest/Wizard and Priest/Druid subclasses. Otoh Priest spell effectiveness could gain a lot from Alacrity of Motion and Eldritch Aim... and once multiclass characters get access to Minor Avatar (at level 19) it could be a huge power boost (depending on what other buffs are available and whether they stack).

If I understand correctly, the current system makes spells once / encounter (or one spell / encounter per ability point), casters have to spend an ability point to learn a new spell (priests don't get access to all spells of the level anymore, just those they've learned), and single-class characters get one ability point per character level. Multiclass characters get an extra ability point at 1st level and every 4th level, so they can potentially cast more spells / encounter than single-class characters. So that partly makes up for having a lower power level and delayed access to higher level spells. Still, having two separate casters would be better than having a multiclass character. But PoE 2 is going to decrease the party size by one, so slots will be at a premium. With the extra per encounter spells it's not completely clear which is better, though I guess scrolls may make up for the spell number deficit (but then, some spells probably won't be available as scrolls). Another major advantage of multiclassing is the use of spells that can only target the caster. In PoE 1 Wizards have a lot of good ones (defensive, offensive buffs, spell stealing, weapon summoning), though Priests only have Minor Avatar (and Consecrated Ground is "within radius of caster"). Druids have a few "within radius of caster" AoE effects, and also firebrand, Taste of the Hunt (the healing part), Rot Skulls, and Avenging Storm... not to mention spiritshifting (and other non-spell caster-only abilities).

Also, like the Wizard subclasses, the Trickster and Priest of X subclasses will hopefully have an additional bonus relevant to the concept. Priest of Skaen / Rogue multiclass might seem redundant too, but can get more overall Rogue abilities than any other combination. Though getting access to higher level abilities later will probably limit their abilities within a single Rogue tree (so a pure Rogue would be able to have more abilities in say the shadowing beyond tree, but at the expense of other Rogue abilities). And these "redundant" multiclass combinations also let you get around the new restriction on specializing in one of the classes at the expense of the other---you're essentially no longer forced to split the 2 points between the two classes, so you can be a Rogue/Wizard who specializes almost exclusively (or even exclusively) in Wizard, or a Priest/Wizard, Priest/Rogue, or Priest/Druid who specializes in the Wizard or Rogue or Druid part. So it's a bit like getting 2 levels in Rogue and then switching to Wizard, except you can also get higher level Rogue abilities if you like (though limited by ability tree prerequisites, and you can learn more spells overall).

A multiclass character gets 2 ability points at level 1 and at every 4th level (which have to be split between the classes), while a single class gets 1 per level. So a Trickster/Wizard or Wizard/Priest of (Wael/Magran) should be able to learn more Wizard spells than a pure Wizard. (Likewise Priest of Berath / Druid.) However, PoE 1 only had about 2 illusion-ish spells per level. Since multiclass characters get access to higher level spells later (every 4th level), a Trickster/Priest of Wael multiclass would have more than enough points to get every illusion spell available to them. So it depends on how many illusion spells there are and, probably more importantly, how many Priest/Rogue abilities you want... as well as whether Priests of Wael and Tricksters can use illusion spells from grimoires. Hopefully Rogue bonuses still apply to spells, and spells still crit.... A single class Priest of Wael or Trickster would have fewer abilities but, if illusion spells per level are limited as in PoE 1, potentially significantly more illusion spells. But they'd have few or no ability points left over for getting Priest/Rogue abilities. If there are 2 illusion spells / spell level they could get a new illusion spell at each level up (they access a new spell level every 2nd character level) but at the expense of all their ability points. If there are 3 illusion spells per spell level, single class and multiclass can get about the same max number of illusion spells (but staggered for multiclass). If there are 4 illusion spells per spell level, multiclass should be able to get more than single class.

Sneak attack in PoE 1 only works with certain afflictions, right---"when the target is Blinded, Flanked, Hobbled, Paralyzed, Petrified, Prone, Stuck, Stunned, or Weakened"? Kind Wayfarer - Rogue isn't going to be an optimal DPS build, and most of the PoE 1 Rogue debuffs trigger sneak attack, but what about the Trickster (gets wizard illusion spells in exchange for weaker sneak attack)? The obvious seeming PoE 1 Illusion spells don't trigger sneak attack: Arkemyr's Dazzling Lights - dazed Bewildering Spectacle - confused Confusion Arkemyr's Wondrous Torment Ryngrim's Repulsive Visage - sickened / terrified Ryngrim's Enervating Terror Llengrath's Dread Haze - Sickened (Not sure if Arkemyr's Capricious Hex or Wall of Many Colors would be illusion, they do cause paralyze.) And about half the likely Illusion spells prevent damage (wizard's double, mirror image, etc., maybe even the spells that create a duplicate/dummy of the caster). So a Kind Wayfarer-Trickster tank/support character might not be bad. (Though why not just KW - Illusionist? PoE 2 rogue is supposed to be sturdier than in PoE 1... and there's also Adept Evasion. But the main advantage might be the rogue's ability to disengage and move around the battlefield to get within range to heal or rescue squishies---the PoE 2 video showed the icon for Coordinated Positioning.) Wonder what schools the wizard spells from PoE 1 will be put in. They'll probably add some to balance out the schools and their different power levels. If the Trickster gets access to the highest level illusion spells... would that even be worth it? Obvious "illusion" spells in PoE 1 seem to taper off at higher levels with the exception of Llengrath's Dread Haze (which I've never tried---I guess "foe health and endurance concealed for 20 seconds" means they won't initiate any heals triggered by low endurance?).

Very glad to see the subclass bonuses/penalties aren't just those listed in what Sawyer posted. The Wizard subclasses look much more interesting now.

My first reaction was "that's a terribly lazy and boring way to implement the Trickster archetype, and with multiclassing as an option it's especially boring... is it so hard to come up with some more Rogue abilities?".... But if a Trickster multiclasses into something other than Wizard/Illusionist, it's like having the abilities of three classes. Or for maximal illusion a Beguiler/Trickster.... A weaker sneak attack is a huge penalty, so stealth/shadowing beyond needs to be significantly improved for the Trickster to really be worthwhile. (Alternately they could improve Rogue disables or reserve the Trickster as a sort of "picks locks and avoids combat" subclass but both those ideas are terribly boring.)

Nice concept, but not a great name for it.... While it's been done before with warrior types, having a rogue with these mechanics is somewhat original. One of the main issues with rogues attacking from stealth in PoE 1 was that they'd get targeted by multiple enemies and hit repeatedly. This turns that into a virtue---I like the idea of the rogue who pops out of the shadows to take on a mob. Rogues are going to be sturdier in PoE 2 but I still wonder how much use they can get out of "Blooded" with a limited health pool (let yourself get hit, then run?... get hit then apply buffs / disables to make yourself unhittable? or maybe have great defenses and self-injure, maybe via monk multiclass or dangerous implements?). I also like that it doesn't limit their effectiveness to mobs / flanking situations (depending on how large the Blooded bonus is---hopefully the bonus for taking lots of damage / being near death will be large enough to make it wortwhile as a possible strategy). It would be amusing if a rogue could gather a mob of weak enemies around himself for the bonuses while firing ranged weapons at stronger enemies (or boss fights with lots of adds)... that would be counterintuitive, but in a fun way. (And explainable as the mob of enemies, the chaotic blur of combating bodies, making it more difficult for the distant enemy to see the attack coming.) Also seems like a good subclass for those great crit-me builds Boeroer posted. Not to mention retaliation effects, parry, etc.

If a Ranger subclass got (extra) bonuses for specific weather / terrain types, druid or other caster could also create them (or Ranger could multi-class)... maybe a proc-on-hit effect relative to weather / terrain too (for example, if there's already a weather/terrain effect the proc on hit could increase the chance of it applying to those not yet affected---prone in an earthquake, hobbled in brambles or vines, lightning in storm). Even with many different types of weather and terrain, they could be grouped into general enough categories (as with creature types in PoE 1)---or categories could be combined (as with weapon types in PoE 1)---so a Ranger subclass like the Blackjacket but for weather/terrain could be doable. Could be combined with specializing in different creature types (bonus defending against them, and extra bonus when attacking their weaknesses---which again creates synergy with casters, for example flaming weapons vs. a creature vulnerable to fire) and learning from bestiary. So maybe just as the Blackjacket starts with an extra weapon proficiency and the quickswitch ability, the environment / creature specialist Ranger could start with one environment, one weather, and one creature type, and gain more through bestiary and its environment / weather equivalents....

It's not "XP allocated to individual skill", it's a skill that scales with areas you've explored. Like the way PoE 1 Bestiary has a % that increases as you kill more of that particular entry. And the way PoE keeps track of which areas you've explored. They'd just have to also count terrain type and weather type, make it like the Bestiary as a %, and use that to determine bonuses / penalties. And for the melee-focused, anti-disengagement Ranger: to counter special abilities that result in disengagement (like Rogue's Escape, or shadowing beyond/invisibility, or even teleport abilities), an enemy could be "marked" so that the Ranger has a % chance to follow them wherever they go, scaling with familiarity with the terrain and/or weather conditions.

Maybe instead of just choosing one terrain / weather type to specialize in for the whole game, let the subclass learn about different terrain / weather conditions by exploring them in the game and base the bonuses on that. (With maybe one initial terrain / weather type they've already got a high degree of knowledge about.) The anti-disengagement Ranger could then get a bonus to the number of enemies that can be engaged, depending on knowledge of the terrain... and disengagement attacks could include a stun, prone, maybe a blind, et cetera. And there could be other ways of learning about different terrains / weather conditions (from wise people, from trainers, from books maybe, from spirits or visions or ciphers or gods, etc.). Another boost to melee ranger would be making the ability that gives the Ranger a bonus to attacking enemies the pet has engaged also give the pet a bonus for attacking enemies the Ranger has engaged....

Ranger obviously has some abilities that are ranged-only, so a melee ranger subclass would be good. Preferably not just a stereotypical old D&D dual-wielding DPS ranger... what about a tankier ranger who uses the environment? Maybe prevents enemies from disengaging (% chance to prevent disengagement through ordinary movement, and lower % chance to prevent special abilities from causing disengagement)... and gets extra bonuses against elemental or terrain-related (from improved balance and aim on specific terrain or in specific weather conditions, etc.) attacks (maybe choosing a specific terrain or set of weather conditions, or learning them over the course of the game)?

For Assassins, extra damage for melee weapons could be explained as a "twist the knife" type ability. And since the bonuses will already be dependent on positioning, bonuses could scale with proximity to target (for both melee and ranged weapons... so you could walk up to someone and stick a gun to some vital area, but you wouldn't be able to "twist the knife" with a gun, or shift it once you've made contact to target vital areas... and if you have a melee weapon with a long reach, you can backstab from farther away, but you may be less accurate in striking vital areas and less able to "twist the knife" for extra damage). Edit: Or, if they want to keep the subclass bonuses relatively simple, they could just make the Assassin bonus dependent on position (behind to get effect + scaling with proximity) and give melee rogue backstab a buff with a "Twist the Knife" type ability that gives a bonus to melee weapon backstab and sneak attack. Maybe another backstab ability that adds a very brief stun (or other very disabling) effect too so stilettos can get in a second backstab but not long enough for a second pistol backstab (without risking interrupts...). Also, remember they've said that rogues will be "sturdier" in PoE 2, which means there probably won't be as much of a defensive advantage to ranged over melee---so melee rogue is already getting a relative buff. In addition to supporting melee-only and ranged-only playstyles, PoE 2 should support mixed melee and range characters. Designated "melee-only" or "ranged-only" subclasses should be limited to cases where the base class already includes a focus on abilities of the other type---most obviously casters whose spells and abilities are almost exclusively ranged, like ciphers with Soulblade. Or a ranged barbarian subclass (since ordinary carnage is melee weapon only), like what the gun-wielding orlan barbarian/cipher companion appears to be.

Instead of making Assassin melee-specific, they could just make the bonuses dependent on weapon type, with melee getting a significantly larger bonus than ranged, and certain melee weapon types getting more of a bonus (that could also solve the issue with stilettos etc. being underpowered for backstab).

Are all those "X Strike" abilities works with ranged weapons? Yes. Backstab works with melee weapons too, but you have to be within 2 meters of your target. needing to be within 2 meters kind of nullifies the point of ranged. Not completely. Unlike melee backstab, you can still run before getting engaged. And you can get off a high-powered firearm shot. They changed backstab so that your first *two* consecutive strikes count as backstabs, so a quick-firing bow could let you get in two backstabs before having to escape. (Or, with sufficiently good defenses and/or CC, two firearm backstabs.) Similarly, I guess they'd feel obliged to balance ranged riposte so that firearms aren't clearly far superior to bows. Maybe adjust the % chance of riposte to 90% for melee, 70% for ranged non-firearms, 50% for firearms. (Maybe a separate % category for two-handed too... 95% one-handed special riposte weapons, 85% regular one-handed, 70% two-handed, 60% bow, 45% crossbow, 30% firearm (or just make it dependent on attack speed and whether melee or ranged)... and/or accuracy bonuses or penalties etc. Lots of options.)

Yes, that was a typo. Edited it.

Are all those "X Strike" abilities works with ranged weapons? Yes. Backstab works with ranged weapons too, but you have to be within 2 meters of your target. Riposte iirc is the only one requiring that a melee weapon be equipped, since otherwise gun ripostes would be ridiculous. But for a Swashbuckler-esque rogue, that could be fun (with balancing so it's not OP and so that melee riposte is good too... a different take on the "Swashbuckler" archetype to match the pirate theme)...