Raven Darkholme

I don't have balancing patch but wouldn't brilliant still restore fighter abilities normally? So all you need is bloodmage into any kind of fighter (depending on whether u wanna use SOF it doesn't to be tactician, but ofc without SOF it'd have to be tactician ... kinda ... not really, there still is brilliant from the gods + WoD)

Any class can do dig site with relative ease if you just lure the enemies one by one with traps. But honestly sneaking by is a lot more painless.

Well it doesn't take that long to buff priest + monk and offensively cipher mainly benefits from auto attacks into Soul Annihilation. Sadly the way poe2 is balanced is very different from poe 1 so all the aoe skills like mind blades lose their appeal very quickly. (everyone is a "bullet sponge" in this game once you hit later game content, I bet there is some random mobs in dlcs that have more hp than Adra Dragon. Barbarian is one of those classes that hugely benefits from multiclassing for sure, Soul Blade/ Barb or wizard/barb are just too nice.

Well it all depends on playstyle, but if you don't mind using Ancestor's memory and Salvation of time, then everyone will have infinite resources anyway. Single class Monk doesn't even need Ancestor's memory there is multiple other ways to spam WoTW.

If you don't want a late game class I can only recommend playing single class over multiclass. You get access to powerful PL7 abilities super early (level 13 I believe) and for some classes like priests even PL6 is massive (level 10). And if you play in a party you REALLY don't lose much going single class, there is some super situational interesting things that even in a party can only be done with a multiclass, but a party with only single classes will be as effective as one with multiclasses, but you unlock your abilities much earlier.

You can't export in solo games tho. And some items are straight up cheesy to export like least unstable coil or the weyc items. There is no point in going to Dunnage first, in fact on the Ultimate it would be a massive time waste. All you need is respec on Maje for mechanics, and either a Thief's Putty or Adra potions + Hylea. You won't be able to disarm the super high level traps, but you stop getting xp before that anyway, but you can make a path to the traps in the back which will give you xp, if you follow exactly the traps you can disarm.

You can't self cast Ancestor's memory.

I only ever played solo lone wolf (so no 2nd companion) and in my first runs I never even used the bag trick. That being said bag trick is super useful for skipping thru Act 1 because in Act 2 you get all the broken source skills and it is just much more fun to not use bag.

For solo a bloodmage/fighter is easier to play than a single class blood mage but it is definitely viable and more interesting to play single class.

I think Original Sins 1 and 2 are the cheesiest games in the universe, so this made me smile They just don't have many "exploits" as even the cheese is intended and most unintended interactions (mostly those ignoring the turn based mechanics) have been removed. The most cheese thing in both games is to just fill a little bag with the heaviest objects and oneshot everything. It takes 0 skill but somehow still gives you this weird feeling of ... accomplishment the first time you do it, but ofc it gets old very quickly like very ripe cheddar.

Yeah if you get bored easily wizards are the way to go. You can approach every single fight in a completely different way and still be effective.

I have experienced this too and can't give you an exact reason why. If I had to guess it is related to how many phrases you end combat with/or even ending with an invocation. If you have perma brilliant from SOT/SoF/WoD you will always start combat with max phrases.

Stone of Power is pretty decent for that free +1 PL, but losing amulet slot isn't the best imo. Missile Gloves are pretty decent since you can get 2 of them quite early. Necklace of fireballs is also really early it's just not the most powerful spell, but good dmg decent aoe...

I have read that origin for the use of cheesy quite a bit as well but imo it's a completely different meaning than using it for cheese in game. Maybe my english is just not good enough since I'm not a native speaker, but the 1896 usage of the word seems to be mostly used for something of lower quality than advertised. Most speedrun exploits require quite a bit of mechanical practice/skill but idk if I ever would call those cheese, I don't think any exploit has to be automatically cheese, but as we already saw in this discussion everyone seems to ahve their own personal usage of the word. Also I highly doubt many new players use exploits in Deadfire, it is mostly solo potd/TOI or even Ultimate players who look for those. There is no sane reason to use SoF with a party if I can set simple AI scripts that make my party more powerful than a solo char will ever be.

Well the term originated in spamming certain blockstrings on SF2 which back then people didn't always know how to counter. So the term cheese can be used far wider range than the term cheating and also applied to Wall of Draining, SoT, etc. I also somewhat doubt the developers intended for those to make you immortal, ofc I don't know that for sure. (Especially Wall of draining can be used exactly the same way as Strand of favour, all it needs is a fight with enough enemies, like Belranga or if you wanna be silly move around while having Eddie Brock on you. Your durations will shoot up so fast that its even arguably easier or at least less tedious to extend them for the rest of the game than Strand, the main difference is you need high enough level for wall of draining., while SOF can be gotten right after maje) But I totally agree that anyone can call anything what they like, even I often say "this feels like cheating". But there is no real point in asking another person why they would "cheat" in their single player game, especially if they are "just" exploiting.

I usually go Sandswept Ruins - Deadlight - Dunnage. (Just be sure not to do any dangerous fighting unless you're 100% sure you can handle it, Deadlight can be resolved 100% without fighting and on Dunnage only one quest needs to be skipped). After that you have free reign of the map, but ofc Neketaka would be fastest xp, rushing Hasongo before Neketaka would be early access to strand of favour and all the cheese connected to it.

Depends on whether you play on TOI or not. Some classes can even do digsite with relative ease but I'd not try it on TOI. After dig site without TOI most classes can do all easier fights but ofc it is much smarter to get some xp via non combat first.

definition of cheese: "cheesing (v.): defeating an enemy in ways not intended by the developer, including glitching, or using unintended mechanics or manipulating the enemy into positions in which they do not behave, or cannot respond as intended." As far as I know cheese is always either related to AI or bug exploits. But as you said lets leave it at that this has been discussed to death now. edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_video_game_terms Also has a definition for both cheesing and cheating: cheese (or cheesing)Cheese(ing) refers to a tactic in a video game that may be considered cheap, unfair, or overly easy, requiring no skill by others as to otherwise complete a difficult task. What may account as cheese depends on the type of game. Its origin traces back to players of Street Fighter II who would frequently use the same combo move over and over against to defeat their opponent. In multiplayer games like MOBAs or hero shooters, certain team compositions of heroes are considered cheese compositions for how easy they can defeat most other team compositions. In other games, cheese can refer to exploiting glitches and other bugs to make difficult gameplay sections easy cheat A game code that allows the player to beat the game or acquire benefits without earning them. Cheats are used by designers to test the game during development and are often left in the release version.[14]See god mode, aimbot, ESP cheats, noclip mode, wallhack, and Konami Code. cheating To play the game unfairly; giving an unfair advantage via illegitimate means.

Someone either needs to put their reading glasses on or just has an interesting way to interpret what others type. I'll quote myself from the post in question: Maybe the repetiition of the word cheese and the "if you aren't above" wasn't enough?

Someone else revived this thread asking about wizard solo. About Monk: Wounds disappear out of combat, you can't use abilities using Wound sout of combat, so SOF doesn't work on it and if you extend it in a fight with a party using a priest it would still disappear after combat ends.

It was never directed at you (or even anyone personal) I straight up just wrote "beware there might be negative comments about this" (or something along those lines :P) Personally If I play a class that is a wizard/or multiclassed with another "caster" whoeveer doesn't have access to monastic unarmed I will always use that draining touch cheese (and yes I learned it from you ;)). I also sometimes use the charged items trick but it isn't super useful for most scenarios and I will always use it very specifically. I don't export items cuz it requires you to recruit a party member.

That is mostly true but not always. Single class Assassin is by far the strongest solo class in the game if you use all exploits the game allows, if not it is still very strong but a multiclass would arguably be stronger (for solo) Single class monk is also very powerful, it is kinda the same deal as assassin tho, if you want an exploit free run a multiclass is likely better for solo. Also multiclasses being stronger mainly applies to solo if you play with a party single class will be stronger for almost all classes with very few specific exceptions. The cipher in 1 was mainly great (once again for solo) due to an exploit where an ability was not working as the description stated. In Deadfire Single class cipher is ok but definitely in no scenario will it ever be better than multiclass. (for solo, in a party single class ciphers are great) edit: also the only reason why multiclasses are so strong for solo specifically is because of how overpowered priests and wizards are (and to an extent fighter), if priest didn't have salvation of time and wizard didn't have wall of draining a lot of classes owuldn't automatically be better as multiclass, even tho there are some great multiclasses without priest or wizard but usually they have a fighter or monk in there.

This is not about hurt feelings. This is about me giving useful information (whether op wants to use it or not, or even already knows about it) and me not wanting to deal with a stupid argument every single time. You'd be surprised how many people not only don't know about this, but also find the info useful. But if theres gonna be a debate everytime I mention this I might as well try and stop it before it begins. In my opinion For solo single class chanters you don't wanna use invocations as much as a multiclass or with a party. Many lives chant is your "tank" and it disappears if you use an invocation. Personally I would always use Strand of favor because Single class solo chanter isn't very strong compared to priests, fighters and wizards and even paladins. (this is the main reason I personally use it in the first place to play interesting non meta classes) But for people who absolutely don't want to use it I would definitely go either Bellower or troubadour (I would not say Bellower is better than Troubadour, my point was more that Bellower imo is better suited for single class, never meant it was the best single class chanter) and only use invocations when you can kill a couple of enemies with it. ofc IF you go Bellower single class you can nuke A LOT of enemies at the start of a ship fight with empowered sashas Eld Narys curse. But in general you want to have the small skellies from many lives up to tank for you and attack from range or if you can't avoid close combat kill them with grave calling chill fog (your own skellies) which also paralyzes if you have both chilling and paralyzing upgrade.

Bellower is only really good as single class solo (obviously it's not bad as multiclass, others are just better). Overall as everyone stated Troubadour is the best multiclass. The skald however can hold their own in a lategame scenario where you are willing to abuse Scordeo's Blade Cascade. As a chanter/priest chanter/wizard you can extend it with their kit, as a chanter/fighter as op wants to play you'd have to resort to Strand of favour cheese which is frowned upon as "cheating" by some players. Either way a skald with perma Blade Cascade setting AI to spam Her Revenge Swept Across the Land is even stronger than a Troubadour, especially if you combine it with up to 200% damage lash from Deltro's helm, which can also be abused with strand. Troubadour will definitely have more casts of her revenge, which is overall the strongest invocation, excluding megabosses where weapons are generally stronger especially with scordeos or ranged weapon kiting with Many lives pass by. Bellower only really shines with Eld Nary's Curse, which only a sc chanter can get, together with Sasha's Her Tears cana lso be a good invocation for Bellower tho if you really wanna multiclass.

Yes, it is very hard for me to understand why there even is a disagreement here. Calling bug abuse/exploiting "cheating" is just wrong by definition already. A cheat is abusing outside tools like mods cheat engine or in games like Poes case even the console. As you said if some people want to do completely exploit free runs ok cool for them. (It's also strange to me why some of those people seem to think they need to point out how bad they think it is for others to exploit, when we're talking about a single player game) But to advertise using other exploits/bugs just because the magnitude/impact of them on the game is slightly lower is weird to me. Either all exploits are fair game or none of them, but this in turn means only a few selected classes will kill megabosses solo and even less classes will be able to complete the ultimate. Most people who use strand of favour are just sick and tired of seeing only priests and bloodmage, and very few people have the patience to kill every single enemy with slow endless dots or chanter summons only.