Lancer

And this is the point. People who expected Torment to have the same combat focus as BG1/2 did are missing the point. Torment's focus was never on combat albeit Torment's combat was plenty satisfying for me personally.

Never said it did. You just conveniently ignored my other examples...

You actually beat the demon? Congrats. Quite an accomplishment. I can beat Baldurdash's ToB patches yet I have never been able to beat that demon. I think it says a lot about that encounter's difficulty.

OTOH, I can play Torment today and derive the same enjoyment I did then.

People complaining about how "easy" Torment combat was seem to forget how difficult it was to defeat the demon in Curst. Trias's prision with all the gehreleths and mercykillers wasn't exactly a cakewalk either. I don't recall Nordom's maze to be exactly "easy" either. In fact, the demon in Curst was harder than any of BG2's dragons.

Illithids were quite simple to kill once you cast "Chaos" (IIRC) on yourself as to rendering yourself invulnerable to their psionics.

The combat works fine here and I have beaten Torment over half a dozen times.

The Bhaalspawn fight song in Throne of Bhaal. That was the best.

This is true. If I were to define an RPG it would look very similar to this as well. Stat-based mechanics are just one of the defining attributes but not the only one. A careful definition of "roleplaying" as a defining attribute needs to be taken into account as well.

The PnP game is very good too. It is my inspiration for my own mecha Target Earth RPG.

I also have soft spot in my heart for Rance Culzus and The Commander from Target Earth for the Genesis. This was the first game that left me in awe. Being a space nut, this game captivated me more than any other at the time. I have beaten it hundreds of times (literally) and in fact, I have beaten it a couple more times just a couple of weeks ago. I am even devising plans of making my own homebrew PNP campaign based on that one game. Gosh, how I *love* Target Earth

With the wiseman I am assuming you mean Graf? I thought Id became even more interesting once you found out his secret. And it was quite a secret indeed! He was just so purely evil capable of destroying entire cities by himself and driving Ramsus mad. And he had an "aura" of coolness mixed in with that cool theme song of his that really set him apart. It was a b**** too to fight him the first time. That was the hardest fight in the game for me. And you are right about Xenogear's villains. They were certainly more complex than anything in the BG games.

What was I saying about ID and Xenogears.. Oh yeah, that he is a good villain.. Sorry Calax, I am just trying to help you out here.

You are right. These people aren't worth the trouble. c-ya. lol

Fine I'll bite: In the case of SoA, a villain that helps in some way shape or form advance the main storyline of the saga. Did Irenicus do this? Then no. He fails my definition by default.

Is this hard to understand? I believe Sarevok is a better villain than Irenicus. Of course I am going to defend him just like you would defend Irenicus. But notice I did it without insulting anyone personally or talking in a condescending tone although I have received that from some of you (not from you in particular of course) various times in this thread and I have tried my best to remain my cool... :cool:

Typical Volourn post. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You mean you are going to finally end your endless rambling and let this thread run its course? (w00t) As I was saying, ID was a good console RPG villain...

Keep Going Numbersman.. You are doing great!

Ahhh.. No. I never attacked anyone who said that Sarevok wasn't a good villain. I, OTOH, have been attacked for saying that Irenicus is a bad villain. Try again.

To satiate your curiosity.

Numbersman: Still going at it man? You are still hitting nothing but air. So are you arguing that is a *fact* that Irenicus was a good villain just because you say so? It is IMPOSSIBLE that someone out there may find him not so good of a villain? You argue this? It is my opinion that Irenicus wasn't a good villain. Period. Is it too difficult to comprehend that someone may think that Irenicus wasn't a good villain for SoA? Or does it bother you that someone holds the opposite opinion to you on the matter? In which case, I would respond that you have some people skills to learn, my friend.

To get this thread back on the right track... As for console RPGs, my favorite villain was probably Kaizack for Super Hydlide on the Genesis. For JRPGs, I thought ID from Xenogears was the best. I had actually forgotten about ID until now, but come to think of it he is probably the best villain I have seen in any RPG (computer or console).

Good point. There are RPGs out there that depend as much on the player's raw skill as their character's stats..Morrowind is one. So is Deus Ex to some extent. Gothic is another... By Ender's definition these might not be RPGs if we are going by "the core mechanism is stat-based gameplay" argument. Or is it ok that stat-based gameplay not be the main driver if it is a hybrid RPG? If you start saying this though then you start breaking all the rules. Especially since all these titles are marketed as RPGs, hybrids and all.

Thanks for your .02 cents.