KDubya

Not to mention that all of the deep and detailed discussions that we have here on the official Obsidian forums NEVER get any participation or feedback from Obsidian because they only discuss on other forum boards. It makes me wonder what the point of having a beta was in the first place. Things we've identified as being a concern: Resolve not having a use - 'fixed' by trashing Might and making one or the other a true dump stat for many and a massive headache for any hybrid. Dual wielding being 45% better than anything else - 'fixed' by slowing down all combat recoveries. A better solution could have been to reduce penetration and damage but keep the speed. Multiclassing, especially of two melee powerhouse types being decidedly better - 'fixed' by reducing the benefits of many abilities such as berserker rage, lightning strikes and flames of devotion. Sure that makes them weaker but it makes single classes as weak if not more so. Power levels affect some abilities massively and others are untouched but both are non-described in game and only by trial, error and taking notes can you determine what might be the effect. Early abilities being much more powerful than their higher level upgrades - Consider Constant Recovery; the free ability is much better than the higher level upgrade. Swap that around and single vs multi gets a little more balanced. More things that I can't recall If the game was going to be based on the game elements from PoE then that'd be fine but they are massively changing everything and it does not appear that they are doing a very good job of it.

They don't stack now?

​The only changes are that weapons with recovery all gained one second. This affects bows and implements, firearms are the same. Two Handed Ranged ArbalestBlunted criticals - no extra damage from critical hits but the extra penetration still helps Unfit for melee - enemies have +10 to hit you in melee 23 - 28 pierce damage Avg = 25.5 penetration = 9 Range = 12 Attack time 0.7 seconds Reload time 6.0 seconds (not affected by armor) DPS = 3.81 ArquebusBlunted criticals - no extra damage from critical hits but the extra penetration still helps Unfit for melee - enemies have +10 to hit you in melee an unmarked -5 accuracy 24 - 32 pierce damage, Avg = 28 Penetration = 9 Range = 12 Attack time 0.7 sec Reload time = 6.8 sec (Not affected by armor) DPS = 4.12 ​3.73 DPS w/-5 accuracy = 3.79 ​ 3.43 CrossbowBonus crits - 10% hit >crit conversion, roughly = +2% damage w/o considering penetration effects Unfit for melee - enemies have +10 to hit you in melee 19 - 24 pierce damage, Avg = 21.5 Penetration = 7 Range = 12 Attack time 0.7 Reload 5.0 (not affected by armor) DPS = 3.77 DPS with hit>crit = 3.85 Hunting Bow+5 accuracy Unfit for melee - enemies have +10 to hit you in melee 12 - 17 slash pierce, Avg = 14.5 Penetration = 5 Range = 12 Attack 0.9 Recovery 3.0​ 4.0 DPS = 3.72​ 2.96 DPS with +5 accuracy = 4.10​ ​3.26 War Bowunfit for melee - enemies have +10 to hit you in melee 14 - 18 damage slash pierce, Avg = 16 Penetration = 7 Range = 12 Attack 1.1 Recovery 3.0 ​4.0 DPS = 3.90 ​3.14 Rod13 - 19 slash pierce, Avg = 16 Penetration = 5 Range = 8 Attack 1.1 Recovery 3.0 ​4.0 DPS = 3.90 ​3.14 ​One handed Ranged BlunderbussBlunted Criticals - no extra damage from critical hits but the extra penetration still helps ​unmarked -10 accuracy ​5 -8 pierce with 5 projectiles, Avg = 6.5 Penetration = 5 ​Range = 4 Attack = 1.1 ​Reload = 6.0 (not affected by armor) DPS with shield in off hand = 4.58 (3.84 w/accuracy malus) ​DPS with single wielding for the +12 accuracy = 5.46 (4.59 w/accuracy malus)​ Dual wielding lets you fire one then fire the other before reloading, or you can have a melee in other hand and it benefits from dual wielding for -50% recovery Pistol Blunted Criticals - no extra damage from critical hits but the extra penetration still helps 19 - 26 pierce damage, Avg = 22.5 Penetration = 5 Range = 8 Attack = 1.1 Reload = 5.0 (not affected by armor) DPS with shield in off hand = 3.69 ​DPS with single wielding for the +12 accuracy = 4.40​ Dual wielding lets you fire one then fire the other before reloading, or you can have a melee in other hand and it benefits from dual wielding for -50% recovery Sceptre10 - 14 crush slash, avg = 12 Penetration = 7 Range = 4 Attack = 0.7 Recovery = 3.0 ​4.0 DPS with shield in off hand = 3.24 (3.89 w/modal) ​2.55 (3.06 with modal) DPS with single wielding = 4.02 (4.82 w/modal) ​3.17 (3.80 with modal) DPS with dual wielding = 5.45 (6.54 w/modal) ​ 3.43 (4.11 w/modal) WandUnfit for melee - enemies have +10 ​+5 to hit you in melee 7 - 11 pierce, avg = 9 Penetration = 5 Range = 8 Attack = 0.7 Recovery = 2.0​ 3.0 DPS with shield in off hand = 3.33​ 2.43 DPS with single wielding = 4.13​ 3.02 DPS with dual wielding = 5.29​ ​3.21 ​Analysis Best Alpha Striker is Arquebus for range or dual Blunderbuss Best Alpha Striker with a Full Attack is dual pistol for range or dual blunderbuss (dual scepters when criticals are plentiful) Best sustained DPS in heavy armor single wielded pistol or single wielded blunderbuss Best sustained DPS when penetration is needed Dual Sceptres Best sustained DPS when in melee Dual Sceptres ​Ranked DPS Single wield blunderbuss 4.59 dps Single wield pistol 4.40 dps dual wield scepter with modal 4.11 dps crossbow 3.85 dps blunderbuss with shield 3.84 dps Arbalest 3.81 dps single wield scepter with modal 3.80 dps pistol with shield 3.69 dps Arquebus 3.43 dps hunting bow 3.26 dps dual wield wands 3.21 dps warbow 3.14 dps rod 3.14 dps scepter with shield with modal 3.06 single wield wand 3.02 dps wand with shield 2.43 dps ​Analysis Firearms are quite good as they are not affected by heavy armor. Bows which were not great before are now worse with the slower recovery

To expand on what I said previously, a priest of Wael sort of gets you a triple class with its access to the fast cast defensive boosting illusion spells. Those spells are currently the best part of a wizard multiclass as they are very fast to cast, are usable in every encounter and make a huge difference to your survivability. The only thing I'd wish for would be a melee summonable weapon instead of the rod. The illusion buffs are best served in melee combat as are many of the priest buffs. You could even forego using the summoned rod and just stick with normal melee weapons and rely on the great priest buffs to become the powerhouse that you can be. For stats I'd not drop anything below a ten, which is my approach for pretty much every class. Add some to strength, dexterity and intellect if you are going more for a weapon user or perhaps leave strength and resolve at ten and spend the points in dexterity, perception and intellect to have faster, more accurate and longer lasting abilities. Another similarly interesting class to build around is the Trickster. Their illusion spell access is less but still makes a big difference in combat

In an earlier Beta patch i had a Templar - Priest of Wael/Paladin (forgot which order) It was very, very tanky in melee. The free illusion spells add a lot of deflection which stacks with the large +20 defense for everything that Paladins get with Deep Faith. When you activate Arcane Veil your deflection is at +70 and you basically are invulnerable. It also gave you priest spells and paladin auras so you were very team friendly. A priest -Ranger would be good as far as getting better use from the priest weapon which is a rod for Wael, oryou could go dual wielding scepters for the best ranged damage in the game. A barbarian mix would shore up some of the defensive shortcomings of the barbarian while adding all the priest goodies. Another to consider would be a Chanter/priest. It'd be another great party synergizer with chants, invocations and priest spells. Maybe go with a summoner and stay in the back blasting with the summoned rod and summoning hordes.

My math gives me different result.13% chance to miss * 20% = 2.6% of all attacks are misses converted to grazes. Graze does 50% damage so 2.6% * 50% = 1.3% more damage. It's not like 1H style is UP, it's badly designed. It has to be a bug because it was badly designed in vanilla PoE as well and Obs eventually replaced this bad design with a better one: hit to crit. Obsidian designers are too good to intentionally replace good design with a horrible one. Of course Obs had to decrease attack speed of DW, not, for example, damage. Let's make thing closer to each other! Why diversify, it can be bad for balance! If everything becomes identical perfect balance will be achieved! Let's go in that direction! So one handed style is even worse of a choice. They had to do something about dualwielding. Before it was near 45% (9.54 vs 6.62) better dps wise compared to a two handed weapon. It made choosing dual wielding to be the easiest choice ever. If they had jacked up the damage to two handers to bring them close to dualwielding then you'd still have the huge disparity between spell damage and melee. I'd like it if they made two handers better for high strength by doubling the strength bonus or something like that to have a clearer distinction between the weapons but we'll have to see what they do in the end.

For better penetration you have stillettos, estoc and warhammers. Stillettos 11 average damage, 0.5 attack and 3 second recovery for 3.14 dps with shield, 3.89 dps single wield and 4.23 dps dual wielded. All with 7 penetration and piercing Warhammers 12 average damage, 0.7 attack and 4 second recovery for 2.55 dps with shield, 2.81 dps single wield and 3.43 dps dual wielded. All with 7 penetration and crush/pierce Estocs,morningstars and polax, 18.5 average damage, 0.7 attack and 4 second recovery for 3.93 dps with estocs at 9 penetration and pierce or Morningstar/polax at 7 penetration and crush/pierce or slash/crush. Damage ranked is: dual wield stillettos 4.23 dps Estoc/Morningstar/polax 3.93 dps stiletto single wield 3.89 dps dual wield Warhammer 3.43 dps stiletto with shield 3.14 dps Warhammer single wield 2.81 dps Warhammer with shield 2.55 dps Conclusion: Warhammers are bad, maces are even worse as they hit just as badly as a Warhammer but only one damage type

Yes, the +5 accuracy is converted to +10% damage and the +12 accuracy is converted to +24% damage. Its not a perfect system but it'll get you a rough comparison. With lots of additional damage adders from Strength and weapon quality and such the Sabre will drop a bit and the extra accuracy will get better, especially when you consider that the hard enemies will be the ones where more accuracy will be important.

I'd agree that balance wise everything is pretty close, dual wielding is still best but not by the huge margin it had before. Choosing dual wield, two handed or single wield will all give roughly comparable damage outputs. Fighter ability wise two weapon fighting is still good at +20% attack speed, and two handed style gets you +15% damage. The weapon and shield still gets you the +6 deflection and the big boost to reflex. Single weapon style is still a joke of a trap pick as converting a 20% of misses to grazes ends up adding 2.5% damage on average which is a bad joke.

UPDATED FOR LATEST BETA PATCH With the new changes to weapons how do they compare? Two handed 0.7 attack and 3.0 second recovery ​4.0 second recovery Tier one damage 22 - 27, avg = 24.5 ​SAME AS BEFOREGreat Swords - dual damage Pikes - increased reach Tier two damage 20 - 25, avg = 22.5 (8.1% less than tier one) SAME AS BEFOREQuarterstaffs - increased reach and +5 accuracy Tier three damage 15 - 22, avg = 18.5 (24.5% less damage than tier one) ​SAME AS BEFOREPoleax - dual damage and +2 penetration Morningstar - dual damage and +2 penetration Estoc - +2 penetration and +2 penetration (+4 total) - Observation is that the tier three damage class weapons should actually be in the tier two class as they all have two extra abilities. ​One handed slow 0.7 attack, 3.0 second recovery​ 4.0 second recovery Tier one damage 15 - 20, avg = 17.5 SAME AS BEFORESword - dual damage Battle Axe - +20% critical damage Tier two damage 14 - 19, avg = 16.5 (5.7% less than tier one) SAME AS BEFORESabre - +20% damage Tier three damage 14 - 18, avg =16 (8.6% less than tier one) SAME AS BEFORESpear - +5 accuracy Tier four damage 10 -14, avg = 12 (31.4% less than tier one) SAME AS BEFOREmace - +2 penetration Warhammer - dual damage and +2 penetration ​- Observation is that Sabre, Spear, Sword and Mace should all do the same damage as they all have one ability. Warhammers should do one tier less due to having two abilities. ​One handed fast 0.5 attack and 2.0 second recovery ​3.0 second recovery Tier one damage 11 - 15, avg = 13 SAME AS BEFOREClubs - +5 accuracy Daggers - +5 accuracy Rapier - +5 accuracy Hatchet - +3 deflection Tier two damage 10 - 13, avg = 11.5 (11.5% less than tier one) SAME AS BEFOREflail - 10% graze > hit Tier three damage 9 - 13, avg = 11 (15.4% less than tier one) SAME AS BEFOREstiletto +2 penetration ​Observation - flails should be in tier one damage class, and 10% graze>hit is like an extra 1.25% damage so its pitiful. Stilettos should also be in tier one damage as they only have one ability. ​Damage per Second ​​Two handed tier one does 6.62 dps ​5.21 dps and 5.27 dps Quarterstaffs One handed w/shield tier one does 4.73 dps ( 4.76 spear) ​3.72 dps and 3.74 dps Spears Sabres w/shield do 5.35 dps ​4.21 dps One handed fast w/shield tier one does 5.2 dps (5.72 accurate) ​3.71 dps and 3.86 dps accurate dualwielding slow tier one does 7.95 dps (8.0 spear)​ 5.0 dps and 5.02 spears dualwielding Sabres do 9 dps ​5.66 dps dualwielding fast tier one does 8.67 dps (9.54 accurate) ​5.00 dps and 5.50 dps accurate Single weapon slow tier one does 5.86 dps (5.79 spear) ​4.62 dps and 4.56 Spears Single weapon fast tier one does 6.45 dps (6.97 accurate) ​ ​4.61 dps and 4.98 dps accurate Single weapon Sabre does 6.63 dps ​5.22 dps *Single weapon style based on +12 accuracy with acc=deflection, 25% graze and 50% hit. So it effectively trades 12 misses for 12 crits at 125% damage for +24% average damage. ** accurate weapons effectively add 5 misses>crits at 125% damage so effectively +10% damage DPS in ranked order Dualwielding accurate fast weapons 9.54 dps Dualwielding Sabres 9 dps Dualwielding fast weapons 8.67 dps Dualwielding spears 8.0 dps Dualwielding slow 7.95 dps Single wielding fast accurate 6.97 dps Single wielding Sabre 6.63 dps Two handed weapons 6.62 dps Single wielding fast 6.45 dps Single wielding slow 5.86 dps Single wielding spear 5.79 dps Fast accurate with shield 5.72 dps Sabre with shield 5.35 dps Fast with shield 5.2 dps Spear with shield 4.76 dps Slow with shield 4.73 dps DPS in Ranked Order After latest Beta Patch 2/2/18 Dualwielding Sabres 5.66 DPS Dualwielding Fast Accurate (Daggers, Clubs, Rapiers) 5.50 DPS Quarterstaffs 5.27 DPS Single wield Sabre 5.22 DPS Two Handed Sword/Pike 5.22 DPS Dualwielding Spears 5.02 DPS Dualwielding Swords/Battle Ax 5.0 DPS Dualwield Hatchets 5.0 DPS Single wield accurate (clubs, daggers, rapiers) 4.98 dps Single wield sword/battle ax 4.62 dps Single wield hatchet 4.61 dps Single wield spear 4.56 dps Sabre with shield 4.21 dps One hand fast accurate (club, dagger, rapier) with shield 3.86 dps Spear with shield 3.74 dps sword/battleax with shield 3.72 dps hatchet with shield 3.71 dps Conclusion - Two handed weapons still lag behind everything else unless you are getting close to zero recovery Fast accurate weapons are the damage kings for autoattacking Sabres are still the best choice if you also need primary or especially full attacks Two handed weapons are much better now ​Sabres are damage kings Dualwielding still tops but much closer to two handed ​Shield cost you between 25-35% damage output Warhammers and maces are bad damage choices, better to use stillettos with the same penetration Flails are another really bad damage output

Just like in the previous two Beta versions, your unarmed damage gets set back to normal peoples damage instead of the buffed up monk damage you should have and did have before the save/load. Prior to a save/load the unarmed damage was similar to what slow one handers did but at the fast weapon speed. This would make fist fighting for monks the best dps in the game. Unfortunately if you save and then load all that damage goes away and unarmed fighting becomes worthless.

yes, there is not a unarmed proficiency. Also Devoted now grant +2 penetration. Two weapon fighting is now +30% base speed instead of +50% and fighter adds +20% with their two weapon style. Weapon recovery times have also been changed

Newest patch. Rolled a shattered pillar/devoted. Devoted now get only one weapon proficiency which is great but they get the devoted penalty applied to unarmed attacks with no way to remedy as fists can not be a proficiency choice. Intended behavior or bug?

I'm with you on that. I just hope it doesn't end up like Dragon Age, Origins was a great game with good mechanics and then DA2 was changed to ...... something else

A Mage Slayer really should procc with more than just melee, ranged weapons at least. *I'm hoping* Yeah being able to open combat with dual pistols or the like to get a hit on any out of range magic user would be nice. It did feel wrong to have my character not use pistols in a high seas setting. Also looking at things Sabre/War Hammer actually looks to be the better combo than Hatchet/War Hammer, I lose out on +3 deflection by dropping the Hatchet, but my dmg output is a lot stronger with the Sabre. If you are looking for damage you should go with dual wielding fast accurate weapons like daggers, clubs or rapiers. A weapon switch to stillettos will handle penetration issues without much loss in dps. War hammers look cool but their damage is really low.

If you have a weapon on switch that has a different damage type and the accuracy ability then you're only down by -4 accuracy which is hardly earth shattering. You can use clubs, quarterstaffs, spears, daggers, or rapiers; they all have an inherent +6 accuracy.

DeadFire party tonight! DeadFire party tonight! DeadFire party tonight! We're going to have a DeadFire Party tonight!! All right!! We've got nothing better to do, then play DeadFire and have a couple a brew!!!

They do have grenades which would do the same thing but without requiring a long reload.

How would you scale Carnage via power levels? As Carnage is probably one of the worst offenders when it comes to power spiking from multiclassing I'd be curious as to how you'd adjust that. I agree that something should be done but balancing all the possible permutations is going to be a real pain.

That would be balance breaking. Revolvers are always overpowered in games... the only difference would be magazine clip but even then causing unbalance. There is no such thing as a 'magazine clip'. There are magazines which are what AK47, AR15, Glock pistols, and other weapons use. And then there are clips like what the Garand battle rifle from WW2 used.

With 20 Resolve that's 30% damage that should stack multiplicatively with other bonuses (like Lightning Strikes, Assassinate...). So 10 resolve assassinate = x2 damage, 20 resolve assassinate (for example with Ectopsychic Echo from smoke veil) = x2.6 damage.... But where are you going to get the stat points for your 20 Resolve? The 16 strength my guy has will multiply the damage boost from biting whip, weapon quality and anything else. Resolve has few damage multipliers because spells have few. Lightning Strikes and Assassinate both require specific multi-classes, for a majority of builds there will be nothing for resolve to multiply. Plus since you need damage to get focus in the first place, I think that Strength will be a better choice than Resolve. Dexterity helps with attack speed and casting speed so its a good pick and Intellect makes everything last longer and have a bigger area. I don't like the stat changes to Strength from Might but in the end it'll just end up being a small damage nerf to casting and healing as I'll just leave Resolve at 10. My multi-classed Soul Blades spent most of their picks in the other class anyway as many of the Cipher powers were too slow to be worth a pick.

Your probably going to be making pretty stat balanced Ciphers. Str 16 Con 10 Dex 16 Per 10 Int 16 Res 10 Something like that and skip the damaging powers and just use crowd control and soul annihilation. Or just realize that you're only missing out on +18% damage which doesn't really matter that much.

The game market has changed a lot in the intervening years. A lot of people have come to expect full voice acting from big RPGs, and are turned off when its not there. Part of it is the fact that a lot of people who play RPGs now have grown up in the interval between the IE games and now, the fact that RPGs have become more mainstream (for both good and ill), and that full voice acting has become the mainstream norm. So no, I don't think that is a given. But PoE and DeadFire are not mainstream big RPGs. They're a niche market. They're never going to get the Skyrim market and trying to will just ruin the game. Let Skyrim and Fallout chase the market down to the lowest common denominator of the semi-literate couch surfing consoler, let PoE serve the discerning gamer that appreciates the details. Sort of like the difference between people who like Laphroig single malt scotch compared to Pabst Blue Ribbon. DeadFire will be a critically acclaimed success by having a great story, great choices with consequences, great tactical gameplay and great game mechanics. Full or partial Voice acting is not going to make or break the game and since full voice acting is not without both cost and design implications, I vote for partial voice acting and spend the resources elsewhere.

I found that once a Paladin got their AoE fire aura that also healed (can't remember the name) they did pretty good damage. Their Lay on hands was one of the best heals and their auras were always appreciated by their team. Sure they weren't 'God-mode Gandalph' like wizards and the vancians were but I would not use the word 'suck' to describe them. Now Rogues were pretty trash. In DeadFire I'd say that Paladins are the strongest class to use in a multiclass and would be a top tier single class as well.

early scheduled streams had corresponding threads on this board with folks posting queries they wanted obsidian to address during twitch streams. am not actual certain what were the obsidian standard for responding to such questions; "well thought out queries" is an elastic standard. additional, recent twitch streams were announced mere hours before the actual event, so... or the developers could turn back the clock/calendar a couple years and return to the reality in which developers actual respond to posts submitted on Obsidian forums. developer posts at something awful or reddit instead of replying to fans at obsidian's boards is only mildly insulting to the most dedicated fan segment who has been posting here for years. not every fan is a hardcore follower o' the pillars franchise. is reasonable for the developers to respond to both casual and hardcore fans during twitch streams. am not expecting twitch formats to change overmuch. however, is equal reasonable to have obsidian developers respond to a few obsidian board questions by posting responses on the obsidian boards. wacky solution? HA! Good Fun! I agree. I've been spoiled by how the devs over at HareBrained Studios handle the feedback and interaction on Battletech. Commenting on forum posts, collecting questions prior to scheduled streaming events.