Tomice

The above thread was made before I was sure this can be considered a bug. I didn't know about the missing attribute points yet. Plus I wanted to check that I haven't missed something about her skills. Thanks for pointing this out. I don't like to have self-mutilating party members, so I didn't take him. Oh, and while we're at it: Pallegina's paladin order doesn't have an unique ability (like "Fires of Darcozzi Palace")

I prefer having some mechanics on multiple characters. My party walks in formation, and if the mechanics expert is not a frontliner, you seem to miss quite a few secrets because your backrow never enters some corners (of course you could manually send the mechanics guy ahead, but i tend to forget this)

1) Devil of Caroc has 2 attribute points less than all other companions (probably from not having a racial bonus) 2) Her racial trait "Living Machine" is more disadvantage than advantage, while all others are purely beneficial. 3) Can't switch armor, is stuck with a variant of breast plate (without any unique trait or advantage,) is therefore stuck with unenchanted armor when most of your other companions already wear uniques at that point. Not talking about the lack of flexibility. I know #3 is by design, but all summed up her disadvantages far outweigh her advantages. Her special race is not all balanced towards the others. The missing attribute points indicate that this is not by design, but at least partially a bug. Suggestion: Make her armor 0% recovery in the next patch. It fits with her "living machine" trait and would compensate for her armor-related drawbacks. It would be a very quick fix (changing a value for a single item, maybe change the the text for her unique trait). There's no unexpected consequences or balance issues (she would only be a bit quicker in her actions, nothing out of the ordinary) If you think 0% is too much, remember that other armors have "second chance" and other useful, unique traits. Also remember that her current racial trait cancels itself out (having at least as much negative as positive effects) - meaning that she actually has no racial advantage right now !!! The resulting extra attack speed would have to compensate for both the lacking unique racial trait as well as the lacking unique armor trait.

Of course one can finish the game even with bad chars on lower difficulties (maybe even POTD if you play really well). This doesn't change that her "race" is the only one that consists only of weaknesses. EDIT: She even has two stat points less than all other companions (those two you get for your race)! Gonna post this to the bug forum.

Aloth is the backbone of my party even before level 9 (per encounter spells!), a wizard as main could perform even better. Wizards are definitively one of the best classes in 2.01 (though ciphers are still good, as are priests). I have all three in my party, and I believe I could make do more easily without my minmaxed cipher mainchar then without Aloth!

It's not about min/maxing, that's why I didn't mention her attributes. It's more about missed opportunity, lack of thought by the devs and the ingame implementation not living up to the amazing concept.

TLDR summary: Even when not looking at the attributes (which we can't change for any voiced companion and which might be good or bad), the devil is worse than any other companion considering gameplay. Pros & Cons for the devil: - can't switch armor, is stuck with a variant of breast plate (without any unique trait or advantage) - is therefore stuck with unenchanted armor when most of your other companions already wear uniques at that point - can't use food, drinks or drugs (potions work) + Immune to disease and poison That's it. The minimal, situational advantage of poison/disease resistance replaces the far more useful racial traits of other companions. Yet we still have to live with all the disadvantages. There are no extra attribute points, no other unique traits, no special skill. Considering all the downsides, I would at least have expected her to be free of armor recovery penalty (zero development time!). She would have offered so many opportunities for unique gameplay, but there's nothing. Her story is cool, but her gameplay is very disapponting. Suggestion: Make her armor 0% recovery in the next patch. It fits with her "living machine" trait and would compensate for her armor-related drawbacks. It would be a very quick fix (changing a value for a single item, maybe change the the text for her unique trait). There's no unexpected consequences or balance issues (she would only be a bit quicker in her actions, nothing out of the ordinary) If you think 0% is too much, remember that other armors have "second chance" and other useful, unique traits. Also remember that her current racial trait cancels itself out (having at least as much negative as positive effects) - meaning that she actually has no racial advantage right now !!! The resulting extra attack speed would have to compensate for both the lacking unique racial trait as well as the lacking unique armor trait. EDIT: She even has two stat points less than all other companions (those two you get for your race)!!!

Thank you for the elaborate answers! A related question: Is there any reason for a ranged specialist to switch to melee weapons if he is forced into melee? Assuming he has similar-quality melee weapons in the other slot and doesn't have talents that are specialized towards a certain weapon group?

Not talking about unique weapons here, but about general weapon types. What are recommended melee weapons and which should be avoided? There are some weapons for special roles I'll immediately exclude for obvious reasons: - Hatchets are for those only seeking deflection and not really trying to damage anything - Quarterstaffs & Pikes have reach, creating a "second line" between your tanks and your ranged chars - hard to compare to first line tanks. I guess that pierce damage is less than ideal, considering all bows, xbows and guns have this damage? So I should take slash or crush on my frontliners to avoid being unable to damage certain enemies properly? Is it true that crush damage is less resisted than slash? What's the difference between weapons with DR (mace, estoc), more raw damage (saber), dual damage types (sword, great sword, war hammer, pollaxe) and accurate weapons (rapier, dagger, club, spear)? DR is obvious, but the others also result in more damage, possibly exceeding the DR effect? Personally, I find maces very attractive (crush is less commonly resisted and the extra DR gives some reliable damage output). War hammers look good, too, providing both damage types your ranged chars can't deliver.

It is great for the tough fights were every shot counts. But in routine encounters with trash mobs - were you aren't as focused - it nearly got me killed 2 or 3 times until I got used to it! Your ranged chars start shooting and become visible, while your melee tanks are still stealthy. This means a lot of enemy projectiles hit your back row before your tanks actually enter the fight. Plus some of the enemies migh end up behind your tanks! It's easy to work around, though. I played with formations a bit and now position my tanks manually, making fights more interesting.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=416939844 Here's the link for the written version. He seems to do the vids first, but for some classes he already updated his guide.

The forum isn't the best place to get a basic understanding for the game, that's true. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4UqltmSKaEeCbgMY7nx2U0kngJ77wwhX Check out this guys videos for some basic and class guides. He also has an awesome written guide on steam (several builds per class in one guide!), but it's currently being rewritten, so it's a confusing mix of 1.6 and 2.0 now. With the vids, you can be sure that they are up to date.

Thank you for the quick fixes! Is this an issue already in 2.0 or is it introduced through 2.01 beta?

You can add all pre-created companions (those with backstory) and 8 self-created characters to your pool. From this pool, you can take 5 with you, the others will wait at the stronghold or the inn in Gilded Vale.

I have given the charm talent to several characters in my party, and consider it borderline OP. It's amazing if enemies overflow past your first-line tanks (which is often the first step towards game over). It also helps a lot if you tanks can bind the enemy numbers, but can't survive the heavy hits long enough. The talent also scales well with level and difficulty.

Also: Do you wanna play with the precreated companions (Eder, Sagani, ...) or a custom party? If you've already beaten the game on normal, you know when each companion is available. The expansion adds a monk and a thief. There is no barbarian companion yet, so if you want one, you need to create one. Your second character should probably fill a gap your preferred party has. If you don't know how to choose classes for a strong party composition, there were a few rules pre 2.0. As example, the awesome steam guide by nerdcommando suggested the following: 2 frontline tanks, 2 sturdy second-line melee DPS with high-reach melee weapons and 2 squishy ranged DPS. Many people consider a priest essential. You also shouldn't forget about reliable physical damage in addition to spells (ranger, rogue). The problem is that most precreated companions were biased towards 3rd line ranged damage or spells, there was a lack of melee-capable chars in the base game. The expansion might have changed that. Overall, I suggest creating 2 lists: - the precreated companions I like enough to have in my party - the classes/roles I wanna have in my party Then create characters for roles you still need.

Balance in a single player game is very important. If 80% of the cool-sounding skills don't work in practical gameplay and you're stuck using the same few cheesy talents over and over again on higher difficulties, then something is wrong - even in single player. Other examples for single-player balance issues: - If your mage is so powerful and essential that you feel like you almost don't have to control the rest of your party. - If simple-to use-spells are so powerful that you don't feel the need to use the more complex ones. - If rogues are powerful in theory, but so squishy that they die before doing much damage. - If you feel that certain classes don't contribute anything meaningful to your party.

For my current playthrough I dropped CON and PER booth to 6, only semi-dumping them. RES isn't lower because I feel bad lowering my concentration too much. I'll try to maintain survivability by using some of the new crossclass talents. The skeleton summon seems like a good emergy meatshield boneshield. Plus everyone can learn to charm once per encounter now! What a great way to disable foes who pass your frontline tanks! Wonder when they'll nerf this.

@ KDubya & Nobear: Thank you for the great input. Warbow ciphers indeed seem to have one talent to spare by not needing penetrating shot or gunner. The weapon choice also depends on difficulty IMHO. If you face mostly lightly armored targets, you don't need the enormous burst damage of guns. You'll also "overkill" a lot with guns on hard difficulty and below (wasting your rare, precious shot on an enemy that would have died from a weaker attack as well). But in this topic, I'm more interested in the new talents. Anyone already used them to great effect?

This talent can be used each encounter without costing any ressource and after only 5 sec. If it hits, it basically takes out one enemy out of the equation. He might not do much damge while charmed, but he'll take a ton of hits from his friends while his defences are weakened! Considering we can have this 6 times per encounter (once per party member) - isn't that a bit too good?

Congratulations! The last days seemed odd when you are used to huge release hypes, but it's the product that's important, not the hype ;-) Nice trailer!

Since there are a number of new and interesting cross-class talents, let's check them out in comparison to the old ones. Input is VERY welcome, I'm still a beginner myself. I'm assuming a warbow-using ranged cipher on hard difficulty, but this thread should not be limited to this build alone. Greater Focus: Awesome at the beginning - this doubles your starting focus at level 2 (10->20), allowing you to cast 2 powers before using your bow (or starting the fight with a stronger power). Later on, 10 focus mean less and you'll have enough of it to start the fight with a few powers anyway. Nevertheless, goog first talent in my books (and you can kick it later by reskilling, if you want). Biting Whip: 20% extra damage that practically always apply, increase your focus gain and help you breaking through high DR with fast weapons? Obviously good, although starting the fight with an extra cast might even be better. Draining whip: I don't know the math enough to compare this to biting whip, but more damage AND more focus seems more versatile and reliable than more focus only. Rhymers summon: Summons 2 skeletons, 15 sec have to have passed since the start of combat, 1 per encounter Perhaps the most interesting new talent! Admittedly, the skeletons have 26 endurance (no level scaling) and have pitiful damage (can't kill the two wolfs in the tutorial). And waiting 15 sec is quite long. But the range is good, making it easy to cast them behind your enemies for some ectopsychic echo madness. They might be even more useful as "emergency button" when our squishy ranged cipher is approached in melee after our first line tanks are overrun (ciphers lack any natural defensive abilities). Apprentice sneak attack: Extra damage to debuffed enemies +15% damage seems a lot, and ciphers should be able to keep enemies debuffed. But it's a lot weaker than the more reliable Biting Whip. Penetrating shot: Another damage enhancer, hard to compare to sneak attack. Note that sneak atatck has no penalty (apart from not being applied to un-debuffed targets), while 20% speed penalty is nothing to take lightly. Gallant's focus: Aura/modal that gives +4 accuracy in a 2.5m radius Most likely the most interesting accuracy enhancer. 4 accuracy might not seem that much and the aura only has a 2.5m base radius. But it applies to any weapon (and most likely spells!), making the weapon focus talents lose appeal in comparison (only a few weapons, no spells, only one character). Also note that ciphers usually have enough INT to increase the aura size and don't have any modal to choose from anyway. You also don't have to be far away like with the marksman talent. It has no built-in disadvantage. And if you really want accuracy, you can even stack all of those. Fast Runner: Positioning is very important for a cipher, probably worth a thought. Well, I think these are the most important ones (For gun-users the gunner talent is worth considering, of course) The other new ones seem more suited for tanks or give you per-rest abilities that pale to the ciphers awesome per-encounter abilities - no sense in that. There also doesn't seem to be any talent apart from Rhymer's summon that hekps the cipher survive a melee encounter (and even with this ony you need to cast the skeletons timely, before being locked in melee engagement). As I said, feedback is very welcome!

Now that each party member could theoretically summon 2 skeletons (using the "mini-chanter" cross-class talent): Is there a limit on summons? Either per char or per party? That's 12 skeletons + summons from items + normal chanter summons!

Nice! What's her armor class? Any speed penalty?

I was able to buy the expansion already, downloading now! (Steam)