Tomice

Looking forward to hearing hear intro dialogue! She sure looks very interesting.

Her body slot is surely unavailable for conventional armor. Capes, boots, gloves and especially helmets don't make much sense, either. I could imagine rings and amulettes being allowed, though.

One important thing to consider: Patches for the steam version of POE were usually available a few days earlier than than for GOG. The first few weeks after release were really annoying for GOG users, having to wait a few extra days each time a patch came out (beta patches on steam even increase this gap). Apart from that, I really prefer to support GOG and their owner, CD Project Red (Witcher!). Helping them become a true competitor to Steam and Origin will keep those big players from establishing overly restrictive DRM policies and other annoyances. CDPR are believably fighting against this, they started as a semi-legal importing company for games back in the day when games weren't officially sold in eastern Europe. Not that I ever had an issue with steam, quite the contrary.

It still is, though the situation is very similar for other squishy 3rd line chars. The change from 3 offensive and 3 defensive attributes towards 4 off 2 def makes all previous build recommendations moot.

Edit: I realize that walls of text can be hard to take in all at once, which is why I kept this post shorter. I don't mean to be short or discourage your questions. Everyone starts new, and I hope you enjoy the game. I actually read your post in detail, thank you for taking the time! It's just that I was hoping for a few more opinions from others on this specific topic. Dropping CON feels more easy to me because I can grasp the effect quite well. -35% hit points means that I can take approx. 35% less hits - it's pretty straightforward. CON is also rarely used in dialogues/cutscenes, so again, nothing to worry about. Dropping RES has more complex consequences, however. 7 points of deflection can't be directy converted into a number of additional hits, and the value of concentration is even harder to judge. It's also the most important dialogue stat (which only matters if one raises it above 10, though) Dropping CON also has the advantage that I can simulate CON on the fly through armor/DR if I realize that I die to often. Deflection (or Concentration) isn't as easy to come by (especially for ranged chars without shield). Sure, armor lowers my speed, but only for recovery, not for casting, attack or reload. Taking 20 DEX and some light armor seems especially interesting for Ciphers with reload-needing ranged weapons. AFAIK, an assumed 20% additional recovery time actually only increases the total time between spells by 10% (spells and their recovery time are equally long). For bows, it's 13.3% (the recovery time for 2handed weapons is twice the attack time). For guns, the reload time is the longest part of the animation, making a recovery time penalty even less important. On average, you'll need 5 DEX to negate the speed penalty of leather armor (30% recovery). This doesn't mean that I wouldn't agree to you, especially considering that deflection only helps against direct, conventional attacks while CON helps against any kind of damage. It's just that it's a tough choice anyway.

This is a game that encourages us to create extremely squishy ranged chars usually well-protected behind two tanky melee grunts. It works well usually if there are no shades around, but we all know those "oh ****" moments wenn we see our back row exposed. Since these occasions are usually rare, it doesn't seem effective to leave a few points in RES or CON just for the sake of better survivability (those few points won't usually save you anyway). But I learned to love "second chance items". It seems that they have enough of a delay to make our former attackers pass on. Any other tips on class-independent items that help you get away in such situations? Consumables?

The main question that remains: Would you rather drop RES or CON? Or both? How important is Concentration?

Melee or ranged? ...... Well, to sum it up, I'm looking for a good build for a ranged cipher on hard with a full party - in 2.0. I prefer bows over firearms flavorwise, but I'm willing to consider any weapon. I also care about having a main char who's good in talking, so the stats should allow some of the better dialogue choices. I guess wood elf is the best race for this? DEX seems like the most important stat. But I'm very undecided between MIG, DEX and PER for offense. And I'm totally clueless how to assure enough survivabiliy.

Party on hard. For several reasons, I never finished the game so far, despite all kind memories of Baldurs Gate and the original Dragon Age (hoping for 2.0. to fix a few things). So I'm a relative noob.

For me too! But if you check the bug forum you'll see that they already fixed it in their internal, not yet released build.

Right, didn't think this through. Dex will be close to max for many Ciphers, so no way to transfer points there. In general, playing 2.0 beta now, it seems that one needs more defensive stats than before. I remember Eder being less squishy, my 2nd and third line are in melee more often. But I still think that points in CON aren't a very efficient way to boost survivability. Any better ideas? Armor we mendtioned already, what about RES? Ciphers really don't have much in term of escape skills...

Most guides seem to recommend playing a cipher without armor, but leaving a few points in constitution for survivability. I don't get it - for each point of CON dropped, I can take some DEX, reducing the speed penalty of armor. Isn't it more effective and flexible to drop CON completely and rely on some DR from armor instead? Example: Base endurance for a level 1 cipher is 48. Let's say I drop CON to 3, that's a penalty of 21% (in 1.05), meaning 38 endurance. Increasing CON by those same 21% would result in 58 endurance. The difference between max and min CON doesn't seem that much considering that even wearing Eder's starting scale mail gives 7 DR plus second chance, an effect that is tremendously useful (and AFAIK can't be put on self-enchanted clothing). The 35% recovery speed penalty can easily be overcome with some points in dex (as they give an overall speed bonus, which is worth more than the same percentage in isolated recovery speed). This might look difference for classes that get more endurance per level, of course. And it will change quite a bit in 2.0 with the CON buff, but I doubt it will make much of a difference.

Anyone checked the new build yet? Is this change still inside?

The beta branch has been updated with the latest build. This should fix some of the issues that were being reported due to the new build. Great news!

Here's my first serious attempt in creating a new char in 2.0, a female elven cipher with a bow (*) Thoughts: Intelligence is still very important and probably should be maxed in most cases. Perception seems the second most important, to reliably hit enemies with your CC spells and to generate focus reliably. Dexterity trumps might because it speeds up all actions, reducing the delay between initial focus building and spell casting. Resolve still seems more important than constitution. Your overall durability will be very low anyway, a few more hit points won't change that much. I dropped CON to 3 before and will probably keep doing so. It worked well before, since few enemies attack your ranged chars anyway. And you can keep a few aces up your sleeve in terms of scrolls and items for those tight moments. The higher CON penalty is offset by the increase in cipher and mage HP in 1.05, BTW. My build suggestion: MIG 14 DEX 16 PER 16 INT 19 CON 3 RES 10 This may not be strictly optimal, but shifting a few points from PER to DEX and MIG gives you more dialogue options and makes the char look more natural. I consider her a noble city girl from Old Vailia, not being used to getting hit/enduring pain, avoiding melee, not being overly brutal and deadly, but both mentally and physically agile. She's basically immune to AOE effects and will attacks, but very weak against fortitude- and deflection-based attacks. Not being in melee makes this a lot more sufferable, however. Not sure if shifting points from MIG to RES would be better? I'd like to, for immersion reasons, but I guess it would make the char significantly weaker. Suggestions welcome! Opinion: I like the new perception a lot, this char is way more believable than in 1.03 with maxed might (She is neither supposed to be physically strong nor mentally brutal/intimidating). High INT and PER also fit a group leader very well, improving the immersion in dialogues (IMHO). One thing I just realized is that we'll never really get rid of dump stats in this game - simple because there's no minimum requiremets or sweet spots in this game. In BG, you needed a bit of strenght to carry heavier items. There were also points where dropping a stat further had really bad consequences and harsh penalties, while it's way more linear here. (*) This was my overall favorite character since release because a cipher fits the story so well - cipher and watcher are more or less the same thing. Haven't played any since the recent nerf, though. She is female because there are no romances anyway and imagining a little crush makes it more easy for me to believe that Aloth and Eder follow her into hell's pits without even knowing her.

In 1.X, steath was practically useless. You could scout pretty well without investing in stealth, and once combat started stealth was broken for all party members anyway. Now in 2.0, do you have any tipps which characters should invest in stealth? Who profits, who doesn't? How can it be used to maximum effect?

It almost seems that they want to keep us from creating pure tanks anymore. Which might be a good thing, I never felt so inclined to create characters without any offensive ability in BG oder Dragon Age Origins.

I'm still can't determine how PER compares to INT regarding damage increase? Does anyone have some good calculations/examples? (for the sake of balance, I hope it's worse, since PER affects non-damage actions, too!)

My thoughts: If we want to create a pure tank, we can still dump almost all points in CON+RES. The new system again doesn't encourage tank build variety - I had initially hoped that some spare points would now have to go to offensive attributes. As it is now, tanks should still take RES first. PER got a bit less interesting and CON a bit more. Tanks still never should take MIG or INT, and PER will always trump DEX. DPS chars now have to choose more carefully. MIG, DEX, INT and PER now all increase damage in certain way, and we can't max them all. PER is a good choice for creating DPS chars without maxed MIG (great if you want to roleplay nimble, diminutive characters that shouldn't push over walls in scripted events). For crowd control and debuffing, PER will probably be key alongside INT. Questions to answer: Is there any viable build with low PER now? WIll CON be an option now for any char apart from pure tanks? Is MIG still good enough for anyone besides pure DPS? Won't we drop it on any char that sometimes casts spells without damage? Don't get me wrong, the changes improve a lot, but IMO we're still far away from having a real choice. Tanks should still max RES, PER and CON and dump all else. DPS and CC should max PER now, CON should still be kept low. Between the other four it's an interesting choice now.

Hi! I decided to post this as overview for those not having access to the beta. It is one of the more important changes IMHO, and deserves some extra attention. I know there is a thread about the perception change, but it was created before the beta and contains quite a bit of speculation. Besides, constitution has been buffed, too. Looking at this, we see the following: - Perception is a way more offensive stat now, trading it's former deflection bonus for accuracy. - Constitution got buffed from 3% to 5% HP per point - We now have 4 clearly offensive stats instead of 3 before

This is all happening surprisingly fast. I didn't think the expansion would be out before fall. Great news!

Right, saw it here, too: http://www.gameswelt.at/pillars-of-eternity/news/erste-erweiterung-erhaelt-termin,243315 Nice, thought it would take them longer given how quiet it got during the last weeks.

I'm one of those who fully agree with Matiati (and many others here). Actually, I find the attribute system in this game to be its possibly biggest flaw. The attribute scores are what translates the inner image I have of my character into something the game understands. It's therefore essential that the attributes available in the game correspond well with typical attributes real people have. Some of the typical attribute pairs we use when describing people: 1) dextrous or clumsy 2) lively or stoic 3) arduous or easily giving up 4) observant or inattentive 5) intelligent or dumb 6) delicate or bulky 7) attractive or ugly talkative or introverted There is exactly no way to translate 6-8 into something that is reflected in the game. I can't make the game recognize that my female orlan mage is of very petite build, can hardly lift a brick, but kicks ass with fireballs. In the very first dungeon my immersion is broken when she can easily push a wall over. If they wanna imply that might isn't strenght, then they shouldn't use it in skripted interactions. 1-5 are a bit better, but still too limited in their scope and unimmersive. Dexterity doesn't help with traps at all. The arm lenght of barbarians directly correlates with their ability to solve complex puzzles. Being perceptive is totally pointless for detecting traps. Might is by far the biggest offender here. Not being able to use the attributes to play the role I've chosen turns them into blank numbers free to be min-maxed for gameplay success. I might be able to play a low-"strenght" high dex fighter. But this doesn't cause much satisfaction if noone and nothing in the game responds to my choice and let's me feel like I've done something cool and special. I don't unlock new weapons. I'm not forbidden to wear plate. My ability selection is still that of a tank. There is also the terrible Tank-DPS duality. You are not punished in any way if you stricly focus a char on one of the two extremes. In fact, the game even encourages it. There is no rule that lets strictly optimized tanks still have some offensive capability. Most abilities might have both offensive and defensive effects on paper, but dropping a stat to 3 often doesn't giveyou any disadvantage you care about. This results in practically all armors between plate and clothing being pointless. This results in all attribute scores between dump and maxed to be worse choices than the extremes. Again, the implementation of "might" is the biggest problem. If you don't put points in it, you might as well stop doing any offensive action at all. Other games have more varied damage calculations. Filtering all ways to do damage through a single +/-25% modifier might not have been the smartest choice.

Also to consider: A beta would be kinda pointless if they announced the release date beforehand - why test stuff if you can't react on major flaws? To do it properly, they would have to: Announce the beta Wait 2 weeks for news to spread, hype to build up and for players to be interested in POE again Let the beta run for at least 2 weeks React to strong criticism with a hotfix (at least 1 week development) Wait for players to test the hotfix - 1 week Ideally, see that you achieved a releaseable state Announce the expansion release date, then add another 4 weeks for polish/final work and for hype to build Release after 10 weeks total (ideally, only 1 hotfix necessary) This really leaves me with the question whether I should start my second attempt now or bother waiting..,

Hi! I've started to play POE shortly after the initial release (never heard of it before), but it lost it's appeal soon, mostly due to repetitive fighting - beetles and cultists killed it for me. Not to forget unimmersive stats that encourage minmaxing at the cost of immersion. I would like to give it a new shot now that I've seen the cool new features for the expansion / 2.0 patch. But I've only read "soon" regarding the release date. Do you guys have any insight what this could mean? How early did they announce stuff back in the beta? I'm concerned that it might take quite a while still. They said there might be a beta before release, which also isn't announced yet and will probably last at least 3 weeks. And I guess they will announce the release at least a month before, for some hype to build up and to allow for some advertising. Anyone thinking it could be available before September? Is even that realistic?