Knights&Darths

Yeah but, I won't have this coming to yet another Kae/Kreia debate so I'll just say Mical never mentions Kreia, the queen masks her presence and mind tricks the little Jedi nerd so, he's really talking about Master Kae using the very same words Kreia uses as to why Revan came back to her, before leaving known space. Here I just wanted to collect quotes stating the approximate order of appearance of all the masters.

Indeed! [HK-47 has given you a greater understanding of the Mandalorian Wars - and the Jedi, resulting in an experience bonus, a Wisdom bonus, and a Force point bonus.] [You use these techniques against enemies and to protect yourself, giving you a bonus to experience, constitution, and Reflex saving throws.] [You and Hanharr have formed a new bond, both of you gaining +1 Constitution.] [by tapping into Hanharr's primal nature, you have gained a permanent +1 Constituion and +2 to Strength.] [You have turned away from power - the true lesson of strength - gaining experience and +2 to Wisdom.]

"Slusk works for Goto, out of Nar Shaddaa. Now this Goto... he's rigid, ruthlessly efficient - and all he sees his numbers."

What elements do we have to say in which order the masters trained Revan? "When I was still on Coruscant Revan and Malak often came to me for additional training."

Right, I forgot that one. Iteresting indeed, this whole thing never occurred to me.

I don't see it, yet even so, we do know both were Revan's final master, who Mical claims to be also the first, and both Kae and Kreia are referenced to have been sought out by Revan before he left known space for the same last knowledge to be imparted. Mentioning Master Kae, Mical says Revan was her padawan and fails to remember any other who came after, implying she was the first to train him.

I kind of stumbled on a couple quotes hinting at Atton being Coorta's smuggler, the one he contacted to get off Peragus. "Well... I may know someone - works this system on special jobs. He may want to know details, but I might be able to arrange transport." "I've seen the logs. I know you've already asked him and given the details - once he agrees, I can handle the rest."

Actually Kreia did tell her her Sith alias though it makes little difference. "These are her robes. I have not worn them since they came into my possession. They are the only thing of her that I possess."

To leave the past behind does not mean forgetting it, she also says it is important to learn from mistakes of the past.

Zayne Carrick wielded a yellow lightsaber, I like yellow.

Sorry to necropost but I saw this pic and remembered how some said Kotor robes don't look like robes a Jedi Master would wear in a High Council meeting on Coruscant, or that their not being in TSL was not to be considered an inconsistency etc

Wookiepedia is about canon only, ours on the other hand are speculations, since the only canon material is that in the game and the chronicles and not much else, I urge you to consider the amazing number of discrepancies before you even think of using that article in this debate. Being a wookiepedian myself I know every speculative argumentation, however relevant, must be and it is presented as such or removed from the article. While those discrepancies are mentioned, as are the most notable speculations if set apart from what is fact, a wiki is always to keep to canon material. That ignores Kreia's words completely, while the chronicles do say that, it seems to me that what is actually said in the game has more worth, wouldn't you say? The whole war was to be a conversion tool, not that I want to sonud self-righteous but I really can't see what is there to debate about that, and it is revealed that Revan learned about those techniques right there on Malachor picking that place as the last stand to break the will of Jedi and turn them to the dark side, which was the quickest way to make them give up the Jedi Code and swear allegiance to him, unifying the galaxy against the greater threat for which the Jedi would have taken no action in their passivity, and for which they weren't strong enough as we can see watching how easily three of the most powerful Jedi Masters in the Order were slain by a single blow from the teachings of the old Sith."Revan knew the power of such places... and the power in making them. They can be used to break the will of others... of Jedi, promising them power, and turning them to the dark side"

I only hope the moderator that is no doubt soon to close this embarassingly off topic 3d will bother moving the discussion to a new one rather than just shut us up. What do you mean Revan was never there? The whole point of that battle was bringing Jedi to Malachor, where they could be easily corrupted. By the time the MSG was activated Revan was out system but that doesn't mean he never set foot on the surface. Whatever the time Kreia is talking about she clearly speaks of Revan's actions on Malachor, that's important, because the only way she could know about them is that she was there to see them and judge them:"You were there at Malachor. Revan's choices were always his own. It was not teaching, or circumstance, or example. It was him."

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I am sorry I don't have the faintest idea what that Jinga means though I have a feeling an explanation would fail to prove worthwhile. No matter

She doesn't, yet it would be only logical if she did.

Is that so? [

I have her creature template right before me, again no such feature as Echani Defense exists, you may be talking about Echani Strike which is something else, that one only allows her to deal more damage and knockdown her opponents.

I don't recall presenting them as facts, read again and you'll find ifs, maybes, perhaps, and more importantly a whatever, it doesn't matter how far can we go with speculations, that as I was trying to point out, is beyond the point. At which you should have concluded that I was dropping the matter in the light of new evidence. No, it goes far beyond the cut content, actually thats got very little involvement. Kreia did fight in the Mandalorian Wars and was thought to be a casualty, ask Master Kavar, I mean he says that loud and clear at the enclave, as clear as Kreia says that - like all the others who fell to the dark side and were lost trace of - she became stronger. Also Kreia says that she knew Arren, not just heard of like everyone would of an exiled Jedi Master with child - remember that exile is a rare sentence - involved in a relationship with probably the most famous of Echani generals, and who was Master to the leader of the Jedi faction marching to war, later to become Darth Revan. But she does, Kreia echoes throughout the galaxy right to Atris'self-righteous white little head the Handmaide's betrayal so that she would know.

I would happily spend hours enunciating why Kreia and Kae are the same person but this is not the right 3d, that coy remark however is known throughout the galaxy. The Handmaiden may be her daughter, if so then Kreia wouldn't want to have her on a dangerous journey, much less want the Exile to bind with her while she planned to either kill the Exile or be killed by him. Then again she wouldn't want her daughter to be exposed to Atris any longer now that she has returned, much less want to leave her on Telos with what was coming to the planet, and indeed she needed the docking codes to get to Atris. So many questions, yet the answers are few. Whatever. I think, all things considered, that alternative course in the dialog I spoke of was part of the remnant of undeveloped dialog that followed the case that the Exile argued with Atris and was told to depart immidiately. I mean: The Exile offers his aid: Atris sends the Handmaiden to travel with the Exile The Exile offers a blaster bolt: the Handmaiden defies Atris and depart with the Exile there is more evidence of this in the dialog after the holorecord, an alternative course in which the Handmaiden says she feels Atris misjudges the Exile for his marching to war, that sometimes one must fight and she's willing to do that too against the wishes of her sisters and against Atris'