Knights&Darths

perhaps, it is interesting to notice though that if the Exile indeed had that conversation with Vash about force bonds half the game would have been screwed up, i'd really like to know how the restoration teams are going to fix that (i kind of remember they intended to spring Vash back to life).

yes, big difference. i don't really understand what it is that went wrong with TSL, i think they had to do a better job on the Ravager, the Nihilus thing was resolved way too quickly, i think that was meant to be the real ending, the rest was just settling things with Kreia and a say-goodbye thing before making for the unknown regions. what was indeed bad, very bad, was Malachor's surface, what happend to the party? are they injuried or something? how did Mira end up ko all alone on the surface all of a sudden, maybe she went after you as soon as she regained consciousness? they had to show all that stuff.

no, he would have taken her as his new slave

Carth did play a role in defending Telos, he is a republic admiral not a jedi. Bastila probably arrived on Citadel Station shortly after the Exile made for the Ravager, it was a sudden attack and she was probably in hiding like the oder jedi.

"It may be whatever pain he experienced in the past was so great, that the technique he used to recover from it... and sustain himself... also gives him an incredibly high pain threshold." --HK-47, talking about Sion it is quite possible that Nihilus (like many others) knew the Exile, yes, even so Nihilus was the only one who harnessed that ability. Nihilus became a hole in the Force because he harnessed the Exile's ability with the teachings of Trayus Accademy (as it is said that he learned his hunger in that place), in time he kept using it to become more and more powerful until he became a slave to it, only then he became something figuratively resembling a black hole in the Force threatening to draw all life into it. Sion is spoken of as something else, nonetheless to be stopped. yes, i liked that little thing between Sion and the Exile, indeed, it is possible he knew her, or maybe he thought to know her as he chased her, difficult to say. it is something i strongly believe though it remains in the realm of speculations (as does most we've been talking about.)

i wouldn't say that. about the Exile, the only thing they missed is that she was everything that standed in the way of the Sith Lords, but that was because they kept feeling nothing in the Exile, like on Coruscant, like Vrook says in Khoonda. it is because the Force was stripped from her, same reason it was so easy for Kreia to remain unnoticed by Atris and the others, this Atris said when the Exile met her in battle. perhaps some quotations are needed. "But I have reestablished my connection to the Force." "Perhaps it is Dantooine, but I do not feel such from you - I feel nothing but what I felt in the Council judgment chamber on Coruscant, so long ago." --The Exile and Master Vrook in Khoonda "That's impossible. How could I not tell she was Sith?" "Because the Force had been stripped from her... as it had been torn from you." --The Exile and Atris however, besides Atris, Kreia herself speaks of what she has in store for the galaxy, and the Exile. even if it is all a misunderstanding as you say, what manner of "example" would be killing Kreia, that it would somehow "spread to others"? i cannot help but feel unconvinced by this theory. "She seeks the death of all Jedi, all Sith... and the death of the Force. It is madness, it is impossible - but she believes you are the key." --Atris "The apprentice must kill the Master - if you do not, I will kill you. If I do not, then all you have achieved will be as nothing, as empty, and as violent as Malachor itself." --Kreia before Malachor it would have been useless. the masters spoke of force bonds as of something the Exile was gifted with, and it was quite evident, Kreia used the Exile to twin their lives and trained her so that she would become strong, that the connection would become strong. the stronger one is in the Force, the stronger the connection, and the echo it leaves when it is wounded. "Yes, always. From the moment you awoke, I have used you. I have used you so that you might become strong" --Kreia "The stronger your connection to life, to the Force, the stronger these echoes can be made - and the stronger they are felt." --Kreia, ruins of the jedi enclave, cut content

hello there, i'll try to explain. Revan dark = Carth is dead so you can't see him Revan light = you meet Carth (and Bastila if Revan was male) after the Ravager Revan male = T3's holorecord shows Bastila after the Ebon Hawk crashes on Malachor Atton has to stay onboard and make repairs so that when the ship gets free of the rocks Atton flies her to the Trayus Core and picks up the Exile Revan is long gone to the unknown regions, to fight the old Sith Empire, supposedly the remnants of Naga Sadow's forces many found the ending disappointing but some change their mind after some playthroughs

that is an interesting way of putting it thought it wouldn't really be "killing the Force", more like denying the "will of the Force", even so how would that cause people to be deafened to the Force? or die? Atris didn't think so, when the Exile met her in battle she spoke of Kreia's plans for creating an echo in the Force powerful enough to travel forever throughout the galaxy never reaching its destination, leaving in its wake dead spots in which the Force cannot be felt, on Malachor Kreia herself confirms as much, threateing to kill the Exile would she not kill her, because one of them has to die for the bond to become a wound and create the echo. here we go deep into suppositions, it is suggested Nihilus learned the Exile's technique to bond with people and that is what in a way explains why he is similar to the Exile and why he suffered the same fate on Malachor. Kreia says that the technique he uses to feed on the Force is something learned instinctually by experiencing its effects first hand, supposedly he used that technique to survive the MSG and preserve his power, then he flew Malachor with the Ravager. Sion is different, he learned to draw his power from pain and kept himself alive, like he does when he battles the Exile. ":: You have taught them to bond with others, and then feed on others through that bond. ::" she doesn't mean the Exile taught them to drain the Force, if the Exile kills the masters she clearly says "I've never done anything like that before.", it is that Kreia sees taking strenghts from others and feed upon them much as the same ability, which it is but not in the common moral sense, the Exile always did form bonds with others and those connections granted strengths both to them and to the Exile, they never represented a threat to them. then again the ability to form connections is what Nihilus learned from the Exile and he used that ability much as a dark Exile would on the jedi masters: "It is a way that they fill the hollow places where the Force used to be." there is no evidence however that would suggest the Exile and Sion knew each other, quite the contrary, and we do not know the identity of Darth Nihilus so he could be anyone. early dev no doubt, it featured Kreia's "redemption" and Atris taking up the mantel of Darth Traya, there is some evidence of this but much is missing and the story evolved to something too far from that for it to be a late choice.

if that was the case he wouldn't be able to use the Force, Kreia even says he's more of a spirit than flesh and blood. it is because he learned that Force technique that he is able to act as a black hole in the Force, growing stronger and stronger in the Force even as his hunger consume him. that is an interesting way of putting it thought it wouldn't really be "killing the Force", more like denying the "will of the Force", even so how would that cause people to be deafened to the Force? or die? here we go deep into suppositions, it is suggested Nihilus learned the Exile's technique to bond with people and that is what in a way explains why he is similar to the Exile and why he suffered the same fate on Malachor. Kreia says that the technique he uses to feed on the Force is something learned instinctually by experiencing its effects first hand, supposedly he used that technique to survive the MSG and preserve his power, then he flew Malachor with the Ravager. Sion is different, he learned to draw his power from pain and kept himself alive, like he does when he battles the Exile.

interesting what do you mean Nihilus was "totally unconnected to force"? i don't recall hearing anything like that about him, not once. could you please quote specifically? i always thought of him as a McGuffin character, he's barely mentioned though he's the greatest threat, he never speaks a clear word, everything about him has been gathered from Nihilus' mask, a loading screen or two, something more in Kreia's, Visas' and Tobin's dialogs.

that's true of course, it is wrong to make choices for others but maybe she was willing to take that responsibility. that is also true i suppose, there can be no proof that the Force atcually influences our path, nevertheless among the Jedi this is kind of an axiom. life without the Force cannot exist, but it is possible to be deafened to it, that's what it means to be cut off from the Force: to be unable to feel it and use it (Odan-Urr explained the technique to Nomi Sunrider who used it on Ulic Qel-Droma in the Sith War), the Exile willingly let go of the Force, so did Sion in the end. my point is that you can let go of the Force only if you can use it, you cannot let go of something you don't even feel. like Kreia herself says: ":: And these echoes build, and all that can hear them shall become deafened... or die. ::" the Exile was just deaf to the Force, Kreia helped her hear it again but it could only be done because of the Exile's unique ability to form bonds with anything touched by the Force (even Hanharr, lol), when Kreia helps the Exile feel the Force on Peragus one answer was "But it doesn't feel like it did... it feels like it is coming from across a great distance." the Jedi were all but extinct when Alderaan was destroyed by the Death Star, no Jedi was on the planet. as for Nihilus being reborn, it's just a figure of speech meaning that he fell to the dark side and assumed the identity of Darth Ninilus.

there are some things to consider before answering: the echo relies on the bond. Kreia dies, the Exile is wounded, the echo travels. but Vash thought that if Kreia fell to the dark side the bond would go away, is the bond gone away? Zez-Kai Ell says something like that too, that to break a bond your feelings would have to change, if what forged the bond was some sort of kinship (born and grown as Kreia helped the Exile to feel the Force again) then maybe her turning on the Exile was what it took. yes but Kreia fell to the dark side because she thought she had failed, be defeated by the Exile proved her otherwise, in the end she says you saved her. oh but the Exile doesn't seem to be feeling pain or anything when Kreia dies. more than that, before the end she seems to realize something important, i think maybe she realized she was still a pawn of the Force, even in her quest to cut her off from the galaxy ("Atton is, as always, the fool. And the Force watches out for ones such as him, I feel. As it does for the old such as I.") and that the Force was to "survive" after all, she even goes as far as saying that your companions were in truth the Lost Jedi you had to gather and train for the new Jedi Order. but that sounds a bit controversial maybe she figured that out and started thinking about the things she could do something about: fighting the Sith in the great war that comes, now the Exile's training is complete, those Jedi jerks and the Sith Lords are gone, she's had proof that her teachings wrought the best Jedi in the galaxy and she can rest in peace.

:D hahaha lol, i kind of agree with them though, her intent was to free the galaxy of the influence of the Force, the echo Kreia wanted to create on Malachor would harm just those who are aware of the Force and wouldn't give it up to survive, in a way the choice to die would have been theirs, not hers.

i do like TSL better than Kotor (though i didn't really think so when i was still dealing with bugs, faulty quests, lame AI

arguably can we call what generous Team Gizka is working out "original" or "intended", they're stating themselves that some things have to be invented, and though some other things may have been itended to make it to the final game, the arrangements that have been made make it difficult (as i'm sure Team Gizka is aware of) if not impossible for that material to be put back into place and make sense, or result in a more satisfactory less bashable story.

only about Handmaiden as i recall, "if SHE leaves this place" means that if the Exile

i always thought of TSLRP as a big nice mod i'd like to see, nothing more. just personally i believe much of the cut content was already meant to be cut before the deadline problem. take the then things are over before they even begin. take master Vash, and story is over, does it make sense? No (Chewbacca defense )

no, Disciple is not gay, Juhani was more than enough for lucasarts i fear.

the pic is from wookiepedia, it's Kreia's conceptual art. no, their characters ain't by any means alike, and she's human, i know that. i just saw some things in common, they do have some things in common, like in "Atton reminds me of Han Solo", they're very different but they do share a thing or two. making a good article on Wookipedia is not as easy as one would think, you cannot write your own opinions, just stated facts, labiling anything else as speculation. even more so for an article about TSL, one who's played the game and read the chronicles would say they're not the same story. however:

she looks so cool to me! Arca is male? well, if i posted that link it's fair to assume that i knew all that, isn't it? i just meant that Kreia has some abilities and traits that reminded me of Arca, maybe i was implying some lack of originality for those matters but not to the degree of letting it spoil Kreia's character, which i keep thinking to be the most interesting, boldly-created, fascinating sw character in some time, really. and by the way, i'm a dreamy-eyed strong supporter of the Kreia=Kae theory, that story is probably 70% the reasons i like TSL. if somehow one day Obsidian disappoints me with a "no no" i'll be one very sad fan, with all the time i've spent crusading here and there trying to bring down the wall of speculations and come to an undeniable conclusion, if that'd be enough to state it as fact. Maybe one day that'll happen, here and here (and in the talk pages) you'll find the most accurate and serious big collection of evidence and conjectures on this matter, still that was not the topic, moderators will get mad, so

At first Kreia reminded me a bit of master Arca, you know white eyes, white hair, i almost thought she was arkanian. Plus there is something i've been thinking about, the Battle Meditation, Arca knew it, there is no way of knowing if the Exile knew it before loosing his connection to the Force but that power was said to be a rare gift, yet training under Kreia the Exile can learn it. Just thinking, i'm not convinced, but it is a possibility that the Exile could learn it just because Kreia knew the technique, hard to say. Oh, oh, and there's also the ability to tame beasts! When Exar Kun went to Onderon Arca was riding a Drexl.

i would've loved that cut ending with him fighting Sion and dying in your arms saying "i love you" and other sweet stuff