Blarghagh

Since a thread for this already exists in the appropriate forum, locked.

Yeah I saw that one but it wasn't sourced at all.

Anybody have a source on the supposed evidence that Phil Fish bribed his way into winning IGF?

Thanks, guys.

My last remaining grandparent passed away today. I wasn't very close with her so I don't feel very bad, but I feel like I should.

Licketysplit posted this originally but it circumvented the language filter. I felt it was good enough to post again so I censored it. It's from this article: http://www.gamerheadlines.com/2014/09/gamergate-progress-weve-made-far/ This is also a good read. EDIT: Great job, TN. Actually forget to attach the file.

I think it's unhelpful to focus on Zoe and we should keep in mind that regardless of what she did, harassment is not okay. There is no such thing as "deserving" this. Threatening and organizing hate campaigns and calling names is not okay (how much of this has happened is unclear and probably not the amount Zoe claims, but I have seen people calling out to attack Zoe on twitter with my own eyes) and not productive, and why would you do this in the first place? Let's say (probably accurately) that Zoe has no integrity. Why would any intelligent person legitimize her by threatening and harassing her, or consistently making this about her? Why would any intelligent person lower themselves to someone who has no integrity by losing their own? Personally I feel to say the games journalist press makes the narrative is to overestimate games journalist press. YouTubers like JonTron, Boogie, MangaMinx, TotalBiscuit, they have a far larger reach than gaming press does. As MangaMinx points out in the video I posted, even a mid-sized gaming channel is worth a lot more money than most gaming magazines at this point. Gaming press hasn't been relevant for years, pretty much since Jeff Gerstmann got fired back in 2007. People don't read anymore - video content is where gamers go for their news and reviews. I can't go by views because Games Press Websites don't openly show them, but for example if you go to Rock Paper Shotgun, you will see a rough estimated average of maybe 15 Facebook shares and 7 comments on their articles. Even small game review channels on YouTube like Worth-A-Buy that have maybe 3000 subscribers still get TEN TIMES that attention. That seems telling to me. EDIT: Correction, since last I checked the Worth-A-Buy channel has grown to at least 18'000 subscribers. My apologies for the misinformation - but that's still peanuts compared to the high level YouTube Gaming Enthousiasts.

Even if it were true, how does a few people planning harassment translate to all gamers being white, male, cis gender misogynists or to the games industry not being corrupt? It "wins" nothing, as if this was a thing to win in the first place. Even if she proves she is being harassed, gamers are going to keep on being gamers and not being represented by the people doing the harassment. I enjoy the podcast YouTubers Mangaminx and LeutinGaming did on the subject: For those who don't know, MangaMinx is one of the first Let's Play creators on YouTube if not THE first, and she is also a lesbian woman married to another (nonwhite) lesbian gamer and professional gamer, KrismPro. She is very, very adamantly for the #notyourshield movement.

By the way, here's this thing: http://www.change.org/p/the-gaming-industry-please-stop-the-hate

Kartoffelsalat is German for potato salad, right?

Last time, we were, uh, not really discussing news. So lets get back to that, yes?

Closed for length, new one coming up here: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/68337-random-video-game-news/

Trigger warnings make you that angry? I welcome them myself. I mean, as alum said it takes about five seconds to write or ignore. I don't require them, but I appreciate them if they are present (when actually needed). I don't see the big deal. I'm not sure why people showing consideration is a cause to get angry. Of course when people are going to start requiring them, then it's a different issue.

Technically, publishing photos that don't belong to you is also copyright infringement. Technically.

I couldn't find a youtube video of the scene in the movie that's from where she actually grows the beard in several seconds, otherwise I would have shared that.

Yeah, even I really dislike the jerks who make the "gamers are all bigots" argument. I've been called an SJW here once or twice, so that must be saying something. They are incensing others, who might have taken their side and become a force for good and change, against them with their condescending attitudes as well attracting the bigots because their arguments are so nonsensical easy to take apart. Saying all gamers are bigots is like saying all muslims are terrorists - it's demonizing hate speech and it lowers them to the same level as the very worst bigots and makes it harder for anyone who sincerely wants to help further equality and remove toxicity to get their say in. I cannot imagine someone saying something that truly dumb without it being clickbait so they can get attention. They are not in it for the people they claim to be defending, they are in it for the attention, the pats on the back or the negative comments. Cartoonist Tom Preston, for example, is doing it for no other reason than to give exposure to his name and his comics so he can make more money and it annoys me to no end because it means the next time I bring up an actual issue, more people will just shrug it off and nobody who actually wants to help will be able to get through to anyone anymore.

Another picture of the lovely Salmya Hayek:

I doubt that's true. Experience tells me that anyone who goes up and talks to you like "hi, I'm a feminist, here's my manifesto" is going to be a fundamentalist idiot in the same way that a say, jehovah's witness at your door is. But I'm sure you know plenty of people who self-identify as feminists or at least pro-gender equality that just aren't ridiculous hardliners with no other identity than their single belief and you haven't spoken to them about that subject.

You visible in any of those vids, Raithe? Congrats on making it through, I doubt I could have done it. Doctor says I may have sleep apnea. Gonna see a specialist in two weeks and then see when they can schedule me in for observation at a sleep lab.

Even if so, that would be because women and men in general still live different lifestyles. The hole is becoming smaller but gender roles are still a very real thing. By the time anyone can really make an objective, biological fact and statistic based conclusion the whole discussion is mute anyway because you would need a population that is, or is close to, being completely equal in rights and desires - i.e. the same. Don't need feminism if you're equal.

Yeah, I was originally going to make a comment like "well, I'm in the top percentile of purple elephants", but I see alum beat me to it. Regardless, for all your posturing you have said something as meaningless as a blank page even if it is true. You might be in the top percentile of a very large group of men who live strength based lifestyles - a deviation from the standard. But the group of women who live strength based lifestyles is small, they will not have as many deviations from the standard. Just saying you are stronger than women without taking that into account is like saying "water is wet". If you are what you say you are then you are stronger because of your lifestyle and because you are a standard deviation, and so few women beat you at it because you there are so few women who share that lifestyle and deviate that far from the standard.

Is a game some of the people railing on about white males and their misogyny and racism ruining game have brought up as a new ideal, innovative and not about violence, etc. So games must move away from GTA or COD or whatever these wannabe elites cast their noses up at. So chose DE as a reason. Haha, thanks for explaining. I haven't seen anyone do that myself but I will have a hearty laugh at anyone who does. Regardless of whether it is innovative, or even a game at all, claiming Dear Esther is any kind of ideal is nonsensical on a whole new level. Dear Esther's central plot device is that "woman dying to motivate male character's journey" conceit. The game plays the women in refrigerators trope entirely and purposefully straight. I've read a thousand articles calling comic book writers and Christopher Nolan misogynist for using it, yet now a game devoted to it in its entirety is being championed as an example of how to make a game without sexism? edited for grammar and redudancies

What do the statistics and maths say? I don't know, I've never seen them. At the same time, I don't think current statistics really matter for much at all. What I said about gender roles applies here too - women have only recently begun breaking out of gender roles. The amount of women doing strength based activities is smaller than the amount of men doing them, making an average is pointless as they are going to be skewed by that. Even figuring out standard deviation of the top tiers, should you have enough data, would be skewed as a large group is more likely to have more people jumping further from the average than a small group. Mathematically, currently, objectively, men are stronger than women on average? That means very little. I've always subscribed to the Dr. Cox rule of "what do statistics matter to the individual" anyway. Hrm, why Dear Esther as an example? Dan Pinchbeck designed that game. I agree it wasn't innovative (or at least, not as innovative as people make it out to be) but it wasn't made by a woman. Or is it just to say "truly innovative, not like this other game that people said was innovative" outside of being related to women in gaming? The context made it a bit hard for me to see what you meant by that specific example ending this statement with a question mark to show my confusion? "They"? Bruce, no offense, but can't you see that this is the problem? It might be true that women don't like message boards, but that's not what I said nor can we assume "they" being women don't like forums in general based on a comment by a single one. The BSN, for example, has plenty of women. The others I mentioned frequent or have frequented other message boards in the past. I wouldn't presume this one had bad experiences, I added the "judgemental" qualifier to her for a reason. What Amentep said about it being anectdotal very much applies, and you taking that comment as otherwise is exactly what being treated as a mouthpiece is. I can't say women don't like message boards, at most I can say this specific message board has a much lower female to men ratio than a lot of other message boards I have been a part of. What I said is that women, crossplatform, in my experience, don't tend to respond to this subject. I'm not sure if there was a different male to female ratio here it would actually change much about this thread. I've seen threads like these on other boards and the women would either ignore this discussion or do a driveby "this is ridiculous" and move on. I wish I could find the source again for that tweet I posted, as it was posted by a woman. I think the woman tweeted it at @josswhedon but I can't recall. Perhaps, perish the thought, women don't actually care so much about it? This entire thread is making feminism out to be a big deal (positively and negatively), but is it, really?

LadyCrimson and Maria Caliban haven't been around for a while either. There were a couple of girls in the PoE forums but I doubt they'd show up here. I've actually asked a couple of friends if they'd like to join and weigh in but they didn't want to act or be treated like a mouthpiece representing all women. Another (more judgemental) one responded with "I'm not touching any message board with a ten foot pole". Amentep, I don't think a woman's opinion on the matter carries more value but as the the topic concerns the experience of women, their actual experiences (women, not a single one) would be informative. At the same time, I'd like to reiterate that I see this all over - for some reason women do not like to weigh in on the issue at all. As I've said before in this thread, I've heard my friends complain about sexism among gamers they meet online, but I haven't heard them complain about sexism as members of the games industry. I still firmly believe that as more women become game developers, the problem will solve itself. The same is true for most industries. By and large, women haven't been going outside of gender roles and logically it makes sense that there are fewer of them in industries that have been traditionally male up until this point.

Sure, you're lamenting men only talking about it now but you can't see that in your post ? Seemed pretty clear what your snarky joke was getting at. Even that's misrepresenting what I said. Not having a female perspective is problematic but pointing that out does not mean I'm saying other perspectives are pointless by default. You think this discussion won't benefit from a female perspective? Project what you want, that's not what I said, meant or implied anywhere.