Calax

Witcher did start with a AO rating till they trimmed it down for standard release... and gave the nudity etc back in a free patch. Dagon, have fun: http://www.theesa.com/policy/first_amendment_argument.asp

Duuuuude wals, that's because she's ensuring the future of the human race!

Except that R rated movies don't have the same fines chasing them around as this law is trying to impose on M rated games. (Which is exactly why people are trying to stop this). Then it's just a slippery slope to censor all sorts of violence.

... if you're not careful I may drag you into a late night round of vs with der and a regular crew who have a tendancy to incinerate anyone near them. At least my friendly fire stats have decreased considerably from when I first started playing with you guys. Only because if it didn't you'd have Phoe talking your ear off about how to get better... and you'd be dead because you can't aim well enough.

This Dagon, I know for a fact that gamestop will not sell Adult Only games because the hassle of having to deal with the rating is to much. IF they did, they would still be accepting and selling the original print of Grand Theft Auto San Andreas, which got re-rated AO after hot coffee. What's the hassle? They have a policy of not selling M rated games to minors anyway, no? The other thing to realize is that none of the consoles will allow AO rated games, at least in the US. And Gamestop isn't too interested in selling PC games anyway from what I hear. The Hassle is PR, and the possibility of fines (which would quickly stack up I bet). And either way, Gamestop isn't gonna deal with a possibly illegal sale so they play safety, and thus they don't let you turn in a copy of GTA:SA(1st edition) used, and have destroyed the copies currently in their system.

... if you're not careful I may drag you into a late night round of vs with der and a regular crew who have a tendancy to incinerate anyone near them.

This Dagon, I know for a fact that gamestop will not sell Adult Only games because the hassle of having to deal with the rating is to much. IF they did, they would still be accepting and selling the original print of Grand Theft Auto San Andreas, which got re-rated AO after hot coffee.

Again, there are currently no AO games on the shelves because they have been deemed obscene to minors, and carry a fine if they were to be sold to said minors, thus gamestop and other retailers do not stock them. And obscene to minors is exactly what the state of california is putting forth to defend the bill, they're trying to make violence in games on the same level as full frontal nudity.

Basically the point is Under any circumstances if a game is removed from the shelves, the sales decrease rapidly. Because A) Impulse buys are gone, and B) If somebody has the game that's gone and another on their list, they'll simply pick up the other to lower the amount of work they're required to do. What worries people more is that if this goes through, then people will be able to legislate against any violent content deemed offensive to minors. Which means everyone's favorite action flicks go poof (as they cannot be sold in stores) and the new ones coming out get so heavily toned down it's basically an episode of power rangers... with less fighting.

Possibly, but that could also cause a serious drop in THE TIME to buy games (holiday season) because they're not on the shelves when people go to have a look. Would there be some people savvy enough to go to the interwebz? Sure.. the same people who know about and got the initial uncensored patch for Witcher and Fahrenheit. Most would probably just shrug their shoulders and pick up the next thing on the list rather than put in the extra effort. http://kotaku.com/5524553/us-supreme-court...ame-ratings-law http://kotaku.com/5642952/who-argues-viole...d-who-disagrees http://kotaku.com/5586193/this-is-californ...ent-video-games The second link has a pretty good summary from Kotaku that's indexed with other articles that go into the whole affair. Have a look. Third is an analysis of the law

http://kotaku.com/5676273/dragon-age-ii-ha...noteworthy-belt EPIC BELT!

Strat guides>Gamefaqs for me.

I Seeeerriously think they actually found that photo and used it as a reference...

Kitt, thing is that in Cata, hp pools are gonna be 100k for tanks 50-75k for everyone else I think. We just don't have the gear yet (which is why they reversed the change to resil until cata actually pops out). They're also trying to make battlegrounds replace arenas as the place to pvp because it's easier to balance than pvp. http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/59486/battlep...the-apocalypse/ http://www.wowpedia.org/Blightborne_Warplate http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/59490/membrane-of-cthun/ http://www.wowpedia.org/Sanctified_Lasherweave_Raiment Compare the stam numbers on those items. http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/59498/hands-o...ilight-council/ You're going to have a HUGE pile of health to play with

Ok, "First man in Rome" is oh so bias. The first person you meet is Marius, who's bemoaning the corruption in the senate, and the fact that only a select few can make laws and those laws only benefit the select few. Basically its setting him up as the person that everyone will love. Add in he's "just a military man who only plays politics because it's expected of him". Then you meet Sulla... and your first meeting of him is him waking up between a mistress and his stepmother, both of whom he is the "cabana boy" for. Then you go on to learn he enjoys young male prostitutes, and this includes an interlude about a party where he ended up with a little not-so-private coupling with a young boy tressed up as cupid, which pissed off his mistress and stepmother. Oh, and he's also the bootycall for just about every wife on the block (except for Cesars wife). And then there's Gaius Julius Cesar Sr. Who you meet via Marius. He cares about Rome, cares about his slaves, cares about his family, and is Offering Marius the hand of one of his daughters so that she is not forced to wed to a street rat. Basically the introduction goes on and on about how caring, kind, and diciplined he is with himself and his family. Hmmmm, the defining conflict of the time is Marius vs Sulla I wonder who we're supposed to root for!? The author tries to make it seem like Sulla is just a victim of circumstances, but when you expose all of his flaws and none of Marius or Cesars flaws in their introductions, you remove any possibility of tension. I don't know much about this period of Rome, but from the book I have 0 clue how Sulla got any power in the first place when they make it very clear that he's basically using his... manhood to live with his mother, has no money, and basically is ineffectual on anything.

In what way? I know what you mean, nevertheless he didn't really amaze me. Ieyasu reminds me of Liu Bei as well. Unlocked Nobunaga and kicked both Mitsunari's and Ieyasu's asses in the final stage. I have a feeling Nobunaga was shoehorned into the game as a playable character at the last moment. Well, Strikeforce is an obvious port from the PSP. They didn't even try to change it to take more advantage of the PS3 hardware. So the game has loading screens a-plenty and doesn't look very good when put on a larger screen. As to DW6:E, well... unless you pick one of the "ruler" characters, you're basically playing an infinitely generated version of story mode as you're given instructions by your ruler about what to do and where to attack, rather than before where you did it all yourself. Yeah, Nobunaga was definitely shoe-horned in simply to please the fanbase. I mean even by the games loose standards he's dead and buried at this point.

Yeah, because it doesn't friggin' matter if Afgani's are dying because of the leaks posted on the web. It only matters that Americans are brutal ****, and Di in particular is a Fox News Junkie, even though she hasn't seen more than six minutes of Fox News in the past five years. She isn't a European, she isn't an Australian, so she must be some kind of right-wing nutcase, despite the fact that she hasn't voted republican in a decade and is an avowed atheist. And God forbid she post an opinion on this forum, because everyone knows that as an American female she must be a dedicated right-winger, despite the fact that she has spent the past decade railing against the illegal preemptive invasion of Iraq as an illegal war based upon lies and deceit. She is Di... she is American, she is a female... therefore, she must be a brain-washed idiot. Your condescending insult of people with your stereotypes and pompous superiority complex because they aren't YOU, aren't from your so-very-perfect societies, make me glad that although I live in an imperfect country with a government I frequently disagree with, at least I don't live in a country that ignores its imperfections in order to scapegoat others to make myself feel important in a world where I know that I don't really matter. What a cruel bunch of xenophobic bullies you are. I'm actually sorry that the internet came to exist. Before that happened, I actually thought that I liked Australians and western Europeans because I didn't know what self-indulgent blame-mongering pricks they were. I have now been enlightened. ... Interesting that you responded while quoting me, when I'm a white American never made any bones about it. AND the fact that the Zoraptor and Kez already pointed out that A) the documents leaked had the names redacted, and B) EVEN FOX NEWS SAID THAT THERE WERE NO REPERCUSSIONS SEEN. I'm sorry, but even if you don't watch fox news, for them to admit that is... pretty good confirmation.

Didn't we go over di's argument back when it was in a current part of newsweek... 2 months ago?

2 things 1) they already do check ID for M rated games. It's just they'd have to get more technical about it so that they don't get screwed by a fake ID. 2)There are only two types of speech that are not completely protected by the constitution. Threats, and obscene material. The first isn't protected because more often than not it can lead to something, the second isn't covered because well, it's porn . Everything else is technically covered by the First amendment of the constitution of the united states from being censored out of the public eye. This law is a form of censorship at it's core.

There are retailers who carry tobacco and alcohol, but then, that sort of thing is aimed squarely at the age bracket above the legal limit. games are aimed at the bracket that isn't necessarily above the limit. And actually, AO doesn't mean obscene. A few releases have gotten that (Farenheit for example is on that list) but usually games that are from Euro or Japan that are translated without any cut content (the Witcher in it's "pure" form is this for example). But the fact is that no game goes there if it wants a big name, or isn't having a chopped up copy for the M market because you will get 0 retailers who sell it. As soon as a product requires special checks to sell, it'll get either ejected from retailers, or it'll have to build it's own specialty market. See gunz, weaponz, and porn. The biggest difference between your examples and games is that your examples have VERY long traditions of being accepted, games not so much.

Please see AO rated games. They're technically not illegal to sell, but no retailer will carry them because they're carrying the fine and the PR backlash Also, this law would criminalize the sale in the same way that tobacco and alcohol are.

So your argument is what? Children should be playing M rated games so that they can support production of M rated games for adults? So is down up to you? Because what you think I said and what I did say are completely different things. What I'm saying is that if M games become dangerous to sell, they won't be sold. It has nothing to do with who's playing, just the ability of a retailer to sell a product. If a game gets rated M for mature and that law is active, you will NOT see any M rated games being sold in stores, because it would be to dangerous for a retailer to sell an M rated game. If a retailer won't touch it, then it doesn't get made because you will NOT have a return on investment. That's why games do everything they can to avoid AO because it's in the SAME EXACT POSITION as M rated games (by choice rather than by law) So no: Fallout Fable Grand Theft Auto Halo Call of Duty Farenheit Heavy Rain Red Dead Company of Heroes Alpha Protocol Mass Effect Metal Gear

Could one of you punks get me a screenie of Oliver Swanick outside nipton?

It's not illegal per-se, but they'd have to design the store around having an Adults Only section, and games have that "kids only" stigma attached which ends up causing most stores to just not have it and not to have to deal with angry parents yelling about "contaminating our kids". The list of AO games doesn't help matters. Basically the amount of hoops they'd jump through and negative press they get wouldn't be worth it.

Actually Crimson the T rating reads and the M rating is Where things get iffy IMO is in the M-rating because anymore you seem to have "hard" M (god of war, GTA) and "lite" m (Call of Duty, and most FPS in general). Edit; Btw, dagon, have you ever seen an AO rated game in a retailer? Did you even knew they existed? That rating and NC-17 is EXACTLY why you don't want this law to go through.