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Oh god, this one is just amazing, love it ! Propably my favorite combat piece.

I can hardly see selection circles in this PoE screen. Bleh.

Imo camera angle has to change.

Now that's when most people here differ. Current, those "minor" changes prove that it requires more to really change the overall feel of the combat. "Massive, sweeping changes" that changes an entire flow of combat are needed, because this is what is wrong with combat now... i.e, combat flow. Entire discussion here is based on the fact, that what they wanted to make is not nearly as good as what IE games presented...

For me, problem with combat interface is just the tip of the iceberg. Main problems were highlighted in the forums, but THE MOST important thing here, is the AWARNESS of the existing problem. If Obsidian is not fully realizing what we are talking about here, or is taking this topic lightly, not much will be done here. What this game needs at this point, is trying many different approaches related to fluidity of combat, and implementing them on a daily basis. This needs to be done extensively inside the Obsidian, things have to be verified inside Obsidian even without backers help or opinion, simply because combat gameplay is just not up to todays standards. Sadly, looking at the progress shown in new beta builds, this is not being done. My hope would be all lost, if Obisidian didn't push the release date, but it is still very sluggish.

Darn, this discussion is so objective.

Most people backed this project, because it supposed to be a IE games succesor, so naturally we will head towards that direction. Make combat at least as good as IE games did, and then try to make it better... Looking at beta, it's clear that most things that Obsidian came up with aren't good, that's why most people started to suggest changes in the IE games direction. There's not enough time to try completely new ideas, in my opinion we should make combat at least as good as IE games did.

What's wrong with expressing our own point of view ? I'm sure that Sensuki is fully aware of other opinions. I don't see anything wrong with his "zealous" approach for the testing, and if someone have other ideas, he should show them in similiar, convincing way. You see Sensukis involvement in such manner, because there is no other user expressing his ideas in such persuasive way. Maybe there's a reason behind it, maybe it's because sensuki\s ideas are simply good. I accept such a strong display of mans opinion as long as it's reasonable and supported by logical arguments. Another thing. Sensuki is making all these references to IE games, just because we all remember those games as satisfying, and highly enjoyable when it comes to combat. When sensuki is talking about RTS games mechanics, it's because IE games used similiar mechanics and it worked very, very well. All of this is just because this "bad, ancient combat system", as you called it, is still a MUCH BETTER system than everything what POE shown in beta. For me, current POE combat is complete garbage, and I know that I won't enjoy this game to the extent I was hoping for, if I will fail to extract any fun from the encounters in the game. I see that now, when I played both Divinity: Original Sin, and Wastelands 2. Despite the fact, that Wastelands 2 had better plot and overall rpg experience, I remember Original Sin as simply, just a better game. It's because combat was such a huge part of both games, D: OS did it better. tl;dr - as for now(and there's not much time left) IE games did it better, we should gather from them as much as we can.

Since there is no experience gained from combat and current combat system is horrible, how about going one step forward and removing all combat from the game. There could be something like those text screens, like when you gather eggs from the mountain. It would be like "You stumbled across a bunch of stone beetles, what do you do?". There would be no need for random encounters, and everyone who likes the "rpg over everything" and who is against combat xp, would be satisfied.

After trying Wasteland 2 lately I\m even more worried for the Pillars of Eternity, being also the kickstarter project...

Serpent in the Staglands just released their beta build. I'm thinking about buying acces :S

Mob density in IWD2 was just fine, and combat in these kind of games is entertaining as long as it is rewarding, and not necessarily (at least not too much) needed for the progress in the game. I know that clearing few consequent caves of trolls in nwn was just overwhelmingly boring, but combat xp system is the best system. Just make it like it was in BG2 (i.e perfectly balanced). Huge part of the game are the abilities, to kill monsters, and items, which makes you kill monsters faster, so it would be irrational to make killing those monsters not rewarding, or brought to second plan. Combat was always a perfect addition to the plot, and personally I would like to test my party in random combat on various occasions, getting a reasonable reward for it. + story is not always a good thing. Sometimes, some things are better, if they remain more of a mystery, without explaining everything about it. It forces you to use your imagination. It's ok if it's reasonably balanced troughout the game. Balanced ammount of story, combat, and random, thoughtless encounters is the best solution, I think.

I actually thought that BG looks a lot better... ; ) I guess there's no pleasing us all. Also, for those thinking that "this is just beta", based on experience from MANY other games, things won't change as much on release.

Only 63 votes for combat xp makes me sad...

Some things I heard like 1,2 times already You really want them to listen ; ))

Dammit sensuki, you are the real man, thanks for showing this Serpent in the Staglands screen. I checked out everything about this game and I can't wait to play it. I'm so hyped, Those graphics and combat style really look just amazing !

Whoah, this Serpent in the Staglands game looks astonishing. Never heard of it before, but I love this kind of art style. I wonder when people will realize, that for some kind of games 2D graphics are just better.

We need that damn exp reward from monsters, not less monsters... There are no patchnotes yet ?

Yeah, by seconds I ment ms. Even such small ammount of time between actions would improve the overall feeling dramatically.

Wow ! Yes man, that's exactly what is missing in Pillars of Eternity. It would also fix the enemies going too fast into melee fight, giving those few seconds to pause the game before everyone is moving. This is indeed an outstanding catch you got there, not many people would see what's wrong with it in PoE with such accuracy.

+ combat needs a complete rework xd If someone feel strongly against the design behind the game, that he was waiting for a long time, and he backed it, he will say that he dislike it on every occasion, thats normal I think xd

I kind of agree with overall Helm's thought. At the current state, PoE doesn't resemble old ie games at all. But its too early to say, that this design is wrong, as the whole game isn't done yet. So you can't really compare it with finished ie games yet.

I just wanted to say, that I just checked out your feedback topics Sensuki, and I totally love it. Keep at good work man, you are making excellent points ! PoE will be definitely a better game with this.

Currently, it is inferior.

Yup, you are making a good point. I agree with all things you point out. It's just that the HUGE ammount of bugs that are currently present in beta, makes the assessment of the game really, really hard. I guess we will see if you were right after they fix most of them ; )