Wynne

Hmm... Bastila, Carth, and Revan... so you agree that Revan needs to be a female!

"The Force sustains us..." Both of these scenarios were an absolute HEAVEN of laughter, but of course Atton is my flavor of choice. HEAVEN, I tell you!!! :D

Visas. I look vaguely like her. I was brainwashed and have slowly been recovering over the years. I wore highly concealing clothing. I was thoughtful and easily influenced and loyal. But I was more nervous and idealistic. Course, now I take Mira's bothan stunner philosophy about men. I guess I also resemble Handmaiden... naive, thinking she was less than everyone around her when she was actually more all along. Although, now I'm as jaded and apathetic as most people I know, I'd say. You know, in real life I would be very fond of an Atton sort of person, too. Someone with a dark side and a need for compassion from others, but also with a sense of humor and independence... that's just the sort of person I would get along with best. I'd have things to offer them, and they'd have things to offer me. And I'm talking friendship-wise, not just relationship-wise.

*lol* She is! Actually, that would be great casting... and that was my Revan, too, minus the modded red hair. As to Atton, I still haven't seen anyone who looks remotely like him. Including Nicky Katt, though of course I like the actor quite a bit. (Edit: See below where I found one! To my shock...) Nah, it was definitely funny. :D I get the SAME thing, except with geek. On a first and second date I kept telling a guy, "I'm a geek" and, over and over, he's like "No, you're not!" Yes, I AM. Shut up. Needless to say there wasn't a third date! You know, I may get slapped, but I really think Orlando Bloom resembles Carth in ways. And I'm not even one of Orly's swooning, drooling fangirls. Give him a few years... or heck, what about Johnny Depp? Eh, eh? So ASK them. Otherwise we'll never believe you. And if you do you'll be our hero. :D WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too much personality to play Disciple. But your Heath Ledger idea--yes. He could make Disciple appealing. Also, Selma Blair--good Visas. Of course, Kelly Hu looks the part, knows martial arts, and she has the voice--might as well make her Visas. You know, come to think of it, I've GOT it. I've got Atton. This is scary. It's completely wigging me out. Open two windows, put 'em side by side... Reiterating screenshot: Atton 1 And the scary double: Atton 2 Once I thought of it I couldn't get it out of my head, and lo and behold... give him fluffier hair and he IS Atton. Spot on.

I sent Visas, Disciple, and Mira my first time, if I recall correctly. HAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. That was so badass. Give Visas Force Storm, give Mira Stealth and Demolitions, and you can really destroy the place. By the time I got to the Sith Lords they were crying like babies. I would've sent Atton, but I couldn't bear to have him leave my side. I wanted him with me at the Palace. Yes, yes, I know, I'm silly. MAN, the bad AI is a pain in the arse. Hell, even my character, when I give her direct commands, will often enough just do something else--twitch in place, or attack with melee when I called for Force Storm, or use Force Whirlwind instead of Force Wave... it's crazy.

Atris knows because Kreia told her, and Kreia's powers were stripped by Sion and Nihilus, I believe. After all, you get that cutscene if you have enough influence with her, and she says to Sion in their early fight on the Harbinger that he betrayed her. It seemed to me like a subtly serious betrayal. It could've been the Council, but Kreia seems more opposed to the Council in philosophy... like they were too slow to act where she was concerned. And after all, Master Kavar doesn't say to her at the Dantooine Enclave, "But we stripped you of your powers!" he says "We were told you had died in the wars!" She took on a contempt for her children much like she had contempt for the Council--as two wrong extremes unknowingly manipulated by the Force. The first two handmaiden fights are easiest if your base strength is fairly high (increases your damage and chance to hit) and if you have a high flurry/dueling/toughness/whatnot. You need more con than they've got to survive them, and you need enough chance to hit MINUS ALL ITEMS. Then you can slap those arrogant witches silly, although afterward they really aren't any less sour in personality. Still, it's satisfying while you can do it. If only you could do the same to that snooty cow Atris... Also, a high critical strike can net you a stun, which is invaluable when you can't use your Force powers.

"Statement: Oh, yes. My master had quite the collection of tortured individuals that seemed unable to confront their basic personality conflicts. Let me cite some specific examples: Mockery: 'Oh, master, I do not trust you! I cannot trust you, or anyone, ever again!' Mockery: 'Oh, master, I love you, but I hate all you stand for, but I think we should go press our slimy, mucus-covered lips together in the cargo hold!' Conclusion: Such pheromone-driven human responses never cease to decrease the charge in my capacitors, and make me wish I could press a blaster pistol to my behavior core and pull the trigger."

(SPOILERS) Atton, I think, gains influence for one of two reasons--either because that tension of guilt over Jedi is relieved by you gleefully blowing out the brains of innocent people worse than he ever did, or because your unrelenting acceptance of him of defies the stereotypes he once held and brings that remorse to the surface, along with admiration. He's pretty complex. I see it as being possible to go several ways. You can leave him lost and adrift at neutral. You can drag him down into the dark by being like Revan and lying and manipulating until you've corrupted him and made him into a blindly obedient killing machine again. Or you can open his eyes and be like the woman who saved him, caring enough to bring him to a place of free will in the light. You can show him what the Jedi truly are instead of the propaganda he was led to believe (somewhat rightfully, since the council DID sit back while whole worlds were shattered.) By twisting him until he's so jaded that he only feels the coldness again, you 'relieve' him of his guilt. By making him face himself, purge all those bad feelings until nothing remains but the wrenching truth and a longing for redemption, you also relieve him of his guilt--show him peace. The shadows haunting his soul are the key, whether you're light or dark. And by freeing him of them--or blinding him to them, he comes to care for you--or serve you.

Hear that, Obsidian? That's two for me! My resume will be on your desk... (In my dreams, that is.) That would have to be cosmically nitpicky. I haven't found any even vaguely significant differences between the sense made when I played as a female vs. the sense made when I played as a male. (The male character model's arses are much nicer in KOTOR 2, btw. ) Not quite true. It's obvious the threats beyond the Outer Rim would be bigger and badder--you should start as a tougher character (level 20 or so) and the action should be scaled to that. This allows for a lot of creativity, not to mention expanded gameplay. Barring that, there's always the old "Whoops, where did my powers go?" trick which got pulled in the first two games already. It's serviceable. Why pull out the staples?

Vandar, Jolee Bindo, Dustil Onasi, Trask... all good choices.

I think when I go to sleep tonight my subconscious mind will be playing all KINDS of havoc with that lovely idea. Hear, hear! It's not that there wasn't potential, it's just that they didn't progress well enough to be really fulfilling. Particularly towards the end after you exhausted their dialogues. He would make a hell of an evil love interest! Cool character, great voicing. And he's a bit of a silver fox to boot. Way too old for me, but still rather hot. I did like the larger number of options. Heh, one in KOTOR 1, 2 in KOTOR 2. But as an Atton-phile, I would've preferred it just be Atton if we could've gotten as much fulfillment/closure as we did with Carth. Dammit. Or better yet, more. Ah, the dancer's outfit... I was pretty disappointed that Atton never even made a comment. I had both Atton and Disciple with me, and NA-DA. No flustered, blushing Disciple, no drooling Atton... nothing. For shame. <_< That's one of those minor yet major disappointments... those little touches that could've added so much. If only Obsidian had the time... *sigh* I LOVE the way your mind works. Any chance of you writing a mod and abducting Nicky Katt to do the lines? Aww, I know, but a girl can dream, right? Yeah, cute. You can fence in real life--that's comparable to lightsaber battles. There are plenty of real world comparisons for any game activity. The point is immersion, the point is fun. Having companions and relationships for your character helps draw you in, make you feel like you're really there and all those lightsaber battles really mean something. Same with the dialogue and the choices you make in quests--you can talk and choose things in real life, does that mean that nobody should ever talk in a game and you should only have one set linear path of action? Hardly. I don't think anyone could get mad at such a weak attempt to make yourself look like you have a life. Face it, you're posting on a forum for a Star Wars videogame--ya don't have one. Now let's call a truce; I'll let you get back to your inflatable girlfriend while I go turn Atton into a Dark Jedi. Ah, but it's not just you! I normally like hair longer, but his looks silly when it's poofy. He should always keep it kinda short. He also has the most LUSCIOUS voice... I don't know how the hell he manages to sound so boyish and so manly at the same time. Mmm.... Whoa... I've seen that guy before! I hadn't expected the actor himself to be more gorgeous than the character he plays. Whoa. And he, too, has a really hot voice. Aww... dude, I feel your pain, she was cool. If there was a movie, SHE should be the love interest. She's the most interesting female character in the game. I know I must've said this about twenty bazillion times before on the internet, but I really hope Obsidian will someday do a KOTOR 3, and that if there is a KOTOR 3 of any sort, we'll get Exile/Mira/Atton all back together again. That's my modest little wish.

Bao-Dur: I really did not like him at first... he seemed boring... but he grew on me a bit. I just wish there was more to do with him. Disciple: He was all right. I liked that he was a gentleman. He became sort of like a brother to me, but he could've had a good bit more depth. Well, actually, he seemed more like that guy who you think might be interested in you, but then you find out he's actually just really sensitive. And a flaming homosexual. Handmaiden: I haven't actually taken her along as an NPC, but talking with her didn't impress me. She seemed so unsure of herself and naive. Visas: I liked her, but she was too much a puppet, too flat in ways. You should've been able to upgrade her with influence to have some actual self-respect. That could've been totally cool--arguing with her about philosophy, exposing the brainwashing and helping her break out of the mold. Mira: If I were a guy, I'd be pissed that she thinks you're too old, and annoyed that both romance options for a male Exile were so insecure and servile. She was the coolest of the females--she just had more personality and spunk, the type of person who could actually keep up with a male Exile instead of being his droid-with-boobs. Hanharr: Interesting enough, but he didn't really impress me that much. T3: WAY more fun than in KOTOR. I loved what they did with him, loved it, loved it, loved it. I just wish you didn't have to have 16 INT to get the really good stuff out of your encounters with him. HK-47: Takes too long to get him, and while he's amusing, he never held my interest that much--in the first or second game. He really is hilarious, but he just didn't make me fond of him the way T3 did. Maybe it's the whole evil thing. I hate to be prejudiced, but evil never really gets to me. I guess I'm just a Lightsider at heart. Mandalore: Flat, boring, never really fulfilled the small potential that was there. I found other Mandalorians (Bralor, for instance) way more intriguing. Kreia: Awesome, of course. If only all the NPCs were so detailed. My only wish was that there were more options than "I'm an evil moron!" or "I'm a good moron!" like, if you're good, buying the beggar on Nar Shadaa a meal and then helping him get a job instead of just foolishly handing him credits. Atton... oh. I absolutely loved him, but his potential was squandered. After Nar Shadaa, there's nothing compelling related to him... you're doing all these amazing things, but he never speaks to you again. Not on Onderon, not on Korriban, and he doesn't even come with you on the Ravager or Malachor! Horrible. Absolutely horrible. My #1 favorite of all the NPCs, but he just fades away into the background after a satisfying beginning and middle. I adored Carth. I never would've believed I'd like another pilot like him--I actually was all set to be disinterested in and annoyed by Atton, to a degree. Then I slowly came to like Atton even more. Yet, the relationship with Carth was so much more satisfying. I'll never forget the huge potential of this character, nor how completely it fell flat in the end of the game. All in all, if I had my choice, I'd straightaway cut out some of the less-detailed NPCs, particularly Handmaiden/Disciple--making them just people you can meet instead of party-joiners. I'd make Mira and Bao-Dur the alternate options instead. I might also cut Mandalore as joinable. Then I'd put more flesh on the bones of the other characters, and make them change more according to alignment.

First of all, that's not a video game. That's a movie. We can't make Leia into a guy either, but nobody's going to protest, because that's a set story--one person's vision, not an RPG, which is the player's vision. That you would even compare the two mediums says nothing good about your ability to apply common sense to this situation. Second, did you ever actually SEE what's under those robes? And don't you think Anakin is rather androgynous anyway? Metadigital's scenario is all too credible! Well, I'm glad somebody sees it that way! *hug*

There's personal preference, and then there's childishness. "It should be exactly THIS way for no reason except that I WANT IT" is the attitude of a person well under 14. I recommend you try growing up, little Peter Pan--I promise it's not half so bad as it seems from the outside. But to get back on topic with KOTOR 3 beginning and ending suggestions... Start: With you creating Revan and the Exile, choosing a joint gender and starting alignment, playing in a strange new location which you traveled to after the end of KOTOR 2. Possibly discussing your new predicament with the remnants of a dead race, like the ghost of an alien Force-user. This should be a lonely, isolated planet, like Peragus or Korriban in KOTOR 2... someplace where you can test your skills and assemble equipment, and eventually meet up with about half each of Revan and the Exile's companions (Bastila, Carth, Atton, Juhani, Visas, HK-47, T3, Mira-or-Hanharr, and Bao-Dur, let's say) who followed you in the Ebon Hawk. When you meet the NPCs, a conversation determines your past relationship with them (Revan: 1. Bastila, my love, I am sorry that I left you behind. I had no choice. 2. Carth, my love, I am sorry that I left you behind. I had no choice. 3. Juhani, my love, I am sorry that I left you behind. I had no choice. 4. HK-47, my love... ha, just kidding, but I've missed you all. Even you, you rusted scrap heap. 5. It's great to see all my friends again.) And afterward, if it wouldn't be too difficult for the developers, you could develop a relationship between characters if you chose not to have any locked in from the beginning. In KOTOR 2, the Ithorian leader already proposes the idea of healing yourself by healing a planet. It's like foreshadowing. That would be REALLY cool... for your task to be becoming powerful enough, or gathering enough people/resources, that you could create a true Paradise. Heck, if not the new planet you're on because of some reverse-Malachor-like special energy properties it has, maybe it should be Dantooine (which is a planet I don't think I can get sick of, much like Korriban), and you'd go to other worlds to try to recruit Force-sensitive people to make settlements there in order to expand the amount of Force energy with which to work. The Exile in particular already had practice doing that in KOTOR 2--Bao-Dur/Disciple/Atton/Mira/Visas. It could be like gaining alignment points... gaining 'planet points' or 'Force bond' points until you are influencing basically the entire galaxy, for Light or for Dark. End: Well, I like Ohma's idea about having the choice to sacrifice your companions for power and dark side points. Or save them at a cost to yourself. Maybe in the end you could try to spread as much life and healing through the Force as you spread death on Malachor, if you were Lightside. And if you were Dark, you could Force Persuade people to the planet, and at the end sap them all of energy like Nihilus sapped Katarr. And either way, you'd be defeating the threat--either to lives or to your own power. There should also be a HUGE temptation of some sort for both alignments. Light to turn Dark, Dark to turn Light. Regardless, I like the idea of having multiple large-scale options, particularly since this is the third installment in an RPG series. Trilogy endings should be as varied and satisfying as possible.

Darth Kreia, for complexity and uniqueness. Evil Bastila and Malak come in at a close second--Bastila because I could really feel in my heart that she had just been slowly broken and reconditioned and it wasn't entirely her that was fighting me, harming me. Malak because I cared about him more than your typical villain... after all, he was once my apprentice, and I sensed there was some good in him. Maybe if things had been different... but we'll never know, of course. Darth Bandon would probably be third. He piqued my interest a mite. Oh, and I didn't hate anyone in either KOTOR half so much as Calo Nord. The only thing I loved about him was killing him and getting his equipment.

Ditto. I didn't shell out for an Athlon 64 and GeForce 6600GT for nothing. And even if I hadn't, I just love my mouse and keyboard and the cozy feel of playing games in my room... I'm a PC gamer at heart. Ironic, since I started with Atari, Colecovision, and Nintendo as a tiny little kid. I hope Jade Empire does well. Well enough to get ported. Funny, though I only play PC as a platform, I tend to pick games that are on multiple platforms (Morrowind, Thief 3, Splinter Cell, KOTOR, Beyond Good & Evil.) Although, there are exceptions. (Half-Life 2, Bloodlines.)

Oh, I would send them the nastiest letters ever if they tried to stop this restoration. When you insult the little guy AND the developer, you're insulting me. Twenty times over. I might even boycott the publisher. I doubt LucasArts would be that crazy, though. They're not Eidos yet.

And certainly not Lord Pookie.

How about the world killer's mentor? The one who taught him how to be a badass when he was still in diapers? Actually, all that stuff about Nihilus being so bad didn't interest me all that much for some reason. Maybe I'm just deadened to characters who seem like the boogeyman. He didn't frighten me that much when I was a kid, he didn't frighten me much now. Then again, I fell asleep out of boredom during the Exorcist, which people tell me is a fairly atypical reaction, so I may just be that jaded. Kreia's amoral depth interested me far more. So too did the idea that the 'end baddie' actually turned out to be a longtime party member. I thought that was a damn cool idea. Much more so than, "the bad guy we keep talking about... is actually still the bad guy." Wow, shocking. I did know something was screwed up with Kreia, don't get me wrong, and I never felt hatred for her like you'd feel for a typical boss villain, but she actually held my interest in this game--enough that I wanted to get to her to find the answers. Your mileage clearly varied, but I think for most of us, confronting her was a sort of climax. Could've been better, but was still pretty intriguing--more so than just a plain fight. Of course, it might have been interesting if some deeds attributed to Nihilus had actually turned out to be the work of Darth Traya. After all, she was Sith. Why must I be so misunderstood? *mournful expression* Actually, I liked the idea of fighting Nihilus twice, once when he's weaker and again after he too has strengthened himself, and very much liked the idea of having the player choose their sacrifices from amongst their NPCs. If you think about it, hearing their arguments, pleas for their own safety, venom or gratitude or begging you to let them die for you out of love or friendship... the potential is pretty dramatic and I find it highly enticing. It would have been awesome, very character developing, and minus the storm beast and mass shadow generators to slow you down, we could have a much-less-prone-to-exposition Kreia fight you in her prime. Along the NPC idea again, how cool would it be to be able to kill your party members to get a humongous stat and/or experience bonus... that would be wonderfully tempting. Great for Dark characters to take advantage of, and Light characters to earn the love and doubled loyalty of their companions through. Well, I appreciate you reading my intentions right, but that would be she, actually. I know it's hard for the average gamer guy to wrap his head around, but there are actually some non-males who play games. You know, we strange people who bathe regularly and have round bouncy things on our chests... some of us play games. Go figure. Hell yeah. Hell yeah. That's spot on how I feel, too. Not the new recruit thing, though... I'd much rather play as the Revan and Exile. Otherwise, you have tons of possible combinations of what Revan and the Exile were (LSF/LSF, LSM/LSM, DSF/DSF, DSM/DSM, LSF/DSM, DSF/LSM, and so on--mega-confusing and dangerously buggy) or you have developer dictatorship (with them choosing Revan and the Exile, which shuts out a LOT of people --everyone who played Dark or female or both in either game.) Better to have two groups, or have two player-created characters (Revan and the Exile both as playable characters, perhaps leading different teams on different adventures, sort of like you do when you split forces on Onderon in KOTOR 2.)

At Telos, when the (female, at least) Exile is not around and has no concept of what is going on, the player gets to see Kreia calling Atton 'murderer' and threatens Atton with the Exile finding out his secret. The influence points the way to the truth, I'd say, meaning, he really was a murderer. "I am as Atton as Atton ever will be..." I think is the exact quote. I think Atton is the name he's chosen to represent the self he became, and I don't think he would want the Exile to know him by any other name. Whatever name he had before is tainted for him.

I don't know how big the audience for Thief is around here, but I figured I'd give it a shot. All that's left to do is finish up the beta-testing... Thief 2X Trailer on this page Practical lowdown on the Thief games and their availability? Thief 2: The Metal Age is the sequel to the revolutionary game Thief: The Dark Project. While I don't think T2 is half as good as the first game, since it was rushed a la KOTOR 2, it is still good. And both games, although out for the PC only, were released in the year range of 98-2000 range and are thus playable on some pretty damn old systems. They are also ridiculously cheap, and sometimes packaged together. And with the unbelievable plethora of high-quality mods out there, you can get hundreds of extra hours of decent-to-fantastic gameplay for the bargain bin price you'll pay for these games. They practically pay YOU for buying them, by now. Thief 3 is on PC and Xbox, and is a great game. Not as good as T1 to a hardcore fan like me, but very close, and with a VERY satisfactory conclusion to the trilogy. The kind of awesome closing line that ties in to the first game well enough to bring tears to your eyes. Also, if you like horror, Shalebridge Cradle will blow you away. I've got a strong stomach for that stuff. I'm the type who watched the Exorcist for the first time at night, but got bored and took a nap. I've played the Silent Hill games, and while they were awesome, Shalebridge rattled me way more. It's one hell of an intense experience. When a mere place, without very much at all inside of it besides walls and doors and sounds, can freak you out like nothing you've ever seen before, you know you're playing something unforgettable. But what is Thief, really? Thief is a game about the shivers down your spine when all the lights are out. Thief is a game about the feeling you got playing hide and seek as a kid, but refined for more mature tastes. Thief is a game that appeals to both genders, much like the KOTOR games, although there is a single (male) main character. Thief will capture your imagination and give you a shock which I would call akin to the original KOTOR's jaw-dropper. Thief features lots of in-game moments you make yourself, as well as breathtaking and edgy cutscenes which will stay in your mind for years, and ambient music which will burn itself into your brain. Even now, after I've played it to death, I could tell you Thief stories with the kind of misty fondness people reserve for their first love--or for Planescape. Thief is a unique steampunk universe shown primarily from a first-person perspective (Thief 3, while it must be played after the first two games to truly appreciate the plot, has third-person), but it's not a shooter. It's MUCH more interesting than your garden variety shooter. If you do play shooters, it will remind you more of Call of Duty or System Shock 2 than Doom. What you do in Thief is what Looking Glass had us doing years before Splinter Cell came out--similar, but in a medieval universe which is more raw and gritty and low-tech. You don't have sophisticated technology and a constantly available team of experts on your side. You do it the hard way... the sexy way... your hands and feet wedged against cobbled stone and brick, your teeth clenched around the next arrow you'll be firing to take out that torch, your back to the wall and your stomach in knots. And as that guard comes around the corner, your breathing will cease without thought as you try to flatten yourself against your chair so he won't bump into you. You don't get any more powerful in Thief--and contrary to how it sounds, that is one of the most delicious aspects of the game. Everything you thought you knew about gaming will be nudged a little bit to the left--Thief will teach you another way, and nothing else will ever feel quite like it. So, then, what the hell is Thief 2X: Shadows of the Metal Age? A near-professional, unofficial, and thus completely free full expansion for Thief 2. It is sort of a prequel, with a new main character who is neither a copy of Garrett nor a crappy stereotype. Basically everything in the game is refined and tuned and made new all over again. The modding community for Thief has always been high above the average. Thief's uniqueness, addictiveness, and obsession-creating appeal somehow drew an unusually smart crowd--and I say this firsthand, having played scores of fan missions over the years since the first game's release. Calendra's Cistern, Calendra's Legacy, The Seventh Crystal, Rowena's Curse, COSAS 1, and many others have amazed me no end with how much non-professionals can--and will--do with their free time. The crowds for other games are okay, but only Thief has really blown me away when it comes to mods. In fact, the modding crowd was so good that Sledge--responsible for a mod called Inverted Manse--was actually hired to help make Thief 3 after some of the developers played his mission and saw his fine work. That is hella cool, and he was an invaluable aid in making T2X happen as well. You're not gushing just like this because. What's your ulterior motive? I will confess to that motive in a moment, but I honestly LOVE Thief. I'm a crazily devoted fan ('who needs a life when I have Thief?' ) who's been active in the community for quite some time--I have been around long enough to remember drooling over the prospect of Thief 2 being released. I did help with this project, voicing Zaya and contributing two panels for briefing art. But there's a reason I invested in it in the first place--I saw how awesome the fan content (made by the level-builders and other assorted talents who later went on to work on T2X) was, I saw the work of Looking Glass Studios on the original Thief, and I fell in love with voice acting through doing voice for other fan missions. The whole reason I became involved in the first place is because I fell in love with the work of the developers, and of the community who made me fall in love with their work as well. I'm not recommending this as self-promotion. I'm recommending it because I believe in it, love it, and can't wait to play the finished product myself. Thief in all its forms, both the original work and the best of the fan works, deserves all kinds of love from gamers, much like KOTOR, and I will always be around to tug the arms of people who like intelligent, fun games and say "Look what I found over here!" This project was a labor of pure love. Five years of blood, sweat, and tears. It is completely free, and it was meant to be enjoyed. I hope some of you folks will give it a look.

Oh my heavens, yes. I think I've gone all misty-eyed. And Bioware and Obsidian should do the characters together. Now I have gone all misty-eyed! I'd really like to see Obsidian get another chance, so I voted for them, but I would be equally as happy if Bioware did KOTOR 3. Still, put the two teams both to work on KOTOR 3 and it would not only get done faster, it would probably rock everything ever. Unless too many of the proverbial cooks would spoil the RPG, but I don't know if I've seen that happen in game development. (Edit after looking up) I see I am NOT alone. I also just would really love to see you play both PCs in KOTOR 3; that would rule.

No, dearie, it is a game. It's just not a Bioware/Obsidian RPG. It's more an exploration game than anything else, and I was referring to technical perfection, not the epitome of RPG joy. They made it what they wanted it to be, what their known audience was asking for, and didn't leave anything unfinished. The characters were unsatisfying, yes, but not unfinished. Not left without closure. The game was a worthy sequel to the series and features all the staples of it. That it wasn't your cup of tea doesn't make me any less sane or my points less valid. Also, Morrowind did have classes. How could you not notice that? I think this thread is basically about you having built Nihilus up in your mind more than anybody else did, which is fine, but leads to a lot of disagreement. Is it because he had a neat mask like Vader? Because that's deceptive. Nihilus had no personality. He was about as scary as the Vader cutout at my store. As Blaise said, total lackey. I can't get why you thought he would be better at the end, especially since he was such a wuss. Think about it--if Kreia gives you your final guidance, "Hey, Nihilus can't hurt you because he put mucho points into Force Drain but you're a wound in the Force, so just hit him twice and he'll go down," how exactly would that rule again? Because it seems to me like that would be the real boredom... going off to Malachor to squash an ant. I don't know why you want Nihilus so badly to be the end boss, other than the fact that Kreia admittedly exposited way overmuch. But that could be solved more readily by her not expositing overmuch. By the plot being executed better. By LA not rushing Obsidian. Yeah... spot-on, I think. Some closure, some kind of dealing with the emotions of your party members, sort of like the conversations between everyone on the ship towards the end of the first KOTOR after you finish the unknown planet... anything other than just holo-Bao-Dur and playing as Mira and the freaking remote. I don't want to play as them, I want to play as me, and have them be characters. Nothing makes you feel more alone than having to make up the people around you. Hey, we're geeks, we already do that in real life, we don't need to do it in a game! Oh, now that I like. That, I really like. Somebody should make a mod. Although, I don't think you should kill Nihilus; he should run away like Malak did--resurrection doesn't really work in Star Wars. Other than that, I think that's a perfect ending... so much more character potential. Obsidian, HIRE OHMA.

Now, that's the biggest joke of all. We're not getting a KOTOR 3. LA dropped the ball, but they'll probably be blaming the developers, and both OE and Bioware are moving on to other projects. There won't be a KOTOR 3. Just face it. KOTOR 2's ending was sorta off, but not because of this. Nihilus was a flat character, no real personality--he couldn't even freaking talk. Granted, all the baddies should've been stronger, and there should have been more energy in the Kreia talk... maybe some sparring in between sentences, but they didn't have time to play with anything, to tinker. They did this game in 13 damn months. That's like someone telling you to eat a gallon of ice cream in ten seconds. It's impossible. LA won't learn from this, though. They're turning into the new Eidos--a company which doesn't support its own developers, and doesn't listen to its own audience. In the long run this atittude, if it doesn't change, inevitably causes humongous losses in sales, if not the death of the publisher. They should learn from Bethesda--the whole reason they are rolling in dough now is because they took time to truly perfect Morrowind. The whole reason that Call of Cthulhu: DCotE will do well is because they let the developer for that game perfect it, but marketed the game--a more hands-off approach. If LA would let their developers polish their games the way they want, without letting them get stuck at 99% but without rushing inspiration, they would get far better returns in the long run. Maybe you don't like the way the ending went--I only partially did myself--but I bet you anything OE could've made you like it better if they'd had more slack in their choices. As a last note, I'll just say I agree with Jivin--the number one dissatisfaction I had with KOTOR 2 is the fact that the character relationships didn't have closure.

I somehow got Disciple from Mira... bleh. Not that he's bad, it's just, he really was like a brother to me. The kind of guy who, in real life, I would never be attracted to that way. But at the time, I was all happy... I was like, "Ooh, she likes him! I can set them up and not have to worry about her stealing my Atton!" Sigh. How foolish of me.