Jediphile

I don't quite think so. Like the war that Revan and Malak led against the republic, the Sith War (in which Exar Kun and Ulic Qel-Droma were the Dark Lords) was a war between the jedi order and fallen jedi of the order. Clearly Exar Kun had ties to the ancient Sith, having learned some of the secrets of Naga Sadow and Marka Ragnos, but he had no Sith empire, and his forces never had any control over the old Sith worlds, such as Korriban, Malachor V, Khar Delba, or Ziost. Since Kreia tells us that Korriban and Malachor are on the fringes of the old Sith empire, she must be referring to the empire of the ancient Sith, such as Naga Sadow, Ludo Kressh, and Marka Ragnos. They tried to invade the republic -a thousand years before the time of Exar Kun and the KotOR games, but the invasion led to defeat and the fall of their empire. This was called "the Great Hyperspace Wars" and the events are covered in the "Golden Age of the Sith" and "Fall of the Sith Empire" comic books. Look here for more information. The "true" Sith seem to be the descendants of these ancient Sith.

Actually I think that is a reference to Brianna having to fight and probably kill her Handmaiden sisters when she returns to Telos. However, that fight was also cut, though the Restoration Project will bring it back - if you check the progress reports on the RP's pages, you'll note a "Handmaiden player-controlled fight" (262TEL), which I discussed with the project on these boards a while ago, and which they speculated might be restorable. Since it appears in their progress reports, I suppose they decided to bring it back. However, if you listen to the soundfiles - 262SISEND010 to 262SISEND012 in the \StreamVoice\262\SISEND folder - you'll note Handmaiden musing over how to incapacitate opponents in a non-lethal manner, which suggests that there was to be an option to defeat the sisters without leaving them dead. Kreia will still says what she says, but then she might just be assuming that Brianna must have killed her sisters if she is still alive, since Kreia left Telos before the confrontation.

Cool. Thanks for the revelation.

Yes, I think so too. But it's an old discussion.

I know that Team Gizka is not restoring M4-78, but that there is an M4-78 Restoration Team that is. I'm wondering, though whether the two groups are coordinating their efforts, so that we'll eventually be able to play KotOR2 with both the cut content and M4-78. My apologies if this has already been asked and answered before.

Perhaps, but the tradition is different in the KotOR games - K2 certainly tried hard to take all possible outcomes of K1 into consideration. Besides, disregarding one outcome of K1 or K2 means changing the alignment and/or gender of both Revan and/or the Exile, and if you ask around on these board, you'll notice that there are vehement opposition to any of the possibilities you could mention - we seem to agree only that previous choices should be accepted, and that's probably just because that means our individual perspectives of who and what Revan and the Exile were won't be marked as 'wrong' by canon. So it will raise fan criticism to make such a choice, and I don't think the powers that be will risk that.

"Paint it Black" by Led Zeppelin (yes, I know it's originally a Stones number)

They could, I guess, but the problem with prequels is that they must be fixed plotwise, since established events dictate how events must unfold. That doesn't sound like a much of a game to me, if you think of them as interactive stories, where you decide the final outcome. I'd much rather see something like this in the KotOR comic books.

I agree. Although, because of her Force Bond with Revan, she also wants to go looking for him (in her own ship) and is a player-controlled squad leader in certain parts of the game. That is what I would like. Bastila needs to have at least as much play as Atris and probably as much as Kreia. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I agree Bastila should be a key character, but I don't think you can put her as a "master" in order, because K1 allows a DS ending where she betrays the republic with Revan. Besides, if Revan is set to DS in K2, you'll never meet Bastila except through a couple of holo-vids, where she is decidedly DS. So while I want her to be in K3, I do think it needs to take both LS and DS Bastila into consideration.

I always thought it hinted a more sinister revelation - there is a lot unrevealed secrecy about the Exile and his unusual powers, and I think this was a tie to something that might happen in K3. If it was for the reasons I think it was, then it'll be very cool IMHO.

Which IMHO is another reason for K2 favoring the LSM Exile - there are simply more romance options to discover. I find Visas is somehow more of a romantic attachment than Handmaiden, but then it might just be because I like spiting Kreia - how dare she tell me who I can and cannot get close to? And the veil makes Visas seem rather mysterious somehow. But then I'm also uncertain about where Handmaiden's feelings come from, and she seems to be so herself. It feels more like she is trying to understand her father's choice than embracing the Exile out of genuine romantic interest. Note how she mentions that she sees in the Exile something she has been searching for all her life and want to know how her mother felt, when she stood next to Yusanis. That doesn't suggest true love to me, though I can't fault her for it, since she doesn't seem to be aware of it herself.

I expected: Handmaiden: "You knew my mother?!?" Kreia: "No, Brianna. I am your mother!" Handmaiden: "NOOOooooooo!!!" [jumps into conveniently nearby bottomless pit...] :D

I agree completely regard the Leviathan and the Ravager - good references btw. But please don't mention the war basilisk in K2 - to say that it's rather a sore subject on these boards would be a bit of an understatement... More like a Pandora's box.

Yup, my thoughts exactly. The whole deal with the Nadd/Sadow confrontation still seems a bit hazy to me, but yes, Sadow was certainly long since dead at the time of Exar Kun (it was a millennium later, after all), but that's still Sadow's temple and Sadow's servants Exar Kun has to deal with to gain the title of Dark Lord. PS: To those who don't know what we're talking about, this is all from the Tales of the Jedi: The Dark Lords of the Sith comic books.

Well, three of the original companions are also companions in K2, and Carth and Bastila are both in there as well, if you put Revan as LS male. Revan is off fighting the true Sith. That's Kreia's great revelation at the end of K2, after all... And I'm fairly certain K3 will pick up on that, if it's ever made. But I wouldn't like to have Revan (or Exile) as the main character again, because that would mean playing yet *another* jedi who mysteriously loses his power and must begin over at level 1. We've done that twice in as many games, and it's getting old. I'd much rather play a young jedi who does not have extensive personal history behind him. That doesn't mean he (or she) couldn't have complex history, though. For example, the new main jedi character could be the offspring of Saul Karath or similar. Mind you, I do expect Revan and Exile to be in K3, perhaps even as eventual members of the group.

Sweet! I wonder if that means there were plans to allow the destruction of Citadel Station in the game, or whether this is just a fan-creation.

Yes, I would agree that the "source" was Kreia. I guess Kreia (whehter she is Kae or not) was exiled because even though she may have intended no harm, her teachings still violated the code and corrupted the younger jedi in the order and the masters would allow that to continue. Now, one reason why I do think Kreia is Kae is that I don't believe the reason that is mentioned for her exile, and which we learn from Kreia... Note that we never hear Disciple (or even Handmaiden) mention that Kae was exiled. Kreia tells us that the reason for Kae's exile was her child, but that seems very harsh compared to backgrounds of jedi like Jolee (who was married and trained her wife against the order of the jedi and then allowed her to fall to the dark side) or Nomi Sunrider, who also had a child and yet is counted among the greatest and most honorable jedi of her time.

I think the point here is that while Exar Kun and his followers were not "true Sith", they did have a connection to them due to Exar Kun's association with the legacies/spiritis of Freedon Nadd and Naga Sadow during his rise to Dark Lord.

What interests me is that you get the option to ask Visas to get it all. Why does the Exile want it?

Possible, yes, but then the whole build-up during K2 would fall a bit flat, I think. It seems more likely to me that Revan and the Exile will return, though not as main characters.

Not sure about Hanharr, but you can kill Visas during the confrontation with Nihilus. The odd thing is that you have to equip her with some specific items for it to work - don't ask me why. Basically strip her of all items and clothes, then let her wear standard normal clothes and a standard vibroblade (or is it a vibrosword?). Then when you get the interruption in the battle with Nihilus, you should get a new conversation option that lets you sacrifice Visas.

Yes, and it seems to me that the plot is that after a millennium, the "true" Sith are planning their revenge against the republic, which they blame for the fall of their empire. They wanted the republic weakened first, so they manipulated the Mandalorians into striking against the republic, which also caused strife inside the jedi order itself.

True, but that's actually a difficult thing to achieve unless you know how.

It seems that the "true" Sith are the descendants of the ancient Sith of the Sith empire who tried to invade the republic over a thousand years before only to be have their own empire fall when Naga Sadow and Ludo Kressh fought for control of the empire. These Sith were described in the "Golden Age of the Sith" and "Fall of the Sith Empire" comic books. Naga Sadow, Ludo Kressh and Marka Ragnos were all powerful dark lords of that period, but we haven't heard anything about them since their empire fell. Note that K2 has several references this (mainly from Kreia), such as... "Korriban is a graveyard world of the ancient Sith Empire." "The ancient Sith are the ones who erected the mighty statues and temples on Korriban's surface. Where Korriban's masters are now is unknown. " "You must go where Revan did, into the Unknown Regions, where the Sith, the true Sith, wait in the dark for the great war that comes." "It is because he remembered what lay buried here - this place, its teachings. It paved the way to Korriban, you know, the remnants here. And he came because Malachor, like Korriban, lies on the fringes of the ancient Sith Empire, where the true Sith wait for us, in the dark." Sure sounds like a set-up for a K3 to me...

I thought this topic was about Fallout, not BG.