Jediphile

I always thought it hinted a more sinister revelation - there is a lot unrevealed secrecy about the Exile and his unusual powers, and I think this was a tie to something that might happen in K3. If it was for the reasons I think it was, then it'll be very cool IMHO.

Which IMHO is another reason for K2 favoring the LSM Exile - there are simply more romance options to discover. I find Visas is somehow more of a romantic attachment than Handmaiden, but then it might just be because I like spiting Kreia - how dare she tell me who I can and cannot get close to? And the veil makes Visas seem rather mysterious somehow. But then I'm also uncertain about where Handmaiden's feelings come from, and she seems to be so herself. It feels more like she is trying to understand her father's choice than embracing the Exile out of genuine romantic interest. Note how she mentions that she sees in the Exile something she has been searching for all her life and want to know how her mother felt, when she stood next to Yusanis. That doesn't suggest true love to me, though I can't fault her for it, since she doesn't seem to be aware of it herself.

I expected: Handmaiden: "You knew my mother?!?" Kreia: "No, Brianna. I am your mother!" Handmaiden: "NOOOooooooo!!!" [jumps into conveniently nearby bottomless pit...] :D

I agree completely regard the Leviathan and the Ravager - good references btw. But please don't mention the war basilisk in K2 - to say that it's rather a sore subject on these boards would be a bit of an understatement... More like a Pandora's box.

Yup, my thoughts exactly. The whole deal with the Nadd/Sadow confrontation still seems a bit hazy to me, but yes, Sadow was certainly long since dead at the time of Exar Kun (it was a millennium later, after all), but that's still Sadow's temple and Sadow's servants Exar Kun has to deal with to gain the title of Dark Lord. PS: To those who don't know what we're talking about, this is all from the Tales of the Jedi: The Dark Lords of the Sith comic books.

Well, three of the original companions are also companions in K2, and Carth and Bastila are both in there as well, if you put Revan as LS male. Revan is off fighting the true Sith. That's Kreia's great revelation at the end of K2, after all... And I'm fairly certain K3 will pick up on that, if it's ever made. But I wouldn't like to have Revan (or Exile) as the main character again, because that would mean playing yet *another* jedi who mysteriously loses his power and must begin over at level 1. We've done that twice in as many games, and it's getting old. I'd much rather play a young jedi who does not have extensive personal history behind him. That doesn't mean he (or she) couldn't have complex history, though. For example, the new main jedi character could be the offspring of Saul Karath or similar. Mind you, I do expect Revan and Exile to be in K3, perhaps even as eventual members of the group.

Sweet! I wonder if that means there were plans to allow the destruction of Citadel Station in the game, or whether this is just a fan-creation.

Yes, I would agree that the "source" was Kreia. I guess Kreia (whehter she is Kae or not) was exiled because even though she may have intended no harm, her teachings still violated the code and corrupted the younger jedi in the order and the masters would allow that to continue. Now, one reason why I do think Kreia is Kae is that I don't believe the reason that is mentioned for her exile, and which we learn from Kreia... Note that we never hear Disciple (or even Handmaiden) mention that Kae was exiled. Kreia tells us that the reason for Kae's exile was her child, but that seems very harsh compared to backgrounds of jedi like Jolee (who was married and trained her wife against the order of the jedi and then allowed her to fall to the dark side) or Nomi Sunrider, who also had a child and yet is counted among the greatest and most honorable jedi of her time.

I think the point here is that while Exar Kun and his followers were not "true Sith", they did have a connection to them due to Exar Kun's association with the legacies/spiritis of Freedon Nadd and Naga Sadow during his rise to Dark Lord.

What interests me is that you get the option to ask Visas to get it all. Why does the Exile want it?

Possible, yes, but then the whole build-up during K2 would fall a bit flat, I think. It seems more likely to me that Revan and the Exile will return, though not as main characters.

Not sure about Hanharr, but you can kill Visas during the confrontation with Nihilus. The odd thing is that you have to equip her with some specific items for it to work - don't ask me why. Basically strip her of all items and clothes, then let her wear standard normal clothes and a standard vibroblade (or is it a vibrosword?). Then when you get the interruption in the battle with Nihilus, you should get a new conversation option that lets you sacrifice Visas.

Yes, and it seems to me that the plot is that after a millennium, the "true" Sith are planning their revenge against the republic, which they blame for the fall of their empire. They wanted the republic weakened first, so they manipulated the Mandalorians into striking against the republic, which also caused strife inside the jedi order itself.

True, but that's actually a difficult thing to achieve unless you know how.

It seems that the "true" Sith are the descendants of the ancient Sith of the Sith empire who tried to invade the republic over a thousand years before only to be have their own empire fall when Naga Sadow and Ludo Kressh fought for control of the empire. These Sith were described in the "Golden Age of the Sith" and "Fall of the Sith Empire" comic books. Naga Sadow, Ludo Kressh and Marka Ragnos were all powerful dark lords of that period, but we haven't heard anything about them since their empire fell. Note that K2 has several references this (mainly from Kreia), such as... "Korriban is a graveyard world of the ancient Sith Empire." "The ancient Sith are the ones who erected the mighty statues and temples on Korriban's surface. Where Korriban's masters are now is unknown. " "You must go where Revan did, into the Unknown Regions, where the Sith, the true Sith, wait in the dark for the great war that comes." "It is because he remembered what lay buried here - this place, its teachings. It paved the way to Korriban, you know, the remnants here. And he came because Malachor, like Korriban, lies on the fringes of the ancient Sith Empire, where the true Sith wait for us, in the dark." Sure sounds like a set-up for a K3 to me...

I thought this topic was about Fallout, not BG.

What I find interesting about Nihilus' mask plotwise is that it seems to end up in the hands of the Exile.

Kae was thought to have died, but strangely her body was never recovered. Isn't it rather odd that they found her robes (which Handmaiden wears) but not her body? Unless, of course, she abandoned her jedi robes for some reason... As for Kavar, what was actually said was this: Kavar: "I thought you had died in the Mandalorian Wars..." Kreia: "Die? No - became stronger, yes." Open to interpretation, but to me "in" means "participating in the war" more than "duirng the time of the war", since if it had been the latter, Kavar would simply have said, "I though you had during the Mandalorian Wars..." Besides, if Kreia is Kae, it ties very nicely how she fought in the war and then found the Trayus Academy once it was over, doesn't it? Sure, you could argue that Kae died and Kreia arrived on Malachor V shortly after to find the academy, but that's a pretty big coincidence...

Mical was a hopeful padawan (youngling?) at the time, so he certainly would have first hand experience of what was going on in the jedi circles at the very time when Kreia was exiled, so the chances are good that he would be able to tell the Exile things that Kreia doesn't want the Exile to know about. Of course, we could then argue that the Exile should remember himself, but then there are indications that the Exile's memory is also compromised by Kreia's manipulation - I always wondered when she said that she didn't alter my memory, but that I wouldn't know if she had... Besides, the Exile left the jedi order with Revan, leaving Mical behind, so Mical would have been there to experience some things that the Exile didn't, especially when you consider that Mical has since been studying jedi history for the Republic. He may have found out far more than Kreia would have liked him to. There are several factors that suggest this is the case, and none of the nay-sayers have been able to conclusively prove that she is not - and let me assure that it's not for a lack of trying!

Don't know if she's my favorite on the show - Adama is pretty complex - but she sure is funny: "You should leave - I'm getting an urge to strike another superior ****" :D

And yet a basis that Lucas has revised. Don't get me wrong - I hate the "Greedo shoots first"-idea too, since it takes away from some of the defining characteristics of Han Solo, but Lucas decided to change, so his revision is canon now, not the original... Yes, I agree that this sucks. Fair enough, but I've been watching that long as well, and I completely disagree.

Oh, I agree that Kreia is indeed Kae for that reason. Or as Garak would put it, "I believe in coincidences. Coincidences happen every day. But I don't trust coincidences!" <_< Still, it's not proof, just circumstantial evidence. What really convinces me more than anything is how the "Kreia is NOT Kae"-crowd refuse to even consider those observations even if we admit that it's not proof. That reaction suggests to me that people disagree mainly because they don't like the idea of evil-old-hag Kreia being nice-innocent-little Handmaiden's mother, which really isn't an argument at all - the truth is rarely pretty.

Personally I long for a game where someone in authority identifies your character as "the chosen one" and makes it public knowledge only to then later have it revealed to the player that it's just a hoax to raise hope in the future among the population, and the main character was "chosen" only because it was really convenient at the time...

If we're to look for an explanation, I suppose we'd have to look at the state the Ebon Hawk was in after the Sith attack during the prologue of the game - it was pretty banged up with large holes, yet it still made it to Peragus. The Ebon Hawk was probably still badly damaged during the LS ending, but I guess the logic is that if the whole planet is falling apart, then you take your chance and see whether the bloody thing will hang together and be spaceworthy enough to save your hide. Bao-Dur may or may not have been dead (the Ebon Hawk being able to fly again would suggest he did indeed survive), but then T3 repaired the Ebon Hawk enough to make it to Peragus all by himself during the prologue. I imagine a banged up Ebon Hawk with huge holes in it and where only force fields that make large parts of the ship unavailable to the crew during its final escape from Malachor V.

I don't see how you can speak for that group in general. I, for one, would like to say that this is not the case for me, since I always considered the comic books that Marvel put out at the time as canon. The Thrawn trilogy (novels) and the Dark Empire comic books came later (around 92), but they're better than most of the Marvel stuff and were just as much canon to me. I don't think that's right either. The only one who can okay new films is Lucas, and he's got enough cash as it is - he really didn't need to make the prequel trilogy just to make some fast $$. The prequel trilogy can be criticised for many things, but I don't think this is one of them. We've yet to establish that. I don't think the various authors and artists involved in Star Wars novels and comics over the last few decades see themselves as "fans". Some of them are professional people. Aaron Allston (who wrote some of the X-Wing novels) was a professional D&D game designer for years and still highly respected for much of the work he did at the time, for example. Pardon me, but do you mean to sound elistist? If you like only the original movies, then that's fine, but it's still just an opinion - it doesn't mean that all other Star Wars is low quality by definition.