Jediphile

Addendum: I shall hasten to acknowlege before irate MMO fans chase me with figurative torches and pitchforks (if they have not already) that the above is not necessarily an objective opinion about KotOR on my part. There are reasons why each paragraph of the eulogy is written entirely in quotation marks. Suffice it to say that the relevance can be taken to the KotOR or MMORPG topics. This topic is an expression of my sorrow that there will not be a direct sequel to KotOR. As such it is neither logical or objective, nor is it meant to be. And naturally my points above can in no meaningful way be taken seriously. Sorrow and emotions cannot be argued rationally, so please don't demand that they do. If you do not wish to offer your condolances, then that is fine, but please show respect for the dead and for the sorrow some of us might feel.

A eulogy to KotOR: "We are gathered here to lay to rest the immersive, epic player experience named Knights of the Old Republic, or simply 'KotOR', as we "Kotorians" have affectionately come to call it." "But I shall not begin this eulogy by speaking perfection about our beloved and departed KotOR. Like all things in existence, KotOR had its flaws and challenges. Its first incarnation was a work a beauty, highly polished and enticing, and in that it made up for its lack of originality, since it was derivative of its origins, the original Star Wars movie trilogy and earlier plots by Bioware. The second incarnation was the exact opposite - it was a highly original plot with intense and deep characters, but was scarred by the unpolished and incomplete consequence of a rushed and premature birth, with left a mark on it that is seen until this day." "But in spite of their flaws, or perhaps because of them, we loved KotOR. Perhaps because the flaws left us in the hopeful for the future. For if a third KotOR could have the original plot of the second as well as the polish and finish of the first, would it not be a marvel and beauty of perfection for us all to see and enjoy? We thought so. We hoped. We dared to dream." "Alas, it was not to be. On thusday 21. october 2008, KotOR lost its struggle with persistent MMORPG rumors, as previously suggested in july by Electronic Arts CEO John Riccitiello, after he declared the experience dead in an interview with portfolio.com, which can be seen here. Gone is the epic experience, the rich characters, the deep background, the strong storytelling. All put down too soon before its time had come. Farewell KotOR. We shall miss you." "Where now shall we find the richness of your plots, the depth of your storytelling, the uniqueness of your single-player experience? It is all lost now, like tears in the rain. We would cry if we had but tears left to shed. Our sorrow seems to know no depth, our loss seemingly unbearable and knowing no boundaries, and it is only through forced logic and words of comfort that we can look to the future in the vain hope that a new day will dawn, where we can believe that the despair of this tragedy will not threaten to engulf us. Only by remembering the words of Kreia that you spoke to us can we remember that apathy is death, for surely that is the feeling that overpowers us now, as the dark side beckons to us with the promise of release from our torment. For you alone, KotOR, shall we resist, since that is what you would have wanted. That is your legacy to us, which we shall now forever endeavour to be worthy of." "We shall overcome. We shall be triumphant in the knowledge that one day, we shall learn to endure your loss. But we shall not forget. We shall remember you always and look to the day when your legacy will again inspire our lives with the hope of new experiences worthy of your legacy. It may be a long time, and by then many who embrace the experience of powerful storytelling and immersive single-player depth may not even know who you ever were. Those of us Kotorians who remain by then shall tell them, for the triumph of that day shall undoubtedly be yours. So be at peace, KotOR. You may rest certain in the knowledge, that we shall neither forget you, nor keep your discs far from our machines or, indeed, our hearts." Knights of the Old Republic. 2003-2008. Taken from us too young and too soon. You shall be remembered. You shall be missed "In conclusion, I shall acknowledge that the moderators restrict all discussion of KotOR to the specific topic. Consequently this topic will likely be closed shortly. It is fitting that it thus dies with KotOR. There is nothing more..."

Revan vs. Nihilus = Revan is Nihilus' pet chew toy

Yes he did, that's why he's deactivated when you find him - Revan deactivated him so he couldn't follow him. We don't know that for a fact, but HK-47 speculates that is the case during one of the conversations, and it fits well with what we know of Revan's disappearance.

It's Darth Sion, not "Scion". I've considered the possibility that Lucien might be Sion for a time, since they both seem to have the same sort of unbending devotion to their cause and the same harsh look and behavior. But it seems the "Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide" establishes Sion as a marauder from the Old Sith War, in which case there is no possibility that Lucien is Sion. Haven't seen the book myself, but if this is true, then Lucien is definitely not Sion.

It should be in the list of combat options for force powers that appears just over your target. Always worked for me, though I hardly ever used it (and so gave it to Kreia rather than take it for the exile).

Seems to be confirmed now, since Haazen speaks of it to Zayne in issue 32: "But we have you, Zayne Carrick - and your special relationship with the force. Yes, I know of that. Sudden reversals of fortune are your business." Seems like the writers, John Jackson Miller, decided to give the character the force-equivalent of a "get-out-of-jail-free"-card. Useful for a protagonist Massive conflict on Coruscant right during the Mandalorian Wars in issue 32, though. The jedi covenant of seers is exposed and explodes into a virtual war between the jedi following the jedi council and those loyal to the covenant. It seems a little over the top, somehow. I mean, how can something that huge take place during the Mandalorian Wars - just before Revan splits the order, and yet nobody ever mentions it in K1 or TSL? I sense potential canon plot conflict, I fear... I'd have thought a smaller confrontation that the council would then sweep under the carpet and declare a dirty little secret, but the scale seems to massive now, unless the author is willing to do some major damage control on the council's behalf...

Well, short version is that there will be an awful lot of reference back to the first two games, if a single-player K3 is ever made. Just that it'll be KotOR3 alone means it's part of a series, so if they do it, it's best to bite the bullet and get into it. But I suspect they'd solve the problem - to the extent that it is one - in the same way they did in TSL. Simply have an early game where the events of the previous games and the roles Revan and exile played in them are referenced from several angles, since that makes it worthwhile to both new and returning players - new players learn what went before ahead of the inevitable closure to the stories of Revan, exile and the True Sith, while returning players get to see events they played through described from characters who experienced them, and that's always interesting, even - perhaps especially - if those characters' perceptions of said events are incorrect. I love it in TSL if a character says, "Revan did so and so", while I shake my head and think "no, you fool, you got it all wrong," like when you get to confirm or correct Atton about Revan's alignment and gender.

Yes, almost. Interesting that nothing much has happened or even been said about this, isn't it? After all, it was the CEO of EA who allegedly talked about the MMO, not representatives of LA or Bioware (though I suppose we can argue Riccitiello is the latter to some extent...). I have this pet theory that they had put something, anything out on that site only because somebody noticed the name lucasartsbioware.com had been registered.

Erm, yes... That's why I said something had changed...

If they loved the setting, why did they refuse to do KotOR2 when asked to and instead suggested Obsidian do the sequel? I think they wanted to break into the MMO business where the big bucks of monthly subscription fees are, and with a Star Wars stamp on it, they would be sure to have at least some success with it. Because they couldn't care less about working on license games anymore? That's all reason they needed Yes, I know that Bioware said back then they wanted to work on their own IP, but if that was the reason, then why are they working on a Star Wars project now? Somehow that doesn't quite add up. Something has changed there.

To be fair, I think so too, since the deal between LA and Bioware was made before EA bought Bioware, if memory serves me correctly. If that is the case, then EA did not push anything. If they loved the setting, why did they refuse to do KotOR2 when asked to and instead suggested Obsidian do the sequel? I think they wanted to break into the MMO business where the big bucks of monthly subscription fees are, and with a Star Wars stamp on it, they would be sure to have at least some success with it.

Well, that part of the game is notoriously bugged. Something frequently goes wrong with it, though I must say your problem is far worse than any I've heard of before. Usually it's during or just after actually meeting the masters things go wrong, and if I run into a problem, I can usually just reload from an earlier save and encounter no problems. But since you've doubtlessly tried that already and your game crashes rather than continue with some bugs, I'm not sure what you can do. Hopefully someone else can. Sorry.

#1 was a terrible movie. I have no idea why they needed #2. What's next? Battlefield Earth 2? Yes, but the slave girls were hotter than in Conan the Barbarian Well, Alicia Silverstone looked searingly hot in that body-tight latex Batgirl costume in "Batman & Robin", but I'd still call that a terrible movie despite liking Batman.

Well, the "silent majority" is a thankful audience, because they will always support the speaker. It's an old politician's trick to speak for the silent majority. For one thing, it gives him power because he represents a majority that has no voice, and second because they will never tell him his assumption about their opinions is wrong - if someone did they would naturally not be silent and thus cannot belong to the silent majority that he represents. But it's always wrong to invoke the silent majority in support of your position, because nobody can know what the silent majority wants. Any of us can safely claim that the silent majority supports our own position on any matter, because it will never tell us otherwise. But doing so is wrong, because the silent majority has chosen to be silent and not have their voices heard. It's like an election - if you stay at home and don't use your right to vote, then you accept and lose your right to complain about who is elected by those who did vote. We may be a minority here, but we are the people who decided to show up and vote, so it is our voices that should count. And the silent majority will accept whatever the outcome will be. They're silent, after all, and so won't be complaining, while the vocal fanbase will be first to or any new game on public boards.

Agreed. If people like MMOs, fine. They're welcome to them, but I still don't enjoy them. What I don't get is why an MMO would focus on KotOR, which has so far supported SPRPGs and has been successful at it. Even TSL made good money despite its incomplete status. On that basis alone a single-player KotOR3 would seem to me to be an excuse to print money. If it ain't broken, don't fix it. Now, could a new Star Wars MMO work? Sure it could. There are successful MMOs out there. Galaxies has not done so well, so a new Star Wars MMO might not be such a terrible idea. But why it would be linked to KotOR escapes me. Sure, KotOR is successful, but for single-player CRPGs, which is a different beast altogether, just as classic Call of Cthulhu adventures like "Masks of Nyarlathotep" or "Walker in the Wastes" are nothing like HeroQuest or the hack 'n slash/dungeon crawl of D&D 4e, though they can all be classified as tabletop RPGs. The former adventures are entirely focused on plot and character development, while the latter focuses on monster-slashing and treasure-finding. Besides, for a good setting to place a Star Wars MMO in, you need one that is not too "locked" by estalished canonic events and - given the preference people have for playing jedi or sith - a time when both of those are numerous. KotOR fits neither of those criteria, because a lot has been established about the age in the Tales of the Jedi comic books, the KotOR comic books, and the two games. The sith are also virtually gone in the time between the end of the Old Sith War and when Revan turns to the dark side during the Mandalorian Wars. And by the end of TSL, the jedi are virtually extinct. Of course, you could then set it 100 or 200 years later, but I wouldn't call that KotOR, though it's still obviously the Old Republic. And then there is the fanbase of the games themselves. Raise your hand if you played KotOR games precisely because it was single-player, then raise it again if you don't play MMOs. I know I'd raise my hand both times. What? I$n't it obviou$ what attract$ them?

#1 was a terrible movie. I have no idea why they needed #2. What's next? Battlefield Earth 2?

I like T3 over the others in TSL. Don't much care about the lightsaber colours. Silver and viridian are nice, but it really doesn't matter - I use whatever is convenient (except red). And I prefer light side powers. Now, Force Storm may be nice, but I certainly don't favour it over LS powers. Nope. Perish the thought. I'm a good little light-sider. No lure of the dark side here...

So not enjoying MMOs and saying so equals being childish? That's pretty offensive. "People who don't like MMOs are childish, and I can't help it if you don't like MMOs". Yup, classic definition of trolling right there.

Please mention one comment I have made where I'm actually making the argument that anyone is threatening my enjoyment of MMOs. Well, if you post stuff like this... ... then you're either inferring it, or else you're stating your own opinion over and at the expense of someone else's, which seems rather impolite to me. Did jodo cast 5 insist that you or anyone else needs to conform to his way of thinking? No, he didn't. He just stated his opinion. But you inferred it and then voiced criticism of that, basically accusing him of something he hadn't done. Such as? Guild wars? Some obscure Korean MMO? I'm really interested btw. Guild Wars is not a free MMO, it just doesn't have a monthly fee. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_free_MMOGs

Please mention one person here who has said you're not allowed to enjoy MMOs.

Say, isn't MMORPG a contradiction in terms? I mean, can you even have role-playing in MMOs? Not that I've ever seen or heard of it

That's how I feel. Seems you're allowed to say it and stand by it without being repeatedly deleted by the mods. Unlike me.

I remember seeing that submarine periscope scene. Not sure where, but I have seen it. I thought he took off his belt and used that on the periscope! Maybe not, been a long time. Possibly from the comic book adapatation, since they included the scene there.

I'm split between whether that statement is more insulting or just untrue. However, given how much I dislike it when people try to infer that they know better than I do what I'll do in the future, I'll probably go with the former