Jediphile

Mandalorian leader: "Halt! Nobody walks this jungle without the permission of Mandalore. You will lay down your weapons and follow us to our camp!" HK-47: "Mocking threat: I see dead people..."

HK-47: "Statement: I am the HK-47 unit. Your meatbag life, as you know it, is over. Lower your shield and surrender your meatbag jedi. Resistance is futile!"

Just read through the KotOR3 plot suggestion posted by Swinny ages ago. I like how the ending plays out, especially how Revan uses his power to save Bastila and the Exile then uses his to save them both while the new main jedi character fights the final battle with the main villain. Parts 1 and 2 are somewhat forgettable where plot is concerned, though, and I find it less satisfying how Revan and Exile just jump into the story a bit conveniently - finding them should be more of a quest, I think, but generally Swinny has good flair for dialogue.

ROTFL Gold!

TSF droid: "I'm sorry to inform you that your ship, the Ebon Hawk, has been stolen. I'm afraid there is nothing else I can do..." Exile: "I want that ship - not excuses!"

Funny, seems we all like this "my own" system best 400+ replies and counting and 28 pages This topic has become rather larger than I thought when it began - the PnP forum tends to be one of the quieter forums here, so I guess it's safe to say that people have issues with d20... And I should probably change my name here to Frankenstein, since I've created a monster! - "It's alive - IT'S ALIVE!!"

Seconded! "Leroy, you are just stupid as Hell..."

Hey, I'd go for that in a second - I hate the stupid classes. I just don't think it will happen given that KotOR uses semi-d20, and there might be legal reasons too, since WOTC owns the RPG, and if we have to live with the classes, then establishing why they tend to use different lightsaber colors might not be so bad. I would suggest the modifiers to be exceedingly limited. They shouldn't affect anything in combat at all, though they might give a +1 to one of the saving throws or so - that's useful without being powerful. Or certain colors could tend toward one direction, but still be different, like one green crystal could a greater bonus than another green crystal, but still modify the same thing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Can anyone confirm or deny whether this has any effect on the ending and if so what?

Or an alternate to the above: Kreia: "Are psychotic urges all that drives you?" [Exile punches her out] Exile: "Does that answer your question?"

Oh yeah - forgot about that one. Strange considering the rest, though... But then maybe it was before Lucas went all noble and cut the Han-shooting-Greedo scene and so... Still, that severed arm is still in the special edition - even on the DVD. Maybe, but I really think that would be a silly argument. I mean, if they don't want violence, then who do they let Mace cut off Jango's head and so? What, it's fine in the movies, but not in the games? Odd...

Ohhh.. Is *that* what this is? All this time I thought I was in the basketweaving forum... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That's okay - I came to learn how to build a kayak...

Fun, though not RPG - this is the PnP board, remember? But still good fun - thanks for the link.

Well, yes and no. Dual-classing is similar to multi-classes, but it's still not the same - there are advantages and disadvantages to either. The problem with dual class is that you have to decide in advance how far you want to take it, and once you reach that point, you can go no further in that class. And then you basically start over with a new class from scratch... The players I've know really would consider it if they were allowed to build characters with a good number of levels (7+) and much experience, so that they could arrange it so that they would begin play already being higher level in the new class than the old. When I told them that I wouldn't allow them to circumvent the one major disadvantage a dual-classed character must take in order to reap the benefits, they simply chose not to play them at all... Fair enough, but I think the archetypes are still too restrictive, given that the archetypes are just formed by stories that people weave. I think it becomes a circle, where AD&D has no gnomish mages because they don't exist. Yet they can't exist because AD&D has no gnomish mages, so you'd have to bend the rules (at which point I would consider AD&D to no longer be truly used anymore). <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The classes are too restrictive in (A)D&D, yes, but the archetypes cannot be said to be restrictive - archetypes simply are. Whether you adhere to them or not in a story is your own choosing, but it's difficult to deny that they do have signficance in our literary history of fairy tales and fantasy and the culture that emerges from that. Most D&D worlds choose to embrace those archetypes because they are familiar to the audience - rangers seemed to have the ability to use crystal balls in 1e simply because Aragorn could use a palantir in "Return of the King", for example, so that had to go into the rules. Is that a restrictive archetype or is it simply adhering to the literary heritage of fantasy? But as new stories are written, the rules will change. Willow didn't quite become popular enough to allow halflings to be wizards, but it might have been. Besides, I find it much easier to have restrictive rules in these cases and then overrule them as GM than the other way around - it's difficult to argue to players that something is not allowed when the rules say that it is, but giving express permission on a case-by-case basis is simple and easy. You want gnomish wizards in your campaign, then go ahead - lift the ban. Heck, I've thought about having a half-orc paladin in my AD&D campaign simply because it would be such an unusual novelty. The point is, however, that it wouldn't be if half-orcs were permitted in general. A halfling wizard is special because halflings are not supposed to be wizards. Same thing with half-orcish paladins. If you lift that restriction then you also make such unique characters common and boring.

Kreia: "Are psychotic urges all that drives you?" Evil Exile: "Talk to the hand!"

WoD also has three divisions among the traits, though they are physical, mental and social. In the system I was planning I just had two devisions - physical and mental. Somehow it served better to demonstrate the duality of life (as in mind and matter). I had six in each group and they were corresponding to each other, at least to some degree. For example, while Stregth was physical power, Intellect was mental power, while Health was physical stability and Willpower mental stability. Didn't work as a mirror all the way though, but it was pretty close. What are spiritual attributes and what do they do, though?

Statistically something like that is bound to happen on occasion, though half a dozen times is indeed unusual to say the least. I once played a wizard who had just reached 5th level in D&D (Greyhawk) and begun casting fireballs. The second fireball he cast came up with all 6s on all five dice! Our GM was so surprised he asked me to roll again just to see that I hadn't tricked him. Then he accepted the first roll

Not a bad idea, really. If KotOR games are going to enforce the idea of specific lightsaber colors being more or less tied to specific classes (green for consular, blue for guardian, red for Sith, etc.), and I think it's safe to say that it will, then it would be better to establish a reason why a certain group always seems to favor one color lightsaber over another. It makes more sense than the idea that you can always tell a jedi by his lightsaber color, which makes no sense and is just stupid. You'd have to be careful what you choose, though. I cannot assign a bonus to red sabers that jedi migth like, for example, because that would just prompt jedi to use red sabers as well, and we know that they don't. Green crystals should also give bonus to something relevant to Luke Skywalker, since the saber he made himself was green.

Sorry. It's a pet peeve with me and I got carried away. My bad :"> No wait - AD&D made me do it! :cool: I think the reason is that gnomes are typically seen as tricksters and deceivers in fantasy and not so much as powerful wizards like Gandalf or Merlin. So it wouldn't quite fit the archetype, and D&D is all about archetypes. Well, if your point is that the multi/dual-class system in 2e is flawed, then I'm scarcely about to disagree. This is one area where I actually think that 3e is better. But it's still in the 2e rules that humans cannot multi-class, so the AD&D 'racism' does go both ways, at least.

One note about dismemberment by lightsaber in Star Wars is that it does seem to be completely bloodless. Did we see blood when Luke lost his hand? Did Qui-Gon bleed from his fatal wound? Did blood burst from Darth Maul, when he was carved in two? Did Anakin bleed when Dooku cut off his arm? Did Jango Fett bleed when Mace cut his head off, or did Mace bleed when his hand was cut? The answer to all of the above is no. The only time we might argue it is for Darth Maul, since there was sort of a red flash when he was struck, but we saw no actual blood when he fell and was separated in two. I seem to recall that one player in a Star Wars RPG I played argued that this was because lightsabers cauterize the wounds that they leave behind automatically - they are so energetic that they simply burn the wound shut instantaneously. I think that's in the rules for lightsabers somewhere, though I haven't seen it myself.

Agreed. After all, aren't sequels mandatory? :D Still, in this case there must be a sequel, or it would be like doing ESB without ROTJ...

While you're perfectly entitled to your opinion, no, you're not right in general. I have written extensive house rules for my AD&D campaign and revised them endless times. And my conclusion is that it is an exercise in futility, since the game will never have the options and variety that it should. It's simply easier to throw the whole thing out and try something else. That's not as easy as it may sound like, though. After all, writing extensive house rules of many, many pages and revising them several times means that I have a lot of time invested in the game. To abandon it is to let all my hard work to *make* the system work regardless of how flawed it was go to waste. That makes it hard to turn over a new page and start from scratch. I'm there now, though. I'm determined to drop AD&D totally and completely when the current campaign ends, which may be sooner than planned. Trouble is, what will I play instead... GURPS has some promise, but also some problems, and a new set of house rules is something I want to avoid like the plague... Maybe I'll try some Ars Magica for a while. That has an excellent magic system (instead of all those annoying AD&D spell descriptions)...

Agreed. I hate that in AD&D. I want to *make* characters. But in AD&D there is a tendency for players to roll and then see what they can get away with... Now, play fair - it's somehow just too easy to accuse D&D of roll-playing with its heavy focus on monster-slashing (hack'n slash) and dungeon-crawl, but it's still a role-playing game, and even the original. And some of the adventures are just good RPG. Take Mystara's "B10: Night's Dark Terror" or Greyhawk's "Fate of Istus", for example

Well, I've been an AD&D GM (or DM, if you prefer) for 15+ years, and I agree with him. Your mileage may vary...

I'd agree with you for OD&D, but not AD&D, since there are still lots of options to choose between in AD&D. Which spell should the wizard take (I *hate* all the D&D spells - has anybody ever read them all?), which spheres should the priest take, and which god allows them? Where should the thief focus his percentages, and which weapons should the warrior take specialization/mastery with? And once you're through that, you get to choose proficiencies... That can easily take an hour or more. The options can seem overwhelming in skill-based games, but then that's why you have templates that you can modify from. Try taking a look, if you don't believe me. But there is a big difference between a template and a fixed class. A template is just an example, and you can change things around pretty much as you like. You cannot do that with a class, since all the major choices are made for you when you commit to one - the warrior will not be learning wizard spells, the wizard cannot heal wounds, etc.