Volourn

I take everything back. You guys are 100% right. i found 100% proof that games make people kill... Look below: "The affidavits say the couple argued after she confronted him July 18. After Lori went to bed, Mark Hacking stayed up late playing video games for an hour. Then, sorting through his belongings, he found his rifle, went into the bedroom and shot his wife, according to investigators."

"while violence in games, however fictional, is still violence." No, it isn't. Violence is about hurting living creatures. No one actually gets hurt in a game ebcause it's all pixels. It's not real. To even try to claim that killing someone in game = killing someone in RL or is even close to it is silly. It's not violence; just like if your character has a girlfriend in game does not mean you have a girlfriend in RL. "Uh... so how exactly does the ability to rape, the ability to slaughter children with a minigun, the ability to abuse your wife boost your enjoyment of games?" Uh... so how exactly does the ability to kill countless monsters, become the uber violent maker, or anything else you do boost your enjoyment of games? It's real simple. It's all about about atmosphere. It's all about being a part of the game world. If I'm gonna get the option to play an evil bad ass in a game; and be allowed to kill whatever; why put some fake blockage on the evil character. Afterall, the evil character shouldn't have should forced morals in the game. That hurts the game, and saves no one in RL. In essence, why do we play games anyways? That's your answer. Bottom line is just because one kills, rapes, or murders in a game does not mean they are goingt o kill, rape, or murder in RL. There is absolutely no connection.

Sometimes, you have to bebrutal to get the point across. Subtlety don't work on 'Netters.

"What I'm wondering about is the absolute conviction that some of you seem to have." It's the internet. Everything is in extremes. "No, I never said that. Don't put words in my mouth" Of course not. There is no speaking here hence I put now words in your mouth. That said, 'tis noted. "Reporting hardly matters here, as the folks responsible for further actions tend to check the reason for the complaint. The posts which are relevant, I mean." The mods here are perfect. They will do what is just, and they can see that Mkreku flamed me personally unprovoked. I'm only guilty of replying in kind because I believe in self defense.

"Can you disprove anything that has been said so far? Anything that will absolutely negate any claims that violent video games can be responsible, as inspiration, catalyst, anything, for any possible real life violence." Already have. Every instance in which a game has been blamed for violence the perpetrator had other more major problems than the fact that he happened to play a silly game. Every single one. That may be 'circumstanstial'; but it's the best way to prove a negative. You, and others make the accusation that games are evil little parasites that create little monster rapists and murderers eyt give no proof, and why? Because, it cna't be proven. That's why. Mkreku the Troll:"Now, explain to me how this incredibly moronic discussion is on topic and I might not have to report you for derailing yet another thread." Report me for derialment and I'll report you for derailment, flaming, and posting just to attack another poster and not to truly post on the topic. My inital posts in this topic were all on topic until you should up just to launch your latest crusade against Evil 'Ol Me. So, while youa re making threats to report me; I am reporting you.

No proof yet? Oh well, keep up the spinning wheels, fellows. It's very sad. And, yo, Mkreku, your post reeks of Black & White. Look in the mirror next time. At least SP's post (in this case) isn't full of hypocrisy. "Haha, the Neverwinter Nights fanboi is trying to use a game against me" DL = Hated, highly criticized game (except by you even though you arne't fully behind besides your pre release pimping of game) that seems to have been a financial dissapointment. NWN = Million + seller, still going strong after 3+ years, a gaurnateed seller of a sequel, many hardcore fans, and maybe 3 detractors using differnet names to repeat the same 'ol retarded, hypocritcal bashings. No contest. I win. NWN > DL. Game over. For DL, at least.

Proof please. No proof, and I'll just have to laugh at the non existence of gamers turned murderers because of games. 3 mil+ GTA players yet how many GTA players commited heinous crimes BECAUSE of GTA and not other problems? ZERO. Game over.

"Life must be easy for the completely ignorant." Says the one who likes Dungeon Lord. That makes your opinion worthless. "Seeking to absolve them just because is no better than trying to blame them for every social ill that occurs." Just give me one example of someone playing a game then going allw acko without them having a REAL problem like drugs, family problems, bullies, or some other emotional/intellectual fingadoo than I think you'd have a point. However, you cna't so this point is moot. "If you believe that nurture plays a part in social development" Learned socially. Games aren't include din that. Families, friends, any othe rimportant human figures in someone's life; not some silly game or movie. Games do not make people rape, murder, and commit other heinous crimes. Period. This is undisputable.

"And equally there are players who abslutely thrive on being as evil as they can." So let 'em. It doesn't mean they're gonna commit rape in RL. That's just dumb. Games do not make rapist, murderers, or whatever heinous crime. Nor, do they make people into Little Angels tm. Morals like that are learned socially and part of someone's 'inherent' persoanlity. It's not taken from a game. Period.

"There was no rule stating Planescape is part of the Forgotten Realms" That is because PS was never a part of the Realms. The Realms are a part of PS. "With 3.0 and 3.5 d&d editions the planescape setting was removed, along with many other d&d settings, and it is now really incorporated into the d&d universe." False. PS has *always* been the D&D universe. It's basically the multiverse where all the D&D worlds, heavens, and hells are located. PS, in essence, is the most important aspect of it since it consists of all the worlds. And, sure you can choose to ignore it; but that is illogical. Afterall, I could ignore all the bad parts of say GH and make it sound perfect. Or FR. Or Whatever. Bottom line is that PS is not a world. Period. This is an undisputable fact.

But, if it's a role-playing game; you should have the option. Why? Having chocies yet not being able to choose NOT ot be evil hurts the choice of being good as there is no real choice at all. Situation: PC comes across a woman wlaking on the road. If they are role-playinga s cumbag they can choose to do bad things tm., and it makes their character bad. There's a reason why it's called choosing to be 'evil'. It's obvious to the player (or at bleast should be) that their character is Evil tm. for committing such acts that it's not meant to be admired. Afterall, anyone who has enjoyed playing playing games like FO, PST, BG, Arcanum, and JE know full well you can LOTS of dispicable acts. Being able to choose to do dispicable acts makes choosing NOT do them even more meaningful as you chose to be Goody Two Shoes tm. unlike a game like FF where you *have* to be good. Game over. Again. P.S. Youa re wrong also about games not being able to make the player feel sympathy. I know you like to bash JE; but many people who have played 'evil' in that game said how they felt bad about their character doing certain dispicable act that they either reloaded and chose another option, repented, or had to play again right awya as to 'make it up to the fictional characters' You lose. Come on, guys. This is wayyyyyyyyy tooooooooooo easyyyyyyyyyyyyy.........

I win. Your over sized words is just your way to lamely to an ego stroke as to make yourself 'think' you win. The difference is, is that I *know* that i have won. Game over.

"Ah, life is so simple when things are black or white, isn't it?" Give me actual undisputable proof that a game cause someone to rape, murder, or some other heinous crime where the game was the main factor and not drug useage, horrible/non existent parenting, or other mental/social problems. You cna't. There is no true link between games and murder. Tak away ALL outside negative influences, and a game is as harmless as nonchokeable spaghetti. "You have to wonder about the sort of people who want that sort of thing in a game, or a movie for that matter." A. Go play Pokemon. B. It's simple. I want to deal with real mature problems; not kiddifying everything. The world is a harsh place with really evil or sick people in it. I think games that really want to be mature should show this. Some of the best movies, and tv shows have had storylines that deal with rape and when they deal with it right; it's a very moving experience that one can feel the pain of a victim espicially when said victim eventually deals with the problem and fights back. I want a hero, or heroine who truly fights against the odds delaing with real issue; not always mass murdeirng million of the Uber Bad Guy's retarded goons. Game over. P.S. If you cna't handle mature themes in games avoid my mods at ALL costs, NumbersU. "Volo, what did your parents let you play when you were growing up? I want to make sure I avoid letting my kids play that stuff. " No limits on what I watrched or played. And, guess what? I have commited: 0 rapes 0 mass murders 0 murders 0 assaults 0 other heinous crimes. Game over.

"And FF8 ws just a rehash of it's predecessors" Um. No. It was a new world that shared some of the same qualities; but also had differences that set it apart. "Planescape was a campaign setting on its own, which I would count as a gameworld." Not a world. It's a multiverse that contains many worlds. Since does a world or game world contain otherworlds. Afterall, it hosts many, many, many worlds. And, then some...

"Jupp, I know it's a part of the FR, but still. Isn't FR more like a universe, and Planescape just a part of it, with its own realm?" Other way around. FR is part of PS. Just like Greyhawk, and other D&D worlds. PS is basically D&D's multiverse equivilant to our real world space. "But hey, don't forget the most important part. The explanation. Why did you choose Forgotten Realms as your favourite gameworld?" That's easy. There's enough written about it you have a solid basis for an alreayd made world while being open enough to add a person DM or player's touch. There's lots of variety of cultures, creaurtes, cities, city cities, et al. that one campaign or game or game can be completely different than another yet have enough aspects being the same it is familiar.

Again, everything should be open up in games. Even such heinous crimes as rape, racism, and mass murder. As long as its handled maturely; and even if it sin't you cna just ignore said game. Games do not make rapists. Or mass murderers. Or racists. Period.

Planescape is not a world so it is auotmatically disqualified. Afterall, the FR is a part of PS. I vote for FR, btw. Arcanum is also pretty good. The Jade Empire is kewl. Some of the FF worlds rocked espicially FF8...

No. No. No. There is no real connection between the two. Games don't cause people to commit violence. Period. This is undisputable.

They have their strnegths, and weaknesses..

Everything should be up for games. No mercy for the wicked! if people cna't tell the difference beteen game violence and real violence; they're insane and belong in an insane asylum. Games don't make murderers. I bet most people who start killing after playing a certain game have various other problems in their life like drugs, non existent parents, bullies at school, or some other psychological illness. Once again, games do not create murderers nor does it encourage murderers. Hell, GTA sells millions of copies and 99.999999999% of those who play it aren't goinga round murdering others,a nd those who do have bigger problems than a silly game. No subject should be taboo in game. No subject all. As long as it fits the game. ie. I don't think you shoud be allowed to rape ina Mario game. That is just silly.

There's nothing wrong with having faith, and to ask someone like Bush (or anyone else) to convinetly ignore their faih when running for Office is silly. Being Christian (his actual standing as a Christian notwithstanding) is a part of who he is, and is part of how he does his job. Those who voted I would assume knew about his deep religiousosity before he ran the first time so it's not like he pretended otherwise, got the gig, and then rveealed his master plan. People seem to forge that even Bush with all his religion doesn't overstep his bounds. Afterall, religiously he was against allowing that braindead woman in Kalifornia having her plug pulled; but he didn't stop it. Why? 'Cause as he quite clearly stated, the law was against him in that case so he followed the law. See. You can be religious, and still your job as Prez and uphold the law of the country.

I expect the new OC to be about as good as the OC was story wise; but it should fix the same things that SOU and HOTU fixed or addressed. More use of non combat non dialogue skills, no ph@t lewt found on ground, and a more openw orld that won't be as narrowly defined by 'chapters'. The world map, and horses shall be cool additions. I still prefer 3.0 rules to 3.5 rules; but meh; I cna overlook that as 3.5 isn't completely horrible; but ti sure was no improvement...

"And get your DM client server fixed." It works. Just not for you. For soem reason. "guess an idea of when the next version will be ready," A month I hope at the latest if spell and rule changes go smoothly.. "any tantalising tidbits from part 2 ..." I'm sure I cna whip something up...

Ok then. I'll say this the script requires those actors in Hercules and Xena to say a lot of cheesy things and do a lot of thinsg that would normally demand a bunch of rollseyes; b ut in the end they work because the actors - all of them - do a very good job - bring a lacklustre script to a higher level. Basically, a good actor can elevate an otherwise poor script OR story just as a poor actor can devalue a good story or script. Game over. Again. But, not really know the 'net.

"it's not consistent with what Vader is in the OT." It doesn't have to be. The Vader we see in the OT has been part of the DS for 2 decades. The Vader we see being 'born' in the NT has just turned the DS, and hasn't quite become the souless machine that we've come to love. If you cna't tell the difference between this; that's your problem. In essence, the transformation sin't completely complete as of yet. "On the other hand, bad acting can affect a good script." On the other hand, good acting can effect a bad script. This is proven with shows like Hercules and Xena where the stories are as basic as they come yet the actors do an impressive job of making you believe. Game over.