Volourn

Oh, you made it sound like the UD was silly. I don't think it is. It may not be 'real world like'; but I thinmk it's logical in the game world.

"Then again, we're talking about a game where a sprawling race of evil, black-skinned elves live underground yet never has to worry about food, water, air, or space. I wouldn't be surprised to come upon a tropical rainforest underground in a NWN2 mod" The UD is not just another cave or undergorund. It has its own ecology including air space and, food, and water sources. I would think a drow fan would know this stuff. @ Grom:

1. I said more intuitive. I didn't say easier. NWN2 does things in a certain way that makes the toolkset unituitive. The way it handles the toolset camera, and deleting items has nothing to do with the 'complexity' of the new toolset; but poor deisgn. 2. NWN1's story *is* better than NWN2's story. NWN1's story may be exactly what you say is; but that beats NWN2's story which is nothing but 'kill KOS' which I figured out as soon as KOS was mentioned. L0LLERZ. 3. NWN1 combat was definietey more challenging. It wasn't *hard*; but no need to eb to be more challenging than NWN2. I died 4 times during NWN2, and that was usually because of me being sloppy. I died way more in NWN1. Yeah, yeah, I know people will brag aboout never dying in either but a) they are either lying flat out or they rested inbetween every battle, or c) use the portal stone in NWN1 during battles which eaquals cowardly and the admittance that the game was hard for them. "he one thing that obsidian and bio folks DID learn from nwn1 is that there is a very small number of modders out there, and to makes anything worthwhile with toolset requires considerable time, skill, and wherewithal. makes toolset for dummies? is wasted effort. the people who is gonna use toolset to do anything useful is folks who is gonna be largely undaunted by a more complex toolset." Having a complex toolset, and being intuitive are not mutually exclusive, Little One. I would think you'd know that. In fact, NWN2's toolset is once you get past the poor untuitiveness is rather simple to use. You'd know that if you actually checked it out instead of spitting out random nonsense.

" toee and nwn both had issues with radial menus expanding cross entire screen simply to get to some necessary option." Not true. TOEE did; but NWN1's radial did not. Anyways, whya re people worried about this list of 50? I could make a list of 50 things NWN1 did better. I could also make a list 50 things that NWN2 does better. It's not a big deal. Here, I'll do mini ones. 5 Things NWN1 Did Better ----------------------------- 1. Better Storyline 2. More Challenging Combat 3. More Non Linear 4. More Intuitive Toolset 5. Better Animation & Spell Effects Overall 5 Things NWN2 Does Better ------------------------------- 1. Resizing & Tinting 2. More Interactive Joinables 3. More Chaarcter Creation Options 4. Superior Graphics 5. Better Overall Use of Dialogue Skills In OC Game over.

Game over.

Except it doesn't look like crap. NWN1 still looks good.

"Bah, they're getting rid of the weak link (that damned quarterback) presently." Their quarterback is not the problem. The rest of the team is.

Anyone who thinks NWN2 is less linear than NWN1 is drunk. NWN1 is not the most non liena rgame ever but it sure CRUSHES NWN2 in that regard. I didn't feel in restricted. The only thing restrictive about NWN1 OC were the modules; but within a module/chapter; the game was very non linear. NWN2 OC is basically area toa rea to complete the main quest. Only the Keep breaks them up. As for sales comparisons, I think it's pretty silly to compare them. First off, it's pretty much unlikely NWN2 will outsell NWN1, and in the end it doesn't neccesarily have to do with which one is better. People seem, also forget that while NWN1 when a bunch of awards or selling a lot ovf copies may not prove anything about its qualioty or how much fans like it; but its longtivity not just in how lonmg people palyed it but for how it sold. IIRC, NWN stayed in the top 10 games for a few months (only a select few games like WC and Sims usually do that), and on top of that NWN also happened tor egained top seller status when their expansions came out - not just the expansions themselves, but compliations, and NWN1 seperately. I think that's where we'll be able to compare them. Plus, professional reviewers weren't the only ones who really liked NWN - so did the players hence its high ratings. NWN2's ratings so far by player shave been lower. Yeah, yeah. I know. Those who prefer NWN1 must be stupid. R00fles! You know, NWN2 OC kinda reminds of BL. A game I should be proud to say 'one of my fave games ever'; but in the end it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Bl was the absolute crap combat and NWN2 OC it's the totally linear and one dimensional and quite frnakly boring main story. And, the one thing iw as prepared to love - the joinable npcs - which as a group are as great as any game including BG2, PST, and JE - is hamstringed by the annoying forced upon NPCs. The same problme JE had; but thankfully while JE had some npcs I disliked; none of them were of the type I absoplutely wanted to break my computer over just to get rid of them. NWN2 is a good game that I enjoyed. Just like the NWN1 OC. Neithe rone of them are of the elite. P.S. There is no way anyone saw Desther and figured out the entire plot of the game. Ch1's plot yes; the whole plot no. Heck, I'm sure those who claim this probably wopuld also claim they KNEW that Fenthick wasn't really inchoots but was just a poor patsy even though they didn't. D0uble R00fles!

NWN1 OC was good. Just as good as NWN2 OC mainly because you aren't forced to party with such annoying npcs like Neeshka.

I enjoyed the game; but I cna't doa s econd play through. Forced npcs make me shudder at the though. I don't want Neeshka in my party ever again. EVAR!

"But as I recall NWN didn't have that many until later with expansion packs." NWN1 had a lot of monsters. "Beyond those two... you're kidding... right?" Nah. A lot of thema re right. That's not really the ppint hwoever. One could (and one has) make a list detailing 50 ways that NWN2 is better than NWN1. It's also full of things thata re flat out wrong, opinions , and nitpicks. The problem here as Alanshu said, the whole purpose of the thread is really sad. Exactly what does this list accomplish? nothing. It's nothing more than a troll thread.

This thread is as lame as the other thread entitled '50 reasons why NWN2 is better than NWN1'. The sad part I could make a list either way. It's lame, and obvious trolling. Sad, really.

Don't take the Butterfly Effect so narrowly. The point is you make a change; other things will change as well. I guess you wnated him to wear a blue shirt instead of a red one; and have major things change because of that? That's not as entertaining. The Butterfly Effect is still taking place in the movie. And, some of the changes are rather small in the large scheme of things. Ex: How he handles the whole dog shooting thing IIRC TRhe way it changes how various characters turn out is a very good example.

LOL Kelso. P.S. The Guardina doesn't look that interetsing, imo. "The simple fact that Butterfly Effect has that name makes it incredibly stupid. Mainly because what happens in the movie has bugger all to do with the actual "butterfly effect" Eh? Sure it does. The smallest change can have a ripple effect on much larger things. It's the premise of both the idea of the 'butterfly effect' and the movie. Oh, you tellin' me you wanted the movie show a butterfly actually being stepped on? Uhuh... A recent dinosuar movie did that. It was cool; but not as good.

Kutcher is underrated. He did a terrific job in BE. Awesome. That entire movie was terrific. Great acting, great story, great pacing, and so on. They did overdo some of the 'bad stuff' that happen and in one part he overacted way too much; but overall; that movie made me a Kutcher fan when baforehand he was just a goofball. The whole movie is underrated. Sadly, part 2 was plain old fashion complete crap.

"My least favorite part of the KOTOR series was the fact that they were made for consoles and then ported to the PC." No true. JE is a port. KOTOR (and it sequel) were made with both console and PC in mind. It was not a port. I think Obsidian's next move should to make expansion for NWN2. Everything else is a bonus to me.

Butterfly Effect was a good move. BE2, on the other, not so much. And, I'm trying to be polite here. I would take BE over DD which was good but way overrated.

Just read my reply to him. 'Nough said. That is all.

"And by not voting, they are effectively saying they don't want to live in a democracy." Absolutely false.

The majority of people believbe that Iraq is better off with Saddam in poweer. They are wrong too. The majority of people are often wrong. Sorry; but the truth hurts. The fact that Long thinks its a cheap shot likely means I'm more likely to be correct. Besides Dark Raven is on my side. I auto WIN! :joy:

"Actually, all things considered Sweden is a whole lot better place to live than US of A." Good on you, and your opinion. "Which European countries are you talking about?" I can't recall offhand; but I remmeber a disucssion awhile back here debating the merits of forcing or not forcing people to vote whether they wnated to or not. If it wasn't over an European country; but some other country than oops. The main point still stands. "Also, turnout is an excellent way to measure the success of a democracy. Low turnout indicates that people don't care about who governs their country." I disagree. Success of a democracy shouldn't ahve to do with the number of people who vote; but the choice to vote. I ahven't voted in every election because sometimes I feel there's no need. My town just had an election. i didn't bother to vote because eitehr candcidate was gonna be fine for me. Other times, I don't care for either one. But, guess what, in a real democracy I have that option to vote for who I want or not at all. I do vote most of the time; but that's a personal choice given to me due to living in a democracy. "jokenly" is not a word by the way." It is now. New words are created all the time. Otherwise, dialogue becomes stagnant. Every word we use had to be 'created' or used for the first time at some point.

"neither keen or wepon of impact spells seem to work." They don't stack with improved critical or the WM special ability sadly. This happens a lot. Many spells become useless because of the 'overlap' rule. "auto resurrection sucks. yeah, we get that like kotor the lives of joinable npcs is required to advance plot." Sadly, the vast majority of joinables aren't really needed to advance the plot. I can think of 2 that cna be argued for; but the game could have been changed in one or two minors ways to fix the problem. I think that was a sillya rgument. NPCs are forced on you simply because Obsidian wnated it that way. Possibly for one specifc reason that i won't spoil for you as that can be found in my spoiler thread. Sand: Don't be silly. A god's avatar is more powerful than 20th level characters. A god's power is pretty much uncaprable. In fact, a mortal can only really enter combat with a demi god. Gods of higher standing are untouchable for mortals. And, that's ebcause the vast majority of demi gods are ex mortals themselves (Velsharoon) or really, really weak older gods whose time has basiclaly passed them by (Jergal).

No 20th level character is even near the equivelant of a god therefore you are making up rumours, myths, and innuendo by telling everyone 20th level is 'godlike'.

20th level is not 'godlike'. That's a myth.

meta: I'm the troll? I'm not the one who made a thread those main goal is to bash other countries (Inamely Britian and the US0. I mean the gu even 'jokenly' admits. How the heck does one really measure some of the things this survey supposedly does? Turnout? Since when does actual voter turn out prove or disprove a country is democratic? The whole point of a dmeocracy is for the citizens to have choice. This should include the choice of voting or not voting. Countries who force their citizens to vote udner threat of fine or jailtime should lose points not gain them. I'm not syaing Sweden is such a country; but I do know some European countries have such a law, IIRC. I could go through the whole lists of 'evidence' and 'factual evidence' and do the same but it's a waste of time. It's mall about arrogant bragging rights and the ability to say in a bigoted way,"My country is better than youyrs! HAHAHA!: