Volourn

"With those, however, it really looked bad. Just plain ugly bad." No. That is a myth. NWN's graphics inlduing the toolset has always looked good, and still do. Period. Surely destroys the brown poo that its compatriot of that time MW had that tried to 'pass' as graphics.

"I don't mind having party members forced on you - it's realistic." No. No, it isn't. Not even close to be realistic. Not even close. It's also the number one reason why my attemtp to play the NWN2 OC a second time failed. The idea of having to party with Neeshka again is almost as annoying as her. Worst. character. Evar. Poorly copnceived, poorly written. Too bad too as Mr. Avellone did an EXCELLENT job on 99% of the other joinables npc. Even Grob didn't bother me too much; and he's the type of sillky character I loathe.

Some silly points by Volourn: 1. I find it hialrious that some of the same people whining about how silly or nitpicky or worthles this topic is are some of the people whoa re ppsting the most in this htread. 2. Mr. Sawyer has been cool in this thread, and makes good ppoints throughout. 3. While it's true that NWN2 has better overall graphics than NWN1 (as well it should since it was made in 2006 while NWN1 was a 2002 game; overall IMO, NWN1 has better special effects SFX espicially in regards to spells. Of course, there *are* exemptions to this. 4. Grom, you still trolling me? Good job. 5. The whole 'no skin' policy is lame, and it has nothing to do with being a pervert (though I am; but that's a whole different issue). It seems silly to take off armour/clothing/robes just to find more clothes underneath. And, the Warlock model shows that WOTC can't even do that right sicne they allowed BIG B00BIES to be shown. 6. As i said way back in the other thread, it should be rather easy to make a list of 'what NWN2 did better than NWN1' and vice versa. It proves absolutely nothing. That is all. For now.

Nah. I don't think it's silly. Just ebcause it doesn't fit into the concept of the 'real world' doesn't make it silly. It's a fictional world. It shouldn't work exactly like ours. Is Mars exactly like Earth? No. Nor should it. Yet, it's a real world. On top of that, underground can support life in the real world. Various cave systems discovered have various forms of life in them. *shrug*

Except it's not the same. And, you'd know that if you actaully knew what you were talking about which you don't and admitted to. R00fles! :crazy:

If we covered this before there's no need to cover it again so why are you spamming? :crazy:

Oh, you made it sound like the UD was silly. I don't think it is. It may not be 'real world like'; but I thinmk it's logical in the game world.

"Then again, we're talking about a game where a sprawling race of evil, black-skinned elves live underground yet never has to worry about food, water, air, or space. I wouldn't be surprised to come upon a tropical rainforest underground in a NWN2 mod" The UD is not just another cave or undergorund. It has its own ecology including air space and, food, and water sources. I would think a drow fan would know this stuff. @ Grom:

1. I said more intuitive. I didn't say easier. NWN2 does things in a certain way that makes the toolkset unituitive. The way it handles the toolset camera, and deleting items has nothing to do with the 'complexity' of the new toolset; but poor deisgn. 2. NWN1's story *is* better than NWN2's story. NWN1's story may be exactly what you say is; but that beats NWN2's story which is nothing but 'kill KOS' which I figured out as soon as KOS was mentioned. L0LLERZ. 3. NWN1 combat was definietey more challenging. It wasn't *hard*; but no need to eb to be more challenging than NWN2. I died 4 times during NWN2, and that was usually because of me being sloppy. I died way more in NWN1. Yeah, yeah, I know people will brag aboout never dying in either but a) they are either lying flat out or they rested inbetween every battle, or c) use the portal stone in NWN1 during battles which eaquals cowardly and the admittance that the game was hard for them. "he one thing that obsidian and bio folks DID learn from nwn1 is that there is a very small number of modders out there, and to makes anything worthwhile with toolset requires considerable time, skill, and wherewithal. makes toolset for dummies? is wasted effort. the people who is gonna use toolset to do anything useful is folks who is gonna be largely undaunted by a more complex toolset." Having a complex toolset, and being intuitive are not mutually exclusive, Little One. I would think you'd know that. In fact, NWN2's toolset is once you get past the poor untuitiveness is rather simple to use. You'd know that if you actually checked it out instead of spitting out random nonsense.

" toee and nwn both had issues with radial menus expanding cross entire screen simply to get to some necessary option." Not true. TOEE did; but NWN1's radial did not. Anyways, whya re people worried about this list of 50? I could make a list of 50 things NWN1 did better. I could also make a list 50 things that NWN2 does better. It's not a big deal. Here, I'll do mini ones. 5 Things NWN1 Did Better ----------------------------- 1. Better Storyline 2. More Challenging Combat 3. More Non Linear 4. More Intuitive Toolset 5. Better Animation & Spell Effects Overall 5 Things NWN2 Does Better ------------------------------- 1. Resizing & Tinting 2. More Interactive Joinables 3. More Chaarcter Creation Options 4. Superior Graphics 5. Better Overall Use of Dialogue Skills In OC Game over.

Game over.

Except it doesn't look like crap. NWN1 still looks good.

"Bah, they're getting rid of the weak link (that damned quarterback) presently." Their quarterback is not the problem. The rest of the team is.

Anyone who thinks NWN2 is less linear than NWN1 is drunk. NWN1 is not the most non liena rgame ever but it sure CRUSHES NWN2 in that regard. I didn't feel in restricted. The only thing restrictive about NWN1 OC were the modules; but within a module/chapter; the game was very non linear. NWN2 OC is basically area toa rea to complete the main quest. Only the Keep breaks them up. As for sales comparisons, I think it's pretty silly to compare them. First off, it's pretty much unlikely NWN2 will outsell NWN1, and in the end it doesn't neccesarily have to do with which one is better. People seem, also forget that while NWN1 when a bunch of awards or selling a lot ovf copies may not prove anything about its qualioty or how much fans like it; but its longtivity not just in how lonmg people palyed it but for how it sold. IIRC, NWN stayed in the top 10 games for a few months (only a select few games like WC and Sims usually do that), and on top of that NWN also happened tor egained top seller status when their expansions came out - not just the expansions themselves, but compliations, and NWN1 seperately. I think that's where we'll be able to compare them. Plus, professional reviewers weren't the only ones who really liked NWN - so did the players hence its high ratings. NWN2's ratings so far by player shave been lower. Yeah, yeah. I know. Those who prefer NWN1 must be stupid. R00fles! You know, NWN2 OC kinda reminds of BL. A game I should be proud to say 'one of my fave games ever'; but in the end it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Bl was the absolute crap combat and NWN2 OC it's the totally linear and one dimensional and quite frnakly boring main story. And, the one thing iw as prepared to love - the joinable npcs - which as a group are as great as any game including BG2, PST, and JE - is hamstringed by the annoying forced upon NPCs. The same problme JE had; but thankfully while JE had some npcs I disliked; none of them were of the type I absoplutely wanted to break my computer over just to get rid of them. NWN2 is a good game that I enjoyed. Just like the NWN1 OC. Neithe rone of them are of the elite. P.S. There is no way anyone saw Desther and figured out the entire plot of the game. Ch1's plot yes; the whole plot no. Heck, I'm sure those who claim this probably wopuld also claim they KNEW that Fenthick wasn't really inchoots but was just a poor patsy even though they didn't. D0uble R00fles!

NWN1 OC was good. Just as good as NWN2 OC mainly because you aren't forced to party with such annoying npcs like Neeshka.

I enjoyed the game; but I cna't doa s econd play through. Forced npcs make me shudder at the though. I don't want Neeshka in my party ever again. EVAR!

"But as I recall NWN didn't have that many until later with expansion packs." NWN1 had a lot of monsters. "Beyond those two... you're kidding... right?" Nah. A lot of thema re right. That's not really the ppint hwoever. One could (and one has) make a list detailing 50 ways that NWN2 is better than NWN1. It's also full of things thata re flat out wrong, opinions , and nitpicks. The problem here as Alanshu said, the whole purpose of the thread is really sad. Exactly what does this list accomplish? nothing. It's nothing more than a troll thread.

This thread is as lame as the other thread entitled '50 reasons why NWN2 is better than NWN1'. The sad part I could make a list either way. It's lame, and obvious trolling. Sad, really.

Don't take the Butterfly Effect so narrowly. The point is you make a change; other things will change as well. I guess you wnated him to wear a blue shirt instead of a red one; and have major things change because of that? That's not as entertaining. The Butterfly Effect is still taking place in the movie. And, some of the changes are rather small in the large scheme of things. Ex: How he handles the whole dog shooting thing IIRC TRhe way it changes how various characters turn out is a very good example.

LOL Kelso. P.S. The Guardina doesn't look that interetsing, imo. "The simple fact that Butterfly Effect has that name makes it incredibly stupid. Mainly because what happens in the movie has bugger all to do with the actual "butterfly effect" Eh? Sure it does. The smallest change can have a ripple effect on much larger things. It's the premise of both the idea of the 'butterfly effect' and the movie. Oh, you tellin' me you wanted the movie show a butterfly actually being stepped on? Uhuh... A recent dinosuar movie did that. It was cool; but not as good.

Kutcher is underrated. He did a terrific job in BE. Awesome. That entire movie was terrific. Great acting, great story, great pacing, and so on. They did overdo some of the 'bad stuff' that happen and in one part he overacted way too much; but overall; that movie made me a Kutcher fan when baforehand he was just a goofball. The whole movie is underrated. Sadly, part 2 was plain old fashion complete crap.

"My least favorite part of the KOTOR series was the fact that they were made for consoles and then ported to the PC." No true. JE is a port. KOTOR (and it sequel) were made with both console and PC in mind. It was not a port. I think Obsidian's next move should to make expansion for NWN2. Everything else is a bonus to me.

Butterfly Effect was a good move. BE2, on the other, not so much. And, I'm trying to be polite here. I would take BE over DD which was good but way overrated.

Just read my reply to him. 'Nough said. That is all.

"And by not voting, they are effectively saying they don't want to live in a democracy." Absolutely false.