phiont

I'm not all that surprised that Obsidian hasn't commented on this Kreia/Kae thing. I look at it this way. It will be no small task for KotOR III's developer to cater to the 16 different degrees of freedom generated by Revan and Exile each being either male or female and good or evil. So, to simplify matters, I suspect KotOR III may look back more on fixed characters like Kreia - the one party member whose alignment never moved. Yeah, I know she's supposed to be dead. But, she was also supposed to be dead when the Harbinger crew and Peragus people found her, right? I suspect that much of what we've delved into here in this thread may indeed form some of the backstory or even frontstory for the next episode. Instead of being part of a cut storyline it may actually be part of a story that is still waiting to be told.

She actually survived Exar Kun and changed her name to Kreia. (How's that, Phantom? " )

I officially declare you (senseful???) too. :D

She became a .

In the hololog of the discussion following the Exile's trial, when one of the Masters says: "And Revan had many teachers since." Atris responds with: "Yet they all stem from the same source. Her teachings violated the Jedi Code and lead all who listen to the dark side, as they did the exile." I believe the teacher Atris is referring to may be Kreia because Atris also uses the word "her" for the version of the dialog where Revan is male. This might mean that Kreia taught the Exile, at one time.

From the dialog.tlk file: Handmaiden sister: But there has been no word of her since she departed with the other four on the freighter. {Atris turns to the handmaiden}{A little confused} Atris: Four? Handmaiden sister: Yes, mistress: the Iridonian, the Echani-trained pilot, the exile, and the old woman. Atris: Old woman? Handmaiden sister: Yes, mistress. {Slight confusion, she was mind controlled not to remember} Atris: I... do not recall seeing her. Handmaiden sister: Mistress, she was secured for much of the time the exile was here. At other times you were meditating, and we did not wish to disturb you. {Silence, as Atris looks at Sister1} Handmaiden sister: Mistress, is there something wrong? Atris: I am... tired. {Starts showing vulnerability of her internal collapse} Atris: I... sometimes feel as if things are collapsing... all around us. It is just at the edge of perceptions, waiting. I fear... I fear things will collapse before our enemies reveal themselves. Handmaiden sister: Yes... mistress. Atris: I will meditate upon this. Perhaps it will clear my mind.

A common misconception not supported by fact. According to the Handmaiden Sisters: "It is not unusual for the Echani of the same parents to be born so as to be indistinguishable to outsiders." So, even though Echani children of the same parents commonly resemble each other they don't necessarily resemble their parents. And when Handmaiden says she honours the face of her mother she is merely trying to explain why she looks different from her half-sisters who had a different mother. Handmaiden has never seen her mother and admits to having no idea what she looked like. Kreia was the only character in the game who said anything at all about Arren Kae's appearance: "And she was... said to be... a skilled warrior. Beautiful. And strong in the Force." I suspect there was a reason that Kreia paused in mid sentence to insert the phrase, "said to be..." Revan was the Padawan of both Kreia and Kae. It's rather unlikely that Kreia never saw Kae. So, why would Kreia feel compelled to cite the opinions of others if not out of the same sense of modesty used when describing one's self.

Good one, mel00!!

Here are the most recent XP totals for some of Ghetmi Attahir's milestones on Telos: 6079 - Ebon Hawk just before Telos 12159 - Entering restoration zone 12559 - Entering the military base 13059 - Entering polar academy (However, to be fair I really should add around 1833 XP to those totals to account for all the XP I saved because of your tips on Peragus. :"> ) Samhan sold me an Exchange ShadowCaster (+4 ST) so I opted to leave my goods in the armory, at least for a while longer. I only had to kill Slusk's 2 bodyguard droids to get into his office. Only 1 of Benok's blokes chased me and I was able to lead him safely to the room with the force cages. I was able to ignore Moza's rescue plee and continue straight down to the RZ. Getting into the military base without killing or being killed was tricky. I was surprised that Ghetmi could lead the lost Czerka scavenger out of the base while stealthed. The hostile droids just ignore him. That was good for some LS points and no XP. Bashing the storage door to where the ignition codes are hidden was probably the tensest moment with at least 6 MilBots hacking away at my Mandalorian Melee Shield. The Tank Droid was the only obligatory XP incurred in that level. Entering the polar mesa was possible without killing the HK units and running away from them was not too tough. A critical moment approaches. Which world to deal with next?

Because you combine the skill with the roll of a D20... an advantage of +5 hardly makes it impossible. It just means more often than not you'll go undetected. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You don't think I already had a stealth skill of 26 in the Telos Restoration Zone, do you? :ph34r: Those numbers already include the rolls. When the evil Rakatan chief asked me to get the secret documents from the Elders, I was soooooooo hoping that I'd be able to bring him the Mysterious Box and say, "It's in here." " :D

Question 54: What happened to the plasteel cylinders that used to be on the Ebon Hawk? Seriously, I made extensive use of them for storing excess inventory in KotOR I, although a minor bug would always empty them enroute to the Unknown World. lol :D That's exactly what I said when I started typing out all my questions. Thanks for the feedback.

I get the impression that whoever designed Darth Sion may have seen this old B-movie.

Dozens and dozens? Are you sure about that? It's only been around 90 minutes since you started this thread, yet when I look at the front page all I see is the following:

Well. In what situation has that happened? It's known, that KotOR 2 randomly generates items. You can have that same container. First time you open it with security and it's empty. Then you load game and bash it. After loading, it can actually contain something, but by bashing, you destroy that item. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The situation I remember and understood best was the locker in the storage room off the Ithorian's dock at Citadel station. It's locked and remains empty until you receive blackmarketeer Samhan's quest to steal the Ithorian prototype shield. So, most of the other times I've ever found a locked empty container I just assumed it was for a quest I'd not received yet. By the way, I've compared picking locks with bashing locks many times and I've never seen an item become destroyed. For me, bashing has only ever added some broken items to what was already there. Or like Redmen posted yesterday, the broken item may be like a small compensation for not getting the XP from picking. What? My avatar??

If he said this... Then why did you say this ? ? I don't think anyone who makes the effort of registering on these boards to politely express his thoughts as Jediphile has done is "dismissing" this product.

You must be one of those people who trusted all the game magazine reviews. You must be one of those people who didn't visit the boards here or at Lucas Arts before buying it. You must be just like me.

Was I the only one who believed that it was not a mining droid at all that got T3, but an HK? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It was indeed an HK that attacked T3-M4 and dumped him in the fuel line. But I hope you also remember T3 being attacked by mining droids, which is what my question was about. Yes, I was wondering if maybe my Audigy II soundcard was to blame for the audio artifacts. But then I also read about this audio loop splicing flaw in an game review. So I'm not so inclined to blame my hardware in this case.

That's quite a theory, Von Manstein. How did you come up with this correlation between lightsabre colour preferences and insecurity?

I haven't tried that one. I was having Kreia use the Mandalorian Disintegrator. With the gun's "Keen" scope upgrade, the critical threat range was 15 - 20. A typical volley with Master Speed and Master Rapid Shot was inflicting "unstoppable" damage of ~ 250 per round. Not bad for an old lady with one hand. :D

When I started this thread I felt a bit like I was informing a close friend that her husband has been unfaithful. You have to wonder sometimes if perhaps people are actually better off not seeing the flaws in what they love. Let's keep hoping that something better may come from such revelations - like maybe a patch? " Many thanks to all of you who posted such useful, as well as amusing insights. Clearly, I really need to talk to GOTO more to find out much of what I've been missing. Oh, and I haven't taken a DS path yet with TSL. Maybe that's where the player character's portrait image changes noticeably. Perhaps the Cloaking Device that concealed his ship didn't extend to any vessels attached to it? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> This could have been awesome!! (w00t) Imagine you are on the bridge, having just transferred all systems to the secondary power terminal, which would instead be situated by the starboard window. Looking out the window from terminal you see nothing, not even the Ebon Hawk. However, as soon as you cut the secondary power everything becomes visible - the Hawk as well as the yacht's starboard wing. This would have visually reinforced the great threat you were suddenly facing by becoming exposed, no? Yes, you gain the additional Skill points immediately whenever raising INT gives you a bonus increase (ie. INT raised to an even number). I recall testing this when Bao-Dur joined my party with INT of 15. The only time my party members ever got pulled up to Mastery was when I was a Consular/Master. It might also work for non-Consular/Masters, but it didn't happen when I played through as a Sentinel/Watchman. I was trying to disarm the mines in front of some heavy turrets down in the Telos Restoration Zone. I remember having to push Stealth over 30 with some enhancement to be safe.

Diplomats/Republic personages, I believe. There's a datapad somewhere saying something to the effect that you were the exception to the rule. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> From the log: "As ordered, we've picked up the passengers from the Outer Rim, and have made quarters for them." "Once aboard, we plotted a course for Telos.. We expect to arrive within ten standard days, provided there's no mishaps." "I've been ordered to give the passenger no special treatment, nor make any indication of his identity." "I have some reservations about turning the Harbinger into a passenger liner, but the orders were clear." "Whoever this passenger is, he's got diplomatic-level priority, whether he knows it or not." This might fit in with my, as yet, unpublished theory that KotOR 3 will be set during the 4 years between 1 and 2. But, we can leave that for another thread. You bet!! Thanks a bunch.

I usually take notes when I play a game so that later I can try to get some answers at the Developer's forum. After a few weeks of reading about the cut content and other people's issues I'm still left with over 50 unanswered questions. Originally, after just one playthrough as a LS male Exile and having a LS female Revan I had over 100 questions. Thanks to everyone posting on these boards I was able to cut that list in half. So, here's what's left: General 1. Why didn't the player character have a voice, like in KotOR? It was useful even just to receive some indication that you'd scored a critical hit. 2. I like that empty containers and looted corpses are now labelled "empty" or "nothing" but why continue to label them at all? Why not just let the labels on containers and corpses vanish entirely the way they do on looted droids? Why have a different system for droids? 3. Why wasn't Bao-Dur allowed to wear Jedi robes? (He was my best Jedi.) 4. Why wasn't Bao-Dur allowed to lead the Freedon Nadd Tomb raiding party on Dxun? 5. Why isn't damage to Bao-Dur's Remote ever repaired? 6. Why is "Jedi Guardian" (falsely) listed as one of the prerequisites for the Weapon Specialisation Lightsabre feat? 7. Why don't I gain XP when an enemy under the spell of Force Confusion is killed by his teammates? 8. Why does bashing an empty crate suddenly produce broken items? In fact, why have locked empty crates at all? 9. Why have repeated the same dialogue options with both Wisdom and Awareness? Does the answer change if the question is asked out of Wisdom instead of Awareness? 10. Why were the dialog and feedback buttons buried in the messages menu, accessible via a button at the bottom of the journal menu? I use them often and they were all just a click (or speedkey) away in KotOR? 11. Why is it necessary to double-click the "none" button in the upgrade menus? There's no item description, so single-clicking should be enough. 12. Now that skills can be changed from cross-class skill, why not have the Feats selection screen appear before the Skills screen during level ups? 13. Why doesn't the character portrait in the load menu change to reflect alignment like it did in KotOR? 14. Why is it no longer possible to filter the inventory menu for "new items only" like we could in KotOR? 15. How were enemies successfully able to detect me with Awareness of 19 vs. my Stealth level of 26? 16. During melee combat, why does the AI still que up single hits when a character has already achieved Master Flurry, which incurs no penalty? Perhaps the AI is left over from KotOR where Master Flurry still suffered a small hit and defence penalty. Peragus 17. Why were mining droids that had been reprogrammed to "mine" organics trying to kill T3-M4? 18. Why are there 2 mining laser types; a 1-7 and a 1-8 version? ...Same with the 1-11 and 1-12 advanced mining lasers. 19. Who was the Exile traveling to Telos with on the Harbinger and what happened to them? The captain's logs clearly refer to picking up multiple passengers. 20. How could the force field barriers in the Peragus fuel depot actually seal off explosions or fuel leaks when the separated sections had open ceilings? Telos/Ravager 21. Why bring up the party selection menu when departing Citadel Station for the Ravager when you are forced to use Mandalore and Visas? 22. Why was Mandalore so concerned about the Republic vessels detecting their proton cores on the Ravager? "..the proton cores do not emit a signature the Republic ships can detect. If they do pick up the signal, they will assume it to be emanating from the ship's missile bays." So what? Why would the Ravager's proton cores be more tolerable for the Republic? 23. When Moza told Exile that Choda Habat can heal you, why were there hree options: (1.) Heal me?; (2.) What do you mean?; and (3.) I don't understand? What were the differences between these options, if any? (Game has way too much apparently similarly redundant dialog.) 24. Why did Atris' holocrons yell and scream like Nazi scientists when the game scriptor's instructions were "Evil whispers lurk in the background" ? Shouldn't they have used the creepy whispering sound that you can hear in Visas' meditation cell aboard the Ravager? 25. I really liked it that, while playing as B4-D4, you could get dedicated responses from nearly everyone on Citadel station. It reminds me a bit of the sadistic fun I had talking with the people on Taris while dressed in the Sith trooper's armor. So with all that attention to dialogue, why did Visas continue to answer with "I serve my master", when Nihilus was lying dead at our feet. And when she exited her meditation cell all she could do was again beg me (male Exile) to stay, just as she did back on Dantooine. Nar Shadda 26. If the stabilisation of Telos was so important to GOTO then why was he hijacking much needed fuel? 27. Why can't Kreia read the thoughts of Bao-Dur and what of it? 28. Why didn't the Exile actually receive anything from Atton when he came running to give you some healing packs? 29. Why did the airspeeder that took so long to fix end up damaged beyond repair just moments later? 30. Why did Hanharr's subtitles say "Jeedai" instead of Jedi? Clearly, the wookie wasn't actually saying anything that sounds like either. So why misspell it? 31. What did Kreia mean when she told Hanharr, "but first I must prepare you for what is to come" ? What preparation was there besides getting the beast to Malachor? 32. How did GOTO expect the Exile to fix the "broken" Republic without being allowed to go free? 33. Why did the main character in the rescue team swap places with any party member that interacted with the droids imprisoned on GOTO's yacht? 34. When GOTO was asked "wasn't your ship just destroyed?" why does he respond with "a common misconception not supported by fact" ? 35. What did Master Zez-Kai-Ell mean when he said, "...and although I would not keep promises to Jedi, I keep promises I make to others" ? ...Jedi are not others? 36. Why did leaving Vogga asleep completely reset our discussion when Exile returned later after destroying GOTO's yacht? The Exile had to exit and re-enter with Vogga already awake to initiate the GOTO reward and fuel discussions. 37. I like the view of the Ebon Hawk from the starboard window of the bridge of GOTO's yacht, but why not also show the starboard wing (arm) of GOTO's vessel? 38. How was I supposed to help Guron look for the modulator he was searching for at the swoop race center? 39. What was the significance of the hidden signal that the Bith scientist was seeking near the docks? 40. What was the purpose of the little burst data transmitter module that I found attached to both the swoop racing and the Pazaak playing droids? 41. The properties of Nomi's Armband sold by Geeda show "+1 vs. Dark Side." What does that mean? 42. On rescuing the Exile from GOTO's yacht, why was nothing said? There should have been some expression of gratitude or at least an acknowledgement like we saw when Zalbaar was rescued near the beginning of KotOR. Dantooine 43. Why did Suulru on Dantooine give me 20,000 credits worth of weapons (Zabrak Heavy Blaster + Dashade Sonic Blaster) for solving his 500 credit dispute with Jorran? 44. If Vrook's plan was to gather info from the mercs about the Khoonda attack why did rescuing him "ruin the best chance of averting an attack" ? He'd already collected the info and now needed to tell Khoonda, no? 45. Why was Khoonda admin Terena Adare laughing so much? You can see her character model swaying and chuckling up a storm even while the rest of us are fighting back the mercs that are trying to kill her. 46. Why does Master Zez-Kai-Ell at first speak with the voice of Master Kavar in the rebuilt enclave? 47. What did it mean when the Dantooine enclave sublevel's mainframe computer reported: "Mainframe disconnected from children." ? Onderon/Dxun 48. Why did I gain influence with Atton when I saved the lost Mandalorian, Kumus, on Dxun? (Atton was still back on the ship.) 49. Why did it always sound like there's a war going on in Onderon's Western Square, but not in the merchant quarter, 3 steps away? 50. Naturally we couldn't remove Mandalore's armor, but why couldn't we at least see its specifications (eg. max DEX bonus)? Malachor V 51. How did powering up the Mass Shadow Generator "undo" the damage caused by the Mass Shadow Generator? 52. Why does the movie "Death of the Ebon Hawk" have such a title when it was shown just a short while before the EH rescues the player from the core? 53. Why did the movie "Death of the Ebon Hawk" depict the ship slipping into a deep chasm, even though the Exile was standing on the valley floor directly beneath it, earlier, not to mention that Mira was able to fall down from the ship onto that same valley floor? Some closing items that are probably just bugs: Bao-Dur's Remote should not follow him in nearly the exact same position as the game's 3rd person view camera. The resultant position conflicts cause jumpy motion when playing Bao-Dur and the Remote's sound often seems to propagate from inside your head - a bit too loud. When visiting the TSF station later in the game, but before the Ravager attacks, the reception droid still reports the Ebon Hawk as stolen. Mandalore's alignment kept resetting to Dark Side and sometimes his character menu indicated he had 1/1 vitality. When T3-M4 approached maximum LS alignment his character screen showed him with maximum DS smoke and flames. Many times I would need to reboot the game so that the number of remaining skill points would be reported correctly during level ups. Many times an attribute adjustment made during a level up would later show the adjustment made instead on a different attribute. Kreia's lesson about skills increased my force point max but did nothing to my lowest and highest skill levels, no matter how much I raised them. The sound of the shielding on the Ithorian's plant on Citadel station is way too loud. The sound of the steam hissing during the prologue completely squelches the tutorial. Setting a character's combat style to Stationary almost never worked, even if the enemy was out of sight, around the corner and down the hall. The Mandalorian on Dxun actually goes west (northwest?) even though he tells you to cover the path to the west. There's no dialogue option with Lt Dol Grenn for completing the Telos fuel quest. I like the new random generation of found items, however it was a bit odd to find a Regal Visor on the remains of a Peragus excavation droid. There are quite a few gender mix ups in the dialogs regarding Revan. GOTO never referred to female Revan as a "she" at all. And according to the Exile, T3-M4 even says, "Because she could not take anyone with him." You can get a nasty 'crash to desktop' when you try using the Peragus admin computer again later after contacting T3-M4. Too often the player is given too little time to read long subtitles. Conversely, Visqis was speaking for 5 - 10 seconds when all he was saying was "Mira!!" The speeder on the Nar Sh docks is situated too far forward and is impaled on the railing. The equipment menu for all teammates shows a Defence level of only 9 while viewed aboard the Ebon Hawk. The music playing when Kreia meets the Exile at the top of the turbolift from the Peragus dormitories has very low fidelity. The music playing on entering the Korriban academy is too loud and can't be turned down/off in the options. The Ionite edges were the only ones that I found to work on the Zabrak or Echani vibroblades. Some of the grips didn't work either on those blades. The Armorply Mark II overlay can be installed on robes although it should be for armor only. Jedi party members achieving LS mastery bonuses usually lost them during level ups or even game loading. The TSF computer's statement "Any records on the Ebon Hawk's records comes up empty" could have been written better, no? The question "Who is Kreia?" may appear as option number 5 during Exile's final conversation with Atris, and then disappear forever if you don't ask it immediately. Critical hit calculations often bugged, resulting in feedback like "Threat Breakdown: Roll 15 vs. required 12 - 20, threat failure." During my sparring against 5 Handmaiden Sisters, all of my effects (ie. stimulants, force powers, shields) would terminate each time one of the sisters was defeated. Using a Thorium charge in Korriban while you have 2 sets of charges in your inventory will result in the loss of both of them. Meeting the apparition of Kreia and party members in the Korriban tomb cycles endlessly if you side with Kreia. Kreia should be a forced party member when returning to the rebuilt enclave. Otherwise, half her dialog gets cut and makes little sense if she just shows up on her own. Many of the game's ambient sound loops are very badly spliced producing an audible gap or click where they restart. That is all. I hope this list ends up being useful for somebody.

Boobs? Is that the latest, politically correct, non-sexist, term for female breasts? I have nothing against your message, ncr. By all means, stay vigilant!! But you don't do your cause any favours with such a "do as I say, not as I do" delivery.

Same with the non-mines intended to be gas vents on Malachor, which I don't mind except that you can actually see canisters.

Same as you did with Sonic Nullifier. I also had the Hyper-Adrenaline belt adding +3 to reflex saves and Force Speed raised defence by 1. I took a small survey by reloading and entering the Dorm airlock round 3 or 4 times at each character level. At level 1 the nearby lockers had the requisite thermal gloves, components and credits. At level 2 there were also belts, and underlays. It may still have been luck, though. Given all the sub tasks Luxa has a DS player do before granting access to Slusk for Lorso, it appears that the LS path to the RZ earns less XP - especially if the player can get away from the station without having to fight the mercs in the Ithorian compound. I'm not sure if that's an option, but it definitely isn't optional when they attack Czerka. My toughest question at this moment is whether to avoid all XP that can be avoided. If I faithfully continue down that path then I'm forced to leave my inventory in the TSF armory, where retrieval grants 50 XP. So far, I've been able to get by without it, but I just don't know how I'm going to break the news to Atton about his Ribbed Jacket. " By the way, just before the fake Batu Rem attacks, you can actually pause and remove Kreia using the party selection screen saving a massive 6 XP. In addition to Valor, I've chosen Mind Trick for it's useful stun which lasts a full 30 sec. If Ghetmi Attahir ever reaches level 15 then Force Confusion will actually save much XP. I once used it on Azkul in the battle of Khoonda. With the final hostile pacified, the game determined that the conflict was over and took me to the cut scene with Adare and Vrook. The scuffle that broke out in the background a few seconds into my Vrook chat resulted in Azkul's death, but no XP. :D