phiont

I totally agree, OneWithStrange. Nice find, Ada. Powerful script, Ace. Thanks Mondo.

One of my favourite lines from the game is what Mira said when she first met Disciple: "Are you sure you want to take this guy with us? I mean, he's easy on the eyes, but he talks like a roomful of Jedi."

Very strange. I finished the game only once and with a fully LS character. The Movies that were unlocked and presented in-game were: Death of the Ebon Hawk - where it falls from where it had been wedged upon arrival. Collapse of the Trayus Core - showing the Ebon Hawk rising from beneath and pausing next to where the Exile fought Kreia. Escape from the Trayus Core - with Ebon Hawk soaring up to the surface of Malachor while the pit walls are collapsing. Death of Malachor - the Ebon Hawk leaving the crumbling planet in the distance. You know, maybe someday after Obsidian has helped us sort out some of the bigger questions I might actually get around to asking why I was shown the Death of the Ebon Hawk scene.

Am I the only one wondering why Kreia's death ultimately had no effect at all on the Exile, given all the discussion about their so-called lethal force bond?

Hey Ace, how would you have scripted a great final scene where Kreia passes away in the arms of her daughter, Brianna? Perhaps Kae's face would suddenly recover some of it's youth as Malachor and the dark side slowly released it's grip on her. What would have been their parting words to one another?

Yes, Ace, exactly!! Well put. Ok, I'm done with digging into the dialog.tlk file because the following two quotes placed side by side have me fully convinced that, at one point, Kreia was intended to be Master Kae (Handmaiden's mother): "As a Padawan, Revan was trained by Master Kae, before she was exiled. Strange, I do not recall who Revan's master was after that. And it is said that he went to his first - and final - master to learn how to leave the order entirely, as she had." -- Disciple "He came to me, yes. Both before and after, before Revan knew himself. And after, in the times when Revan was coming into his own and learning he was more than he had been told. At one time, Revan was my Padawan. In times past, long ago. But Revan, when he had learned all he could, had other masters... that fool Zhar, and other Jedi on other planets. He learned from each. But in the end, he turned back to me. When he realized there was nothing more to be learned from the Jedi - except how one could leave them forever." -- Kreia

She does? On the contrary, this is what she said to me: "The fact that our father chose battle is not shameful, but that is not the reason he went to war. He went to war to be with the one he loved, but not the one he had pledged himself to. He was disloyal. I am the mark of that disloyalty. It is said that such things run in the blood, and I have fought long to prove that this is not so. That is why I am different from my sisters. Yet I am pledged to them and Atris, and I would die before betraying them. I tell you this in trust, and ask that you not speak of it to others. I only wish you to know. Because when my father returned from the Mandalorian Wars, he walked as you do now. There was something wounded inside him. He did not speak of what had happened there. And with us, he was silent. Changed." As a great Echani warrior I very much doubt he would have reacted this way if his lover had heroically fallen in battle. Instead, his silent, changed and wounded behaviour fits perfectly with having witnessed his lover's fall to the dark side - becoming everything Yusanis had spent his life struggling against. The more I read, the clearer it becomes.

Nice one, Janson!!

True, especially with the existing abrupt ending. However, a lot of unused sound files indicate that a larger ending had been developed - one where a number of supporting characters were called upon either to side with the Exile or against. When Handmaiden pledged her loyalty to the Exile she promised to honour him as she honours the face of her mother. Handmaiden's character would have found itself in an ideally tormented struggle at the end if caught having to choose between the Exile and a Kreia ultimately revealed to be her long lost mother. *sigh*

Good to know. Thanks Zilod.

By the way, when I was receiving around +4 Strength from my lightsabre's personal crystal I wasn't able to get additional Strength from the Ankarres Sapphire, even if it was installed in the same lightsabre. I think it might be a bug.

Here's the moment Handmaiden decides to seek jedification: Why would Kreia say "And so it ends" ? What has ended? And why didn't she say anything like that upon the jedification of Mira or Atton? Also... Kreia said the following about Revan: "And when he awakened to his potential, I was there to see it." When, in Kreia's mind, did Revan awaken to his potential? And where was she when she saw it? Malachor V ??

Looked a bit too and didn't found still Forna was quite sure about a clear reference maybe he will point us to the dialogue <{POST_SNAPBACK}> "Revan had many Masters. Zhar, Dorak, Master Kae before Kae left for the Wars." -- Disciple And several masters say this exact same line if asked about Revan's masters.

Here's another question to consider. After Kreia/Kae/Traya resumed teaching Revan at the Malachor V academy one of the first people Revan sought to eliminate in the Jedi Civil War was General Yussanis (by then a Senator), who had fought alongside Kae at Malachor. Coincidence? Maybe Yussanis knew that Kae had actually survived, but gone to the dark side. Maybe he refused to join her and, therefore became a risk that needed to be eliminated.

They never found her body. At least she had 2 hands back then. Many characters say it - Zez Kai el (?), Kavar, Disciple. Kreia said: "Then perhaps you should know... there are techniques in the Force, where one can cloud the memory of others, make their presence so small as to be unnoticed." When the Exile asks if she is using such a technique on him she says: "No - but if I did, you would never know, so my words only carry as much worth as you believe them to." Shall we trust Kreia?

About Atton's jedification? Really? For me, the only jedification Kreia ever complained about was Handmaiden's. This is not about proving anything. Proving is not possible. Then this whole Kreia/Kae idea would end up being a simple fact and not a theory. So, since this is just a theory then this discussion is really about disproving it. Unless a developer actually steps forward to reveal that the storyline really did include a special Kreia/Kae character then this will only ever be a theory. And all that anyone might ever concluded is that this plot element was developed, but discarded (along with so much else) from the game's final build.

I didn't get any reaction at all from Kreia about training Atton or Mira; only Handmaiden. Unfortunately, I didn't manage to train Bao-Dur. So far, I've only played as a LS male. I'm very curious about Handmaiden's role after Telos if she doesn't join your party. And does the Disciple (Mical?) also happen to reveal that his mother was one of Revan's masters, later exiled from the Order and died at Malachor V, even though her body was never recovered? Maybe there's also a "son of Kreia" plot buried in there.

For the most damaging lightsabre lens, emitter and cell I'd recommend the following: - Pontite lens, requiring Awareness of 27 to create; - Expert fencing emitter, requiring Repair of 27 to create; and - Ultimate Diatium cell, requiring Computer skill of 29 to create. You should also consider having an Expert Deflection emitter (req Repair 21) handy for occasions when you need to deflect a lot of blaster bolt fire, as well as a Superior Ion cell (req Security 25) for when you're swarmed by droids and turrets.

Ok, I've just had the coversation with Handmaiden about her mother right next to Kreia and Kreia didn't even blink. Well actually maybe she did, I couldn't really see her eyes. To be continued... g'nite. :ph34r:

Perhaps someone she trusted revealed to the Order that she'd had a child 10 years earlier. Just because we don't know of Kae's pre-exile betrayal doesn't mean there wasn't one. Furthermore, we only know of her as Darth Traya after she's already been betrayed by Sion and Nihilus. Perhaps she even considers Revan's redemption to have been a betrayal. Even if Exile's memory wasn't wiped (although he didn't even recognise Bao-Dur) then keep in mind that Kae's relationship to Yussanis was secret. I don't even recall hearing that they were married. "Jedi don't have families" as Mira said. And given that the 10 year-old Handmaiden had no recollection of her mother it seems reasonable that the Exile never knew of her.

Yeah right. Next you'll be trying to tell us that Darth Vader was Luke's father. Let's face it, the last place you'd find interesting plot twists like that is in a Star Wars storyline.

Ok so here's a possible version of what happened: Revan's former master, Arren Kae, was exiled for secretly having a child with the Echani General. The secret was revealed 10 years later and she was exiled by the Jedi council. Following that she joined Revan at Malachor and, while everyone thought she had perished, she was actually secretly discovering and re-establishing the Trayus Academy. This is when she resumed being Revan's master, beginning the second apprenticeship that Kreia mentions having with Revan. Revan then finds the Star Forge, attacks the Republic and gets captured. Following the events of KotOR I, Revan recovers his memory of Kae/Kreia and the Trayus Academy, but insists he must go to Malachor V to face it alone. What happened there is not clear. Perhaps Revan found the Exile out there already under the influence of Traya. Perhaps Revan, who had studied force bonds tried to free the exile from Traya with a memory wipe and then have Admiral Onasi send the Harbinger to pick him up. [Although the Harbinger's logs indicate that the Exile was not picked up alone.] That's when Darth Traya (Kae/Kreia) was cast out by Sion and Nihilus. Maybe they were jealous about the attention she was paying to the exile or maybe she got reattached to Revan against their interests. Whatever happened, she managed to escape Malachor V on the Ebon Hawk that Revan had arrived on, but with Sion pursuing her and the Exile, already on the Harbinger. The rest is history... I'm trying to be a bit scientific about this - that is to say that a theory can be valid until proven wrong. :D

At the end, Kreia says that "there must always be a Darth Traya." This makes it sound more like a title than her actual name. And according to Atris, "Kreia? Oh... that is not her name." And Atris seemed to know Kreia personally when they finally met at the polar academy. It certainly helps explain why the story focused earlier on Atris being concerned about not having met the "old woman" that the handmaiden sisters had penned up.

The only way Kreia was not Master Kae is if Revan had 2 female masters who were each exiled by the council and who each were thought to have died fighting the Mandalorians at Malachor V. I suppose anything's possible. "