Dragon Age

[Maria Caliban]

A great deal of infos coming from GDC about Dragon Age and the 30 minute demo they showed there.

 

First, here's a 6 minute combat demo link. It has no narration; it's just 6 minutes of combat so it's spoiler free.

 

In case anyone wonders, the player disabled the 'floating text' for damage and the circle indicators, and is playing

Edited March 31, 2009 by Maria Caliban

[Tigranes]

They have all the ingredients of a good game, plus some genuinely interesting ideas that haven't made it into any other game quite yet.

 

The newest of these ingredients

[Maria Caliban]

I liked having PC VOs in Mass Effect. I thought it added to the game. However, I don't feel that every RPG needs that element. If nothing else, you'd need a minimum of six different voices (three races, two genders) and the PC in Dragon Age has more lines than in ME, which would make doing so prohibitive.

 

Gift giving was in Arcanum as well, and I thought it was fine. I wouldn

[Pop]

so it's just weird to see an emotional plea fall on the apparently deaf ears of "my" character who can't even talk or so much as lift an eyebrow in response to being yelled at. I guess Shepard having the power of speech in Mass Effect spoiled me.

For someone who proclaims such love for BG2 he forgets about it rather easily.

[~Di]

Thanks for the links, Maria!

[Tigranes]

Gift giving was in Arcanum as well

 

It was? I never took a lot of companions because the combat gets crazy. I guess it depends on how overboard (or not) they go.

 

PC VOs aren't bad in and of themselves, I just hate the way, just like NPC VOs, people come to expect it as a standard.

[Maria Caliban]

Thanks for the links, Maria!

 

Glad to do it.

 

Gift giving was in Arcanum as well

 

It was? I never took a lot of companions because the combat gets crazy. I guess it depends on how overboard (or not) they go.

 

PC VOs aren't bad in and of themselves, I just hate the way, just like NPC VOs, people come to expect it as a standard.

 

There were certain items that, if given to your companions in Arcanum, would increase how much they liked you. I remember the drunken half-orc liked alcohol while the elven 'romance' female liked little elven religious idols.

 

I

[Tigranes]

It happened to a degree in MOTB, with the special feats you'd gain that directly affected your combat performance if your influence rating hit the milestones.

 

edit: I think I'll go to work early, so I can watch the combat vid without suffering the home internet.

[Slowtrain]

[What is his obsession with NEW NEW NEW? Did games in the old days steal his girlfriend and put walnuts in his cream pie?

 

 

old = bad.

 

A new generation of gamers rules the roost.

[Tigranes]

Great, so I'm 21 and I'm already over the hill.

 

Saw the vids, combat is the same as it's always been; BG/NWN style RTwP with characters ice-skating past each other in true three-dee fashion (sigh). I had hoped they'd actually evolve the system by integrating cover and such more, but that's going to be difficult if they've still got the issues with skating models, because you can't really manage area effectively. Still, I don't really mind - what really matters is how complex and challenging it will be.

 

Setting and story gets even worse every time we see it though. It is LOTR. There is absolutely no doubt now. >.<

[Volourn]

It isn't LOTR. There is no doubt about that ever. having similarities isn't the same as being the same.

[Maria Caliban]

Great, so I'm 21 and I'm already over the hill.

 

Saw the vids, combat is the same as it's always been; BG/NWN style RTwP with characters ice-skating past each other in true three-dee fashion (sigh). I had hoped they'd actually evolve the system by integrating cover and such more, but that's going to be difficult if they've still got the issues with skating models, because you can't really manage area effectively. Still, I don't really mind - what really matters is how complex and challenging it will be.

 

Setting and story gets even worse every time we see it though. It is LOTR. There is absolutely no doubt now. >.<

 

Cover is integrated. If you're behind a pillar/boxes, arrows fired at you won't reach you while damage from spells will be lessened. If you're on higher ground, you get bonuses to defending and attacking. Certain terrain slows movement.

 

Or are you thinking something like Mass Effect where you're constantly ducking behind stuff for cover? That would be interesting, though harder to integrate into the tactical view.

 

The big story is fighting the Blight, which is a evil, mindless horde - in that, it's like Lord of the Rings - but we've known that for over a year. I'm not sure what you're refering to when you say there's 'no doubt' that this is Lord of the Rings now. The more I learn about the setting, the less like Lord of the Rings it seems to me.

[Volourn]

It's fantasy. To most everyone that seems to mean LOTR by default. *shrug*

[Maria Caliban]

Elves are everyone's b*tches in Dragon Age, so that's more like the Witcher. Dwarves give lip service to honor and duty, but most noble houses use assasination and trechery to get ahead while casteless dwarves are thought to have no soul. I do recall a fantasy story like that, but I don't know which one. The humans of Ferelden are barbarians compared to their neighbors, which is more Conan. The quanri are a race of giant militant Buddists, while the human religion IMHO is a very cynical take on real world Christianity.

 

I do agree that Dragon Age borrows from other fantasy works, even LotR, but disgree that it *is* LotR.

[Hell Kitty]

As expected, the recent batch of games have cultivated a particular expectation from players, and games who don't follow will suffer.

 

Did Fallout 3 suffer for lack of player character voice? It's hardly surprising (or unreasonable) to compare Bio's last game with their next one.

 

Oh, and having now read the article, the "new" thing seems to be her response to the game "being touted as a "new" take on the fantasy genre". Though the article isn't nearly as cynical as your response to it.

Edited March 31, 2009 by Hell Kitty

[Meshugger]

When playing Dragon Age: Origins, I am going to replace every song in the soundtrack with Manowar's "Black wind, Fire and Steel". It would only do this game justice.

 

- "For Fereldern, chaaarBORN OF BLACK WIND, FIRE AND STEEL"

- "The Blight ends heBLACK WIND, FIRE AND STEEL"

- "Silence you dwarven scum! I should teach youBLACK WIND, FIRE AND STEEL"

- "Mages and their magic should not be trusted! They areBORN OF BLACK WIND, FIRE AND STEEL"

 

*Intimate moment*

 

-"Why do i have....these feelings for you? It's like...i can't stop smiling every time I see you, why is this? When i look into your eyes, i feel comfortness and peace. Why?"

-"ReXona, my Elven princess, i also have to tell you thatI AM AN OUTCAST ON THE PATH OF NO RETURN

PUNISHER AND SWORDSMAN

I WAS BORN TO BURN

 

BLACK WIND ALWAYS FOLLOWS

WHERE MY BLACK HORSE RIDES

 

FIRE IS IN MY SOUL

STEEL IS ON MY SIDE

 

BORN OF BLACK WIND....

 

*SEXSCENE*

 

 

 

 

 

 

I can hardly wait.

[Maria Caliban]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1yyGqAWZac

 

That song makes my ears wish for death.

[Tigranes]

I was at work before, so couldnt' elaborate. Here:

 

The bit in the video where they get ready for the eeevil zombies and there is the whole top down camera panning as they scram, the epic music, hell even the exact style of pseudo-medieval phrasing in the dialogue - if you replaced one of the party members with Gimli it would fit in 100%.

 

To be fair, I haven't read up a lot about DA's story/setting; I don't see being forced to become a Grey Warden as that big of a deal (you've got to be forced into something for the story to work) and there are plenty of opportunities for that seemingly disgusting hero-King to develop in interesting ways. We won't know until the game's out. The point is that the stylistic decisions behind how DA's story is delivered is very LOTR, in almost every single bit of footage we've seen. The content is not so much the problem - you could put that Red Cliff stuff in BG1 and it would fit right in without a single change - but the delivery. Heck, I liked the origin stories as well. But if they're going to filter all that content through this over-the-top wannabe LOTR'ing like it seems to in current footage I'm going to have a hard time not feeling embarrassed that I'm playing this game.

 

So that is what I mean by "it is LOTR".

 

All I ever expected and wanted from DA was a game that provided gameplay similar to, or in the tradition of, BG1/2, meaning tactical party combat with some degree of strategy (absent in KOTOR); some good old looting and pillaging; big cities and areas with sidequests; a decent story and setting that set the stage for some fun and interesting situations. I'm still hopeful we'll get that. But I didn't expect them to fall so far down the path of what they think is "good cinematic storytelling". I like NPCs with character but I don't want to sit there playing thinly disguised dating sims/eroges with NPCs that go through exaggerated midlife crises like an arsenal of Carths. I like epic and I like fantasy but I don't want to sit there through fifty cutscenes with "WE STAND THIS DAY... AGAINST EVILLLL".

[Niten_Ryu]

Did Fallout 3 suffer for lack of player character voice? It's hardly surprising (or unreasonable) to compare Bio's last game with their next one.

 

Based on really good sales, probably not. Same with lack on non-verbal communication by wooden NPCs. I don't think there're many who refuse to buy game based on lack of player character voice or non-verbal communication but it's surely something that many notice nowadays if it's missing. I played Mass Effect a lot before Fallout 3 and it probably made above issues even more obvious, thus hurting my overall enjoyment of the game. Also it didn't help that outside of Malcolm McDowell's brilliant President Eden, most voice acting was monotonic and dry.

[Junai]

I was at work before, so couldnt' elaborate. Here:

 

The bit in the video where they get ready for the eeevil zombies and there is the whole top down camera panning as they scram, the epic music, hell even the exact style of pseudo-medieval phrasing in the dialogue - if you replaced one of the party members with Gimli it would fit in 100%.

 

To be fair, I haven't read up a lot about DA's story/setting; I don't see being forced to become a Grey Warden as that big of a deal (you've got to be forced into something for the story to work) and there are plenty of opportunities for that seemingly disgusting hero-King to develop in interesting ways. We won't know until the game's out. The point is that the stylistic decisions behind how DA's story is delivered is very LOTR, in almost every single bit of footage we've seen. The content is not so much the problem - you could put that Red Cliff stuff in BG1 and it would fit right in without a single change - but the delivery. Heck, I liked the origin stories as well. But if they're going to filter all that content through this over-the-top wannabe LOTR'ing like it seems to in current footage I'm going to have a hard time not feeling embarrassed that I'm playing this game.

 

So that is what I mean by "it is LOTR".

 

All I ever expected and wanted from DA was a game that provided gameplay similar to, or in the tradition of, BG1/2, meaning tactical party combat with some degree of strategy (absent in KOTOR); some good old looting and pillaging; big cities and areas with sidequests; a decent story and setting that set the stage for some fun and interesting situations. I'm still hopeful we'll get that. But I didn't expect them to fall so far down the path of what they think is "good cinematic storytelling". I like NPCs with character but I don't want to sit there playing thinly disguised dating sims/eroges with NPCs that go through exaggerated midlife crises like an arsenal of Carths. I like epic and I like fantasy but I don't want to sit there through fifty cutscenes with "WE STAND THIS DAY... AGAINST EVILLLL".

 

Don't worry. You'll get to choose between human mage, dwarven fighter, and elven archer. When you depress the controller X-button, the mobile will shoot and attack continuously. You don't have to think, just point your avatar towards what's coming and depress the button. Every 30 seconds your guy will shout "for ferelden!". Everytime he gains a level he'll do the same. There's 10 levels. After that you'll meet Sauron. It'll be cool dude, just grab a few beers, sit down with some friends and hack away at each other. If they get bored you can always insert the EA-Soccer dvd instead.

 

Cheers d00d..

 

J.

Edited March 31, 2009 by Junai

[Meshugger]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1yyGqAWZac

 

That song makes my ears wish for death.

 

That's just the nurturing feminine side of you that is screaming, kicking and begging you not to surrender to the almighty hammer of manlitude. Don't worry, it will pass. After all, everyone is born as a virgin.

 

I still yearn for an RPG where the dialogue is exclusively extracted from the Manowar discography. I mean, wouldn't Dragon Age be indefinately better if the King of Ferelden had the following to say to his men before meeting the...eh, evildoers:

 

Brothers I am calling from the valley of the kings

With nothing to atone

A dark march lies ahead, together we will ride

Like thunder from the sky

May your sword stay wet like a young girl in her prime

Hold your hammers high

 

Blood and death are waiting like a raven in the sky

I was born to die

Hear me while I live

As I look into your eyes

None shall hear a lie

Power and dominion are taken by the will

By divine right hail and kill

 

Hail, Hail, Hail, Hail and Kill, Hail and Kill

Hail, Hail, Hail, Hail and Kill, Hail and Kill

 

My father was a wolf

I'm a kinsman of the slain

Sworn to rise again

I will bring salvation, punishment and pain

The hammer of hate is our faith

Power and dominion are taken by the will

By divine right hail and kill

 

Hail, Hail, Hail, Hail and Kill, Hail and Kill

Hail, Hail, Hail, Hail and Kill, Hail and Kill

 

Come on, what kind of warrior wouldn't be riled up by that kind of speech? Instead, we have to suffer from another oxfordian englishman, talking as gay and LOTR-esque as possible.

Edited March 31, 2009 by Meshugger

[Hurlshort]

LotR Sux.

[Azure79]

I'm with Tigranes. All I really want is some really nice tactical combat in the spirit of the IE games with a good story and setting to back it up. I hope the origin stories really do change the game's story a lot with NPCs treating your PC different according to race and gender.

 

Don't really mind that the art direction is similar to the recent LOTR movies. I just hope the story is more deeper than, 'As the chosen Grey Warden, you must go to location A, B, C and D to collect the pieces of the legendary artifact, which when put together will create the ultimate weapon/ show us where the Big Evil is/ and conquer the Blight forever.

 

AH! I'm so starved for a new swords and sorcery RPG right now I'll play anything. Really looking forward to this game.

 

Hmm, I just watched the combat vid, and the animations seems really...awkward. Swords and shields don't clash against each other, monsters just run up, stand still and swing using two repeating animations. Enemies fall over and die while your character is in mid swing. Even KotOR had lightsabers clashing and parrying. Hope they add more animations for combat in the final product.

Edited March 31, 2009 by Azure79

[Purkake]

3/4 of the video is a wizard shooting various colorful spells at some kind of "orks". It didn't even seem to be very effective...

 

Massive battles just don't work with DnD-style quasi turn-based combat, the animations have always looked awkward when battling more than one enemy. Drakensang did that ok, but characters still ran around in combat before getting into the fight animation. I agree that they need more parrying animations.

 

This looks more and more like a fantasy Mass Effect, we'll see about that "dark heroic fantasy".

 

EDIT: The gift thing seems straight out of a Japanese dating sim, wth? So if one of my party members doesn't like me slaughtering a bunch of children, I can fix it by giving them some trinkets? Just don't give them rocks ha-ha...

 

They also mentioned DLC in the latest Giant Bomb podcast.

Edited March 31, 2009 by Purkake

[Maria Caliban]

I think you guys are going overboard on the gift giving. Seriously, if you hate the idea of parting with that diamond tiara, you don