Chris Avellone's Blog

An isometric old-school RPG.

 

The setting isn't terribly important to me. Sci-fi would be the most interesting but go with what the studio loves and return to your roots for what made you guys amazing in the first place. You guys hold a special place in my childhood and I would pay big money to see another game made that rivals your Planescape and Icewind Dale days.

I would love (in that order):

* Alpha Protocol 2 (though you need to fix the PC camera problems)

* Another RPG on the Planescape setting

* An isometric Fallout RPG.

With so many ideas and such here (though most are just Planescape 2) it may be a better idea if the OE team just came up with a few pitches and then had us vote on them.

Then Obsidian + Kickstarter = Win

 

Sorry I couldn't resist.

First off - sorry if my English isn't the best. But I think it's at least so much as understandable, that you'll understand where I'm coming from and what I want to express with what I'm writing. (mother language is German)

 

I registered myself here only for the tiny chance of telling Obsidian my personal opinion about this topic and because I think alot of the stuff certain people here suggested so far is big bull****

 

Seriously a sequel to Planescape?? Another additional game to an odd boring ugly as hell (sheesh, this game has graphics, like stoneage for a Game, that got release in the year 2000)

 

If Obsidian should use the money from such a kickstarter project, then at all for a new Console Game on PS3 and X360 and not for a ****ty sequel of an ancient PC game that nearly no ass knows compared to other console Games Obsidian made.

 

Obsidian hasn't made yet really much own games yet. Most games from them were yet orders from other companies, like Square Enix, bioWare or Bethesda Softworks for whom they made Games for them and none of them were basically real classical RPG's mostly likely all only either Hack & Slash's or Action Adventures with a tiny bit of RPG elements inside them.

The only true own Game of Obsidian so far is ALPHA PROTOCOL and if there is anything of which obsidian should make from the kickstarter project's money a sequel for, then I think it would be best for Obsidian to make Alpha Protocol 2

 

Yes, Alpha Protocol surely wasn't the best seller of a game but it was a new game, a start of a new own Obsidian franchise and total new franchises often have the problem that their starts don't create instantly sales miracles and hit on the market like bombs, especially if the games receive not much of marketing money for trailers, tv spots ect. pp

You also can't expect from complete new franchises, that they sell themself instantly like well known successful game series' like Final Fantasy, Metal Gear Solid, Tekken, Super Mario ect. pp but I definetely think Alpha Protocol was by far a good enough game to have it earned to receive a better sequel which optimizes some of the gameplay mechanics from the prequel, adds a few more mechanics and improvements to the gameplay systems and here and there some more typical eye candy via rendered sequences in the style of classical RPG's ala Final Fantasy and Alpha Protocol 2 would go for a really good sequel that would let part 1 stand into the shades. including also some kind of Online Gameplay Mode to Alpha Protocol 2 would just make it perfect...

 

However, thats so far only my stand point in regard of a possible AP2, when Obsidian should make a sequel game.

I personally rather would love it, if Obsidian would make with the help of that money a complete new game for X360, PS3 and PC adding some kind of possible stallion to their game's list that will work in future as another kind of trademark for Obsidian. A real RPG-Game, thats not just a super boring ugly as hell Game like Planescape with ancient old gameplay a la turnbased Battles with an isometric angle of camera view.

These kind of games are absolutely OUT and surely not something, that will guarantee Obsidian a huge throw of sales to make a big profit.

Obsidian is also just only a company, that wants to make profit and therefore, they have to make games, which have a really high potential to sell very well and that not only in like 1 or 2 countries.. no ...worldwide to earn in for Obsidian as much as possible profit with as less as possible given out money to produce the game. To reach this goal, obsidian has to make a good choice about what games they should consider to make and which possible games would be just only a waste of time and money.

Planescape is absolutely such a game.. a sequel to that game would mostly likely absolutely FLOP and earn in no profit for Obsidian.

 

A real RPG of AAA-Class with the help of kickstarter would have there a much better chance to sell very well, if the game hits the taste of the masses, has very good graphics and gameplay systems and last but not least a gorgeous story that keeps u playing this game for hours over hours over hours and after like 100-200+ hours your realize that you still haven't seen everything and done everything in that game, what the game has to offer to you.

 

Best example for such kind of sandbox RPG's are games like Elder Scrolls 5 Skyrim and Star Ocean 4: Last Hope as both games offer to the gamer content, that really stands for 1 very important terminus - long term motivation & replayability

 

No one wants today to pay for games like 60-70 Euro and like for all you Amaricans out there even more in Dollars to get a game, that you play through in like 2-3 days and then the game offers to you even nothing, that will make you replay the game multiple times to give you some kind of long term motivation...

No, when I play a AAA- real RPG game, then I expect a game, that offers mee even afte playing the main story through enough long term motivation and replayability options, that I'll have to play the game for like 100-200 hours, before I have finally seen and done everything in that game, because only when a RPG offers THIS, then the game was absolutely really worth its money!!

 

 

I'd love to see from Obsidian a new classical RPG with a really good and long fantasy story.

A game which will have from begin to its end the goal by the developers to be a rival to RPG's like FF, Skyrim, Star Ocean, Infinite Undiscovery, Dragon Age, the newly Kingdoms of Amalur or upcoming Action RPG's like the Witcher 2, which are all RPG's of a type of quality, which are all far beyond all of Obsidians "Wannabe-RPG's"

 

I especially love classiclal hybrid story RPG's which are a mixture of Medieval Fantasy and Science Fiction. Games like Final Fantasy 7, 8, 10, 12 13/13-2 or especialy my most beloved RPG series - Star Ocean comes there into my mind which is a RPG series, which has so far a little similar system of conversation system, like BioWare and Obsidian experienced it in their games Dragon Age 1+2 as also Alpha Protocol where you have in conversations multiple answer options.

In Star Ocean these special conversation options are called "Private Actions" and this system so far sadly lacks of this conversation feature of having multiple answering options.

 

For me personally it would be a great improvement to the Star Ocean series, if this gameplay feature could find either into a complete selfmade new game of Obsidian that is set into a medieval sci-fi world ala Star Ocean/ Phantasy Star, or if Obsidian would work together again with Square Enix to make Star Ocean 5 come true!!

 

Star Ocean 5 as another sequel of the Star Ocean franchise would be definetely a game which has absolutely the potential to be a top seller game, as its a game series with a huge fan base, its an already well known and successful game, otherwise it wouldnt have already 4 parts...

A game franchise, which isnt really good, wouldn't get even a single sequel game at all....

Star Ocean 4 alone hitted in the first few weeks in Japan the market like a bomb and sold there like like few weeks over 350000 copies after release

 

A poor sequel for a game like Planescape I guess wouldn't even reach these sales after like multiple months!!!

 

Tri Ace made already last year a Tech Demo, that showed a possible Star Ocean 5 and if its just only a question again of a producer or publisher to jump into the boat, then I think could obsidian do this job surely wioth a little self investitation and together with this kickstarter project here.

Due to the point that Obsidian already worked together with Square Enix and made for them Dungeon Siege 3, why not work this time together with another great RPG Maker, that has also worked together with SE already - Tri Ace ??? SE ist at the moment working on alot of other games and has surely not the time to work on SO5, so why shouldn't Obsidian jump in and make together with Tri ace this great game alot of people are waiting for, since Tri Ace announced this tech demo...

Thats at least what I personally mostly hoped for, once I've had read this article.

 

For all of you, that don't know the Star Ocean series and want to know about what i'm talking of, here's the last years Tech Demo from Star Ocean that sets the hopes high for a someday maybe announced SO5:

 

As much as I would like a sequel to Torment, Arcanum or Alpha Protocol, the more you think about it, I think Obsidian are really better off if they get to decide what they want to do themselves. I mean, think about it. Most of us agree on that the most important part of a game is a unique and memorable setting, and immersive storytelling. Now let's examine the respective strengths of these games:

• Torment: A unique setting (Planescape). The setting is interpreted in such a way that we find no fantasy stereotypes (no elves, no swords, et.c.). The story plays with philosophical and metaphysical themes. The story is told through a huge load of text, and every part of the game is different from the other, and adds a unique aspect to the story (take the different companions, for example).
  
• Arcanum: The world of Arcanum, one of the most memorable created in the 21st century in my personal opinion. The setting is a realist interpretation of what would happen when an industrial revolution takes place in a classical fantasy world. Dragons are displayed at archaeological sites, Orcs are factory workers, and so on. There's a huge open world to explore and a wealth of options in character creation. Hell, even reading the manual to Arcanum was more interesting than playing "Generic Fantasy RPG X".
  
• Alpha Protocol: How can you put the stereotypical fantasy RPG hero in a modern world? Oh, he'd be a secret agent. And the goblins and orcs would be Saudi terrorists and the Russian Mafia. Essentially, this game sees our reality through a RPG looking glass. It's unique in the sense that it's a real world RPG, and it has a really heavy focus on character interactions and relations.
  

What they all have in common is the completely unique setting for the game. I have faith in Obsidian that should they be given the opportunity, they will not fail here. Since Tim Cain (project leader on Arcanum) is currently employed at Obsidian, I think what most of us would really want is Tim Cain and Chris Avellone banging their heads together, using their craziest ideas to create an original IP that is a truly creative reaction to the generic fantasy blandness we see so much today.

 

Having said that, they would probably not even be able to get access to any of the aforementioned franchises - and if that was possible, it would be so much better for Obsidian's future to invest in their own IP compared to throwing their money at some lazy publisher sitting on, say, the Arcanum IP.

 

Yeah, and good, immersive storytelling goes without saying I doubt Obsidian will let us down on that one, regardless what anyone writes here...

consoles

Get out.

First of all. Avellone, I absolutely adore your Isometric RPGs (haven't played a lot of the newer games though. I own PS:T as a big box, DVD and on GOG.com.

 

However I do not think it will be possible to finance a big game through KickStarter (yet). For starters: A D&D license alone would consume most of what you could collect and the many millions of dollars needed for a full-length RPG is frankly overwhelming.

 

Seeing your responses to Mr, Gilbert and Mr. Schafer though I kindda got thinking... Ever thought of straying to other genres? I would love to see what kind of point-and-click adventure games you could dream up. Perhaps a Hyborian adventure? Or a Gabriel Knight'ish game based on the Cthulhu Mythos? (I believe both worlds have entered the public domain already?). Developing and adventure game would also make bug-testing somewhat easier, greatly reducing the cost...

 

On a somewhat unrelated note, I would love an RPG based on the GURPS system. Heard Fallout was supposed to use it, but it was for some reason decided against. Can't believe no-one has tried it since.

Remember the old Bards Tale 1 and 2, and Dungeon Master, Eye of the Beholder??

Here is what i liked about them:

• not too big (size of world doesnt allways matter)
  
• no automapping only a compass spell that costs magic points)
  
• real dungeons were i have to paint my own maps (i liked to have my maths paper and pen ready and first find out how big this dungeon is)
  
• real riddles (not that go there pick that and then go there WoW crap)
  

and that in modern with a good story and not that hardware greedy (i mean no 3000

I don't really care about the setting of the game, just do whatever strikes your fancy, though if I were to pick one, I'd like either:

* a classic cyberpunk-ish setting, with extremely fast-firing guns, megacorporations, dehumanization through implants and weird drugs,

or:

* a fin de siecle setting, where the plot revolves around an expedition to foreign/unexplored lands. This one could have fantasy elements, like portals to another dimension, tribal magic, stuff like that. It'd be all about the clash of the imperial 'western' civilization (or a version of it) and the unknown cultures of the unexplored land.

 

I also don't really care for the turn-based combat - real-time with pause would be enough for me. But I'd like an option in which I can go make myself a sandwich, return to the computer screen and carry on with the genocide while enjoying the delicious sandwich.

 

I don't need fully voiced dialogue - I can still read.

 

What'd really matter to me though, is compelling writing/storytelling and a significant role of choice and consequence. I would love to have to make several different character builds to be able to explore all quests, all quest outcomes and all locations. I would like the game to differ depending on whether I play a saintly fool or an evil bastard. I would like to experience the consequences of my actions, not only in the ending slideshow, but during the game even. And I would like to see a faction system, similar to what you did in New Vegas.

 

I'm convinced your team has what it takes to deliver in all those respects, so I'm wishing you good luck and keeping my fingers crossed for this project. You can count on my pecuniary contributions, should you decide to go with it, as well as my buying the game when it's out.

Since Obsidian is so good at deconstructing cliches and twisting old tropes in unique ways, I think it would be interesting if they made a game about time travelers who goes back to WW2 to take over the world, but instead of helping the Nazis like in every other story involving bad guys going back in time to WW2, they help the Americans.

 

They arrive a few years before WW2 and use their technology to help America end the depression, becoming powerful political figures in the process. Eventually their leader defeats FDR in a presidential election. Then they use their technology to defeat the Axis power with ease. Since there's no constitutional amendment to limit presidential terms, their leader continues to get re-elected. They then proceed to take over Europe, defeat the Soviets and the Chinese, all while keeping the American people docile by continuously introducing new technology that makes their lives easier while they continuing to implement their agenda of global conquest.

 

The main plot of the game would be about you going back to various points in history to undo the changes these time travelers have made. History changes based on the choices you make. A choice that may seem good could end up with diastrous consequences while "bad" choices must be made to restore the timeline. For example, these time travelers are using their future tech to help America defeat the Axis powers, so you might have to sabotage that effort so that the war could be prolonged to its original length, which in turn means allowing a lot more people to die.

@Ardent

 

Everything you said?

 

I agree with it.

 

All of it.

 

You can have some sort of prize for that.

 

Anyway, the only part I'm not so comfortable with is the lack of voiced dialogue. I'm old, my eyes are ****, and voiced dialogue means that I don't have to go blind through eyestrain reading lots of dialogue.

 

If they choose to not bother with voiced-dialogue, then I hope they'll go the New Vegas route and only bother with dialogue that is actually good, rather than dialogue which is long winded. Having a book of dialogue does not a great game make, because if it did then we'd be able to make a great game by taking the content of the Twilight books and dumping them into a Twilight RPG.

 

Quality over quantity when it comes to dialogue. And if they keep the dialogue to a reasonable amount and actually concentrate on the quality of it, then they shouldn't have too much of an issue getting voice actors. And really, they can just hire amateurs or get volunteer voice work from the community, that'd be fine.

 

I woudln't be bothered if the voicework was terrible, so long as it was there. This is why I listen to audio books rather than reading, these days. My optic nerves have gone to **** due to a degenerative issue, so yeah.

 

And just give people who don't want dialogue the option to turn it off.

 

OR... make voiced dialogue an optional side pack as part of the KickStarter project or a pay-for thing on release. Like: KickStarter gets you the game, and you can pay $20 on release for a voice pack. I would be completely okay with this.

 

Completely okay.

 

But yeah, in general, I just support your ideas, Ardent.

 

It's been a while in this thread where I haven't read a post that's either been boring, or has made me sigh a long sigh of disappointment by either suggesting "PLUMSCOPE 2!" or some equally dull alternative. I really want to see Obsidian do something that isn't creatively bankrupt. I think that they could rock what expectations people have of modern RPGs with this.

Voiced dialog limits the amount of overall dialog (and is expensive), which, in turn can limit the quality of it by not being able to express the characters throughly enough.

 

If there needed to be be some, I'd rather go for VIP NPC's and leave the rest text only.

Wulf. [blah blah blah.]

 

Then report me for it. It really was detrimental to the thread and I think it makes you ten times more of a jerk for telling me that I can't speak my mind.

 

Believe me, I've put up with discrimination that would leave you foetal, and thus perhaps I'm less thin skinned. But this is a chance for Obsidian to do something brilliant, something outside the box, and something less creatively bankrupt than sequel to game I like.

 

I mean, some of the requests don't even make sense. Some of them I swear are trolling. Dungeon Keeper III for example. Really?! I thought the whole point of a project like this was to avoid the typical triple-A/publisher dross. But what defines that dross better than a sequel? Nothing! Some games were meant to be better without sequels.

 

Sequels to Planescape, Arcanum, or the likes would kill either the original game, or would leave the sequel looking terrible by comparison. Whereas if let off the leash of the aforementioned dross, then Obsidian would be able to make something equally as brilliant.

 

I mean, sure, I'm being a jerk. Fine. I admit that. But I'm not doing it to troll, I'm doing it to get people to stop and think. Instead of suggesting yet another sequel, instead of just being so creatively bankrupt yourself, why not think of what you liked about that game and suggest that instead?

 

And if you think I haven't done that, you're a selective reader and you haven't been following my posts through the thread. Buuut people do tend to be selective readers when they've decided to do a lovely bit of character assassination. Yes, I've suggested lots of things. Plenty of things. Go read.

 

And yet you pick me up on the post where I get sick of people who're just suggesting licensing one expensive IP after the other. Like I said, you're a very selective reader. That, or a naturally intellectually dishonest person.

 

Look, this talk of sequels doesn't benefit everyone. It's better if we just lay down a "NO SEQUELS" philosophy and get peope to talk about why they liked those games, instead of just getting post 1,738 which is nothing more than a list of wishful thinking and empty hope.

Voiced dialog limits the amount of overall dialog (and is expensive), which, in turn can limit the quality of it by not being able to express the characters throughly enough.If there needed to be be some, I'd rather go for VIP NPC's and leave the rest text only.

 

To say what I already said again: Quality > Quantity.

 

If quantity was more important than quality, and if having a book's worht of dialogue in a game was more important than having a small amount of good dialogue, then we could take the content of the Twilight series, dump that into a Twilight RPG, and ti would automatically make it the best RPG ever.

 

Quality is more important than quantity. Doing dialogue right and having important, non illusory choices is far, far more important than having a lot of dialogue.

...

 

Quality over quantity, sure. I agree. But consider the expenses too. Every penny spent on a voiceactor is away from something else, and this is a really limited budget thing we're talking about. They can't plan ahead too much as far as money goes as the overall budget is a subject to change up until the Kickstarter timelimit is reached (if they even put it to realisation at all, that is). Think long term.

 

Quality can be had without someone reading the text for you, and there's also the matter that how much quantity are you willing to sacrifice for quality (as well as how much quantity will hurt quality - PST had a lot of quality with minimal voiceacting, for example).

Wulf. [blah blah blah.]

Then report me for it. It really was detrimental to the thread and I think it makes you ten times more of a jerk for telling me that I can't speak my mind.

 

Except I didn't? I said you can argue posts. The only thing I said to you that you shouldn't be a **** about it and elevate your own opinions above others.

 

The devs will be smart enough to filter managable and relevant information. There's no reason for you trying to downplay others posts in the first place.

 

Also, seriously. You replace what I said with "Blah, blah, blah"? And why would I report you? This isn't criminal, just a simple call to common sense.

Agreed, this isn't the place to have a rage filled debate over ideas, even if people do want Obsidian to make Final Fantasy Five Billion...

 

 

Anyway, back to being constructive.

 

I also think that a 2.5D side-scroller would be really interesting.

 

Hang on...now that's fightin talk

Wtv you do Chris it will be awesome. So strive on sword ringer.

 

If I may, I would love to see a Dune rpg made by you. You could ask Jodorowsky for help, ahah.

 

Peace.

...

Quality over quantity, sure. I agree. But consider the expenses too. Every penny spent on a voiceactor is away from something else, and this is a really limited budget thing we're talking about. They can't plan ahead too much as far as money goes as the overall budget is a subject to change up until the Kickstarter timelimit is reached (if they even put it to realisation at all, that is). Think long term.Quality can be had without someone reading the text for you, and there's also the matter that how much quantity are you willing to sacrifice for quality (as well as how much quantity will hurt quality - PST had a lot of quality with minimal voiceacting, for example).

 

Planescape: Torment would probably be financially unfeasible today if it were voice acted. Good point. The setting and mechanics should come first; if full voice acting takes away from that to any significant degree, than full voice acting may not be worth it!

 

And text is absolutely higher quality than full voice acting, as it can simply be rewritten. If they record a dialog and decide something sounds better afterwards, they probably have to rerecord and what not.

Agreed, this isn't the place to have a rage filled debate over ideas, even if people do want Obsidian to make Final Fantasy Five Billion

Just thought I would emphasize this point...

@ArdentEverything you said?I agree with it.All of it.You can have some sort of prize for that.

 

Thanks!

 

Anyway, the only part I'm not so comfortable with is the lack of voiced dialogue. I'm old, my eyes are ****, and voiced dialogue means that I don't have to go blind through eyestrain reading lots of dialogue.

 

I said that, because I'm aware how expensive voice actors are (especially the good ones). Basically, Undecaf gave the arguments I would have given, so I won't rehash what's been said already.

I'll be happy with a small amount of VA to quickly get the flavour of the personality across, then bring on the walls of text, PS:T and NWN2 did this, it works nicely

Indeed, minimal voice acting is the best of both worlds imo. Ditching some VA seems like it would be less of a big deal that way.

I didn't think to make any writing suggestions, but try not to hide important details about the protagonist from the player, if the character is supposed to know it. It can make role-playing very difficult. Also, no MotB style situations where in the ending the protagonist can randomly love Kelemvhor instead of opposing him and no longer want to tear down the wall.