Game looks incredibly easy

[Occursus]

 

 

 

I saw him playing, he is playing a really strong multiclass, probably one of the best out there, and its true that it seams easy some times, but it's mostly against low lvl enemies, so you could enable level scaling if you think that will make the game more challenging for your.

 

He has hight armor without speed penalty, bonus unnarmed damage, a speed buff with a lighting leash, his own passive lighting leash, and each time he changes form he heals for half hp. Its close in power to a solo run build.

Nah, the main problem is the health system, he is just spamming heal spells. The last fight I saw: he was almost dying, then he proceeded to use consecrated grounds, holy radiance and restore minor endurance, his entire party was full health again, just after that he used his build to melt the enemy. After the combat he didn't need to rest and his tank was ok. If it was PoE 1 he would have to at least watch out for his health, which can't receive heals over and over again.

 

 

Soooo… Essentially the problem, if I understand correctly, is that he does not need to rest between each or most fights, is that it ?

 

 

Because at the end of the day, that the spells and abilities heal Health or Endurance, in Pillars or Deadfire, it changes nothing unless the fight really drags out or you keep pushing for one more encounter before you rest.

 

For instance, I do not believe, even for once, in all my games in Path, that Edér was harmed so badly that I had to rest for him. I would always end up resting for other party members, and not even because of health but because I ran out of some necessary spells against some creatures, like those afflicting the party with Charmed, Dominated, Paralysis, Petrified, etc.

 

Many of those issues just make Pillars I sometimes an exercise in frustration because the game was always slowed down unnecessarily for no good reason.

 

If each encounter is some kind of challenge of its own, it would be much better at the end of the day, I’d wager.

 

It is a video game after all. It is not tabletop. Some mechanics have to adapt to the medium at some point.

 

No the main problem is that we don't have Health to worry about anymore, we don't need to use buffs to diminish damage received, we don't need to watch out for debuffs, we can just heal, because we only have endurance now.

 

 

It has nothing to do with Health. Nothing. At all.

 

 

You still need to mitigate damage, because if you do not care about that you are going to get stump pretty bad because you will not be able to heal as fast as you are taking damage. Especially true for those really squishy characters that might be tagging along with you, to the remote corners of Eora.

 

 

If you do not die inside the fight, it does not matter, ultimately. Because you will end up resting after anyway. Which is pointless if you have to do it for no other reasons than attrition.

 

 

If you tell me that it is more realistic like that than I would also point out it would be more realistic if every time you get seriously cut by a sword, you were confined to bed for many weeks, most likely. After all, it would be more difficult ! You will have to still pay your crew and feed them while still in bed… Time to become an Eora’s merchant !

 

 

By the way, in all seriousness, you did not address any of the points I made in the post you quoted. For someone complaining about not being read appropriately earlier, you should really try to get the points I try to make and other people for that matter.

 

 

By the way, I believe there is one more thing that is quite interesting with the setup we do have right now : it would be much easier for them to adjust - aka increase or decrease if necessary - the difficulty for each difficulty setting since they can now know for a fact what you are going to have available to you in each and every encounter. At least most likely. Especially so if you choose to activate level scaling, since the encounter will be basically at the ideal level for your party. Each time.

 

You should also consider that you have, in fact, less spells and other abilities to heal you in Deadfire than you did in Pillars I, for any crucial encounter since those have a lower amount. Instead of casting five to six spells of level one, you might only be able to cast three, perhaps four ? And spells tend to have a longer casting time, and have longer recovery, too...

 

I mean, I hardly see the problem the more I think about it ^^"

No, you have a bunch of healling spells, if you want, you can watch cohhcarnage he is just spamming heals. You can use consecrated grounds 3 times in just one fight.

 

 

I have already watched it. Not all of it. But enough of it to get the gist of it.

 

In all seriousness, he could play better, but he is trying to be entertaining and most likely trying to keep up with the chat at the same time as he is playing. So, I do understand.

 

 

Sure, he does spam healing spells, but it is clearly not the best strategy. He does not even utilize crowd control, really, which is supposed to be why you tag along Aloth. The best way to play these games is to mitigate damage, not healing it.

 

 

He often gets away with it because, if you watch it carefully, his main character, though badly build, is still pretty powerful. Particularly if you consider the fact he has access to no less than something akin to five Second Wind with his animal forms.

 

It is also pretty interesting to notice that he is almost consistently on the brink of death. With no resources left to heal back up.

Edited May 7, 2018 by Occursus

[Taurus]

C

 

 

O plz STFU.

 

I have a triple frozen crown under my belt, and during battles I've never had to worry about health. Only after the battles or before an important battle, should I rest? Should I go to town? But never during a fight. 

So yes, they are removing an aspect of the game, but removing and saying it's easier it's like saying you want "emcumbrance" in PoE because every other RPG has it.

Well, I have The Ultimate achievement as a Monk and even in a solo run as non-healer high health class, health was definitely an issue for a few fights (especially a certain fight, you know what I mean). Now the game is obviously balanced around party play where you might have a dedicated healer on top of Healing Potions, Shod-in-Faith, Moon Godlike etc. so saying health system was irrelevant in Pillars 1 is simply not true.

 

Congrats on TU , but you do know that is a very different case when you solo. Specially balance wise.

Edited May 7, 2018 by Taurus

[Sceptenar]

Wow! A triple frozen crown! You are so good! 

And no, I'll not "STFU". 

 

 

Frozen crown is nothing to scoff at, I know, I got "The Ultimate" myself. People come at the game with very different expectations and skills. Speaking for myself I have to say getting the "The Ultimate" was one of the least enjoyable gameplay experiences I've gone through. You may very well be excellent at the game, some will find Path of the Damned too easy, many will find it too hard. You just have to accept that you will never get a game that is perfectly tuned for you, but with the Blessings of Berath options you have the choice to make the game harder. I won't do that, I'm into this game for the worldbuilding and the story. Both preferences are ok. So please calm down and maybe wait until the game is out to say whether or not it's too easy.  

[Sirrick]

A little question: Lvl scaling makes the game harder or easier

[anathanielh]

A little question: Lvl scaling makes the game harder or easier

Depends on whether you scale the levels down or only upwards.

[KentDA]

I've seen up to part 5 and he got heavily injured at least once. He's also implied that the build is powerful but that it will taper off in time. And yes, I have seen him chug a number of potions.

 

Also, as others have said, its "normal" for the first couple dungeons in an RPG to be easier than the rest. Because they have to make sure the players know the important basic mechanics.

 

If we were talking stuff from the equivalent of act 2, we could talk. But the first island you land on is pretty much going to be "tutorial mode".

[taviow]

I also wish POTD had been tougher for release but I think it's a reasonable thing to balance later. I hope that when they do, POTD becomes fairly punishing, because I really enjoy the combat system in Pillars 1 and experiencing it through tough situations and figuring out how to solve them.

Edited May 7, 2018 by taviow

[Koth]

I think the problem as others have stated is that Cohh's multi is quite strong.... in the early game... I think the fact that the shifter's spiritshifts scale with power level and not character level will catch up with him late game...

 

That said, I do agree that although I like Cohh, he really does have no idea how to play the game. He rarely if ever buffs, he is constantly forgetting to cast his monk's lightning speed buff which is kind of the whole point of the build. He doesn't understand penetration system, nor how to buff / debuff to make the most of it... and he is basically cheesing his way though fights by chain-potting... 

 

But, as others have said, I have faith that Josh and the team will get around to tuning PotD to a level to which we are more accustomed.

 

Personally, I'll play the game just to listen to... every... thing... that... Xoti... says.. I love her character so much, and that accent... man...

[HAWmaro]

I mean the guy is throwing a tantrum and you can mock all you want but he is right at least partially, Heals seem to be too strong in deadfire and this essentially the health/endurance change's fault(wow another injury based system is a failure, you'd think Tyranny would've taught them otherwise) and perhaps poor balacing of the spells themselves and HAS NOTHING to do with the rest system itself, and it seems enough to trivialise the game maybe.  

Based on Cohh stream, the game on POTD seems MUCH MUCH easier than poe on POTD. Basically if coh was playing the way he is now on POE POTD he'd wipe every 2 or 3 fights, but he seems to breezing throught he game overall, that would be fine on normal, maybe on Hard. But not POTD. Hope mods or an early patch fix this.

Edited May 7, 2018 by HAWmaro

[AlphaShard]

O plz STFU.

 

I have a triple frozen crown under my belt, and during battles I've never had to worry about health. Only after the battles or before an important battle, should I rest? Should I go to town? But never during a fight. 

 

So yes, they are removing an aspect of the game, but removing and saying it's easier it's like saying you want "emcumbrance" in PoE because every other RPG has it.

 

Nice to see someone is l33t I guess, I lost count of how many times my main rogue died. They are fragile those rogues, can't take a hit at all even with plate mail on. 

[trashplayer]

I saw him playing, he is playing a really strong multiclass, probably one of the best out there, and its true that it seams easy some times, but it's mostly against low lvl enemies, so you could enable level scaling if you think that will make the game more challenging for your.

 

He has hight armor without speed penalty, bonus unnarmed damage, a speed buff with a lighting leash, his own passive lighting leash, and each time he changes form he heals for half hp. Its close in power to a solo run build.

 

Actually, due to how the power level works, multiclass monk suffers from lower unarmed bonus and druid their form. The benefit of this combination is dubious, not even counting the lack of casting when shifting. Have to concede seeing a werefoo jumpkicking is fun though.

[Erik Dirk]

OK, so the healing "discussion" looks like it got a bit out of hand, however I would like to say, I really don't like how healing and Resurrection oriented, deadfire seems to be, I mean Kamikaze Paladin as a high level ability, seriously?

Hopefully for POE3 Character could have a smaller health pool than POE1 which gets refreshed after each battle. Ie, no need to rest yet you can simply spam healing

[geala]

This is a strange example of discussion. The OP seems to have one measurement for difficulty, the PoE splitted kind of health in absolute health and relative health. A rather artificial system, but who cares if the game is build around it? 

 

Removing the double-health system and using a "common" health system as replacer does tell us nothing about game difficulty without context. If only this system is difficult and all other is "too easy", there was only one difficult game ever in our world, PoE1, and there never will be a difficult game again for us to see.

 

Wether PoED is difficult will depend on the relation of healing and damage and the situations in which what is applyable and applied when. We should wait and play the game to the end.

[Starwars]

I think the problem as others have stated is that Cohh's multi is quite strong.... in the early game... I think the fact that the shifter's spiritshifts scale with power level and not character level will catch up with him late game...

 

That said, I do agree that although I like Cohh, he really does have no idea how to play the game. He rarely if ever buffs, he is constantly forgetting to cast his monk's lightning speed buff which is kind of the whole point of the build. He doesn't understand penetration system, nor how to buff / debuff to make the most of it... and he is basically cheesing his way though fights by chain-potting... 

 

But, as others have said, I have faith that Josh and the team will get around to tuning PotD to a level to which we are more accustomed.

 

Personally, I'll play the game just to listen to... every... thing... that... Xoti... says.. I love her character so much, and that accent... man...

 

Ugh, this sounds rather disappointing. Haven't watched the streams but being able to play a game just fine on the highest difficulty level without understanding the mechanics and using them in your gameplay doesn't sound promising. I think that should be the case even on Normal, and certainly on Hard, but...

[molotov.]

 

 

 

 

I haven't played the beta but I'm certain that the difficulty doesn't stay the same throughout the game. Keep your pants on and enjoy the masterpiece when it's out tomorrow.

****ing hell, people don't even read the first comment? Health system is the main problem here, they already showed a end-game dungeon and it was easy because of the constantly heals.

 

Do you really expect people not to talk about the subject you yourself put in the title? If only thing you're interested in talking about is the healing, name your thread like that. A thread titled "Game looks incredibly easy" (which I very much agree with, but it's already been discussed) is just asking for trouble.

 

I thought that people on this forum read more than just the title. It seems I was wrong.

 

You post a thread calling the game easy.

 

Someone responds saying we've only seen the first part of the game, and the rest might not be that easy.

 

You lash out at them, after they merely responded to the topic in question.

 

 

Just lol mate. Just lol.

 

I post a thread calling the game easy.

 

I comment explaining why the game is easy - mainly because of the new health system.

 

People don't read the explanation.

 

People lash out me, after reading just the title.

 

Just lol mate. Just lol.

[molotov.]

I mean the guy is throwing a tantrum and you can mock all you want but he is right at least partially, Heals seem to be too strong in deadfire and this essentially the health/endurance change's fault(wow another injury based system is a failure, you'd think Tyranny would've taught them otherwise) and perhaps poor balacing of the spells themselves and HAS NOTHING to do with the rest system itself, and it seems enough to trivialise the game maybe.  

Based on Cohh stream, the game on POTD seems MUCH MUCH easier than poe on POTD. Basically if coh was playing the way he is now on POE POTD he'd wipe every 2 or 3 fights, but he seems to breezing throught he game overall, that would be fine on normal, maybe on Hard. But not POTD. Hope mods or an early patch fix this.

Yes, I have to admit I got quite angry, mainly because no one was reading my FIRST comment so I had to repeat myself 8 times. You explained my case quite well, thank you.

[XANi]

 

O plz STFU.

 

I have a triple frozen crown under my belt, and during battles I've never had to worry about health. Only after the battles or before an important battle, should I rest? Should I go to town? But never during a fight. 

 

So yes, they are removing an aspect of the game, but removing and saying it's easier it's like saying you want "emcumbrance" in PoE because every other RPG has it.

 

Nice to see someone is l33t I guess, I lost count of how many times my main rogue died. They are fragile those rogues, can't take a hit at all even with plate mail on. 

 

... your rogue wears plate ?  Or is that some kind of bad joke ?

[molotov.]

 

 

 

 

 

It has nothing to do with Health. Nothing. At all.

 

 

You still need to mitigate damage, because if you do not care about that you are going to get stump pretty bad because you will not be able to heal as fast as you are taking damage. Especially true for those really squishy characters that might be tagging along with you, to the remote corners of Eora.

 

 

If you do not die inside the fight, it does not matter, ultimately. Because you will end up resting after anyway. Which is pointless if you have to do it for no other reasons than attrition.

 

 

If you tell me that it is more realistic like that than I would also point out it would be more realistic if every time you get seriously cut by a sword, you were confined to bed for many weeks, most likely. After all, it would be more difficult ! You will have to still pay your crew and feed them while still in bed… Time to become an Eora’s merchant !

 

 

By the way, in all seriousness, you did not address any of the points I made in the post you quoted. For someone complaining about not being read appropriately earlier, you should really try to get the points I try to make and other people for that matter.

 

 

 

 

I have already watched it. Not all of it. But enough of it to get the gist of it.

 

In all seriousness, he could play better, but he is trying to be entertaining and most likely trying to keep up with the chat at the same time as he is playing. So, I do understand.

 

 

Sure, he does spam healing spells, but it is clearly not the best strategy. He does not even utilize crowd control, really, which is supposed to be why you tag along Aloth. The best way to play these games is to mitigate damage, not healing it.

 

 

He often gets away with it because, if you watch it carefully, his main character, though badly build, is still pretty powerful. Particularly if you consider the fact he has access to no less than something akin to five Second Wind with his animal forms.

 

It is also pretty interesting to notice that he is almost consistently on the brink of death. With no resources left to heal back up.

 

"You still need to mitigate damage, because if you do not care about that you are going to get stump pretty bad because you will not be able to heal as fast as you are taking damage. Especially true for those really squishy characters that might be tagging along with you, to the remote corners of Eora." That is what I'm trying to explain, Cohhcarnage is able to just heal up his mistakes, and that should not be the case since we are playing a game based on CRPG and not something like Skyrim.

 

 

"If you do not die inside the fight, it does not matter, ultimately. Because you will end up resting after anyway. Which is pointless if you have to do it for no other reasons than attrition." If you reach 0 endurance and 0 health in POE 1 your character will die.

 

 

"In all seriousness, he could play better, but he is trying to be entertaining and most likely trying to keep up with the chat at the same time as he is playing. So, I do understand." Meh... Nerdcommando does that and he plays well enough.

 

"Sure, he does spam healing spells, but it is clearly not the best strategy. He does not even utilize crowd control, really, which is supposed to be why you tag along Aloth. The best way to play these games is to mitigate damage, not healing it. " And he is being able to destroy the PotD difficult with that strategy you think that is good? Sure the PotD is not balanced, Josh said that, but that wasn't the case for the Hard difficult in PoE 1. Aloth is an amazing Battlemage, you should try using him like that.

 

 

"He often gets away with it because, if you watch it carefully, his main character, though badly build, is still pretty powerful. Particularly if you consider the fact he has access to no less than something akin to five Second Wind with his animal forms." His build is ok.

 

 

"It is also pretty interesting to notice that he is almost consistently on the brink of death. With no resources left to heal back up." And he don't die... because of the new health system.

 

 

 

 

 

[molotov.]

I'm watching his stream. He shooted a barrel called "gunpowder barrel" and got surprised that it exploded and killed his character, this guy is almost finishing the game on PotD. I end my case here.

[Mygaffer]

 

Not looking up for other relevant threads on the subject, that's just lazy: https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/97171-josh-says-path-of-the-damned-difficulty-will-be-too-easy-on-launch-because-he-didnt-have-time-to-tune-it/

I'm not talking about balance tweks like Josh stated.

 

"The change of the health system make healing spells way powerfull, I can't comprehend the reason to why they changed the decent health system of the first game."

 

You should at least read the entirety of the FIRST comment on the thread before commenting anything. I'm saying that the main reason for this easy PotD is because of the new health system. It seems that the lazy here is you.

 

I haven't played Deadfire yet but I have to say I really liked the health/endurance system from the first game. I was really sad to hear it was being done away with, I thought it did a lot of good things design wise.

Edited May 8, 2018 by Mygaffer

[Baltic]

Why do you think no one’s read the first post? Actually reading their replies makes it obvious they have.

[doma]

Game is indeed very easy. 

 

Low Level characters should be fragile and there should be a certain tension at the start of an RPG.

 

I feel like and end-game character at the start of POE2. I just plow through everything. 

 

Feels weird tbh.

[SummerAnne58]

Yes Cohh is not very good. Maybe that's the point of a "non-tuned" PotD? It makes streamers look good, oooooo he's winning on the hardest difficulty here is my money!

 

I also agree with the OP's sentiment here. As long as you can brute your way through a fight you don't have to worry about the dungeon or area as a whole.

Edited May 9, 2018 by SummerAnne58

[jakl201]

I agree that healing is better in PoE 2 than it was in 1, at late game healing was a bit of a joke. It was more delaying the inevitable. In PoE 2 heals seem to...Heal. 

 

Just depends on your playstyle. Personally I'm glad that system of double health is gone, because even if I made it out of a fight, low remaining endurance pretty much forced me to rest. Now I rest to restore empower/heal wounds/gain buffs. In a game where time matters more due to crew constantly draining food/funds I find it fair. 

 

The first island is easy if you know what you're doing. But I also ran into an ambush on another that wrecked me a few times as well. 

[SummerAnne58]

I don't know if the debate is that the game can't be hard or an encounter can't be hard because it obviously can. The problem that's being presented here is that the health system allows you to brute force encounters. If you can escape an encounter by the hair on your chinny-chin-chin then you'll be completely fine after.

 

Then the mechanics of it come into play. In PoE1 any "easy" difficulty didn't matter because you could just camp giving you the same effect as above. I assume this will only be a problem for people wanting to play on harder difficulties as in PoE1 your camping was limited requiring you to be "good" to make it through a whole area/dungeon. However it could still feel cheap to some playing on "easy" difficulties if an "imposing villain" of some sort didn't leave you at least a little banged up.

 

Then there is the lore side to it. Is healing in PoE suppose to completely stitch you up? The first game would have me disbelieve this as there's plenty of Kith injured that can't simply be healed beyond a grave injury. I submit that most people won't care about the lore aspect though.

Edited May 9, 2018 by SummerAnne58