Game looks incredibly easy

[Voss]

Having to constantly burn resources (including potions- ive seen him go through quite a lot of those, despite priest, druid (and autoheals from form shift) and second wind) and action time on heals doesn't sound all that easy to me.

 

It looks more like he's barely keeping up. all those healing spells are eating, buffs, debuffs and damage spells that could be thrown.

Edited May 7, 2018 by Voss

[molotov.]

 

 

****ing hell, people don't even read the first comment? Health system is the main problem here, they already showed a end-game dungeon and it was easy because of the constantly heals.

 

 

Not sure if you perhaps have reading difficulties or not, but an increased difficulty requires increased healing. 

 

I explained 4 times by now why the health system is bad, try reading some of the comments. Or you have difficulties reading?

[Voss]

You've explained that *you believe* it is bad. That you have to repeat yourself suggests you haven't actually convinced anyone.

Edited May 7, 2018 by Voss

[molotov.]

 

 

I saw him playing, he is playing a really strong multiclass, probably one of the best out there, and its true that it seams easy some times, but it's mostly against low lvl enemies, so you could enable level scaling if you think that will make the game more challenging for your.

 

He has hight armor without speed penalty, bonus unnarmed damage, a speed buff with a lighting leash, his own passive lighting leash, and each time he changes form he heals for half hp. Its close in power to a solo run build.

Nah, the main problem is the health system, he is just spamming heal spells. The last fight I saw: he was almost dying, then he proceeded to use consecrated grounds, holy radiance and restore minor endurance, his entire party was full health again, just after that he used his build to melt the enemy. After the combat he didn't need to rest and his tank was ok. If it was PoE 1 he would have to at least watch out for his health, which can't receive heals over and over again.

 

 

Well, when i played the beta if i was a little behind in power i usually got crashed, mostly no time to heal up, if you were ok you can just sustain in easy fight. Not so much in hard, long ones.

 

It usually went:

Option 1 you win easy

Option 2 you win healling with a hard start and then goes easy

Option 3 they crash you / cc combo you and you cant heal up fast enought 

Option 4 Hard fight and it goes ok until you burn your resources and then you go dawn.

 

Its true.. that in pillars 1 you have to keep locking into the health, and some times you had to rest or even get out to the tavern to "buy more rests" but in hard fights you will rest before and go with your full hp and stamina, you will have a limit heal amount by stamina instead of just for resources but you will have way more resources in that fight.

 

So the only real change is that you dont have to break the inmersion to get out of the dungeon, cross the sea, buy more resting items and go back. That will be worse design in my opinion. And players in poe 1 tried to avoid all damage to reduce the number of rests for that reason.

 

Its just my opinion of course. And you have a lot of ways to make the game harder for yourself if you want, restrict to a single healer, or not using healers .. (that seams a nice challenge), set level scaling on .. or in the worst case scenario, go to the bb_global file and set potd damage from 100% to 150%.

 

 

 

I don't know if you noticed but you basicaly said: "it's better because it's easier now, we don't have to pay attention to the damage taken like we did in PoE 1".

[molotov.]

You've explained that *you believe* it is bad. That you have to repeat yourself suggests you haven't actually convinced anyone.

Nah, it's because people don't even read the first comment:

 

"The change of the health system make healing spells way powerfull, I can't comprehend the reason to why they changed the decent health system of the first game."

 

This is part of my first comment. I dind't said "I believe" it's bad.

 

Interesting is that only one person said anything about the health system so far.

 

Watch some of Cohhcarnage's videos or the last Q&A - that shows a end-game dungeon -, and see for yourself the new health system.

[Arctic]

 

 

 

I don't know if you noticed but you basicaly said: "it's better because it's easier now, we don't have to pay attention to the damage taken like we did in PoE 1".

 

 

I didn't say it was easier, i said you dont have to lose 5 minutes of your life going to town if you get out of resting supplies. The only think i am triing is to give you options for making the game more challenging and fun for you, since it is "too easy if you can heal when you have healing spells". 

[dunehunter]

 

 

 

 

 

I don't know if you noticed but you basicaly said: "it's better because it's easier now, we don't have to pay attention to the damage taken like we did in PoE 1".

I didn't say it was easier, i said you dont have to lose 5 minutes of your life going to town if you get out of resting supplies. The only think i am triing is to give you options for making the game more challenging and fun for you, since it is "too easy if you can heal when you have healing spells".

But u can die in first game if run out of health, in Deadfire u will never die if u can heal up.

[Clerith]

Having to constantly burn resources (including potions- ive seen him go through quite a lot of those, despite priest, druid (and autoheals from form shift) and second wind) and action time on heals doesn't sound all that easy to me.

 

It looks more like he's barely keeping up. all those healing spells are eating, buffs, debuffs and damage spells that could be thrown.

Oi. I haven't watched the stream (going in blind!), but that makes it sound pretty hard. Sounds like he's taking a ton of damage - look at it this way - if a healing priest, druid, abilities and potions couldn't keep you alive, we'd have a problem.

[molotov.]

 

 

 

 

I don't know if you noticed but you basicaly said: "it's better because it's easier now, we don't have to pay attention to the damage taken like we did in PoE 1".

 

 

I didn't say it was easier, i said you dont have to lose 5 minutes of your life going to town if you get out of resting supplies. The only think i am triing is to give you options for making the game more challenging and fun for you, since it is "too easy if you can heal when you have healing spells". 

 

No, I never said "too easy if you can heal when you have healing spells", I said that the change in the health system made healing way more powerfull.

 

If you don't need to pay attention on the damage taken in easy battles, because the endurence gets filled up after the combat, and in hard battles you can just spam heals that makes the game easy.

 

On PoE 1 you had to pay attention to your deflection, reflex and fortitude, and the enemy's acc because you had to diminish the damage taken because of your health, heal was important but just one part of the health system.

 

The new health system ripped the game of an important strategical aspect that he once had. It looks a lot more casual now. But hey, people don't want a challenge, only a small number of players play on PotD actually nobody cares about this thread. I don't even know why I'm wasting my time discussing it.

[Alhoon]

Seeing how well the health system worked in Pillars 1, I can't really understand why they'd change it. I mean, both systems can be balanced, but one would think the old system is a lot easier to balance.

 

About the difficulty on PotD, why on earth would they balance it to be too easy? It completely undermines challenges like Triple Crown if you can complete it easily at launch.

[molotov.]

 

Having to constantly burn resources (including potions- ive seen him go through quite a lot of those, despite priest, druid (and autoheals from form shift) and second wind) and action time on heals doesn't sound all that easy to me.

 

It looks more like he's barely keeping up. all those healing spells are eating, buffs, debuffs and damage spells that could be thrown.

Oi. I haven't watched the stream (going in blind!), but that makes it sound pretty hard. Sounds like he's taking a ton of damage - look at it this way - if a healing priest, druid, abilities and potions couldn't keep you alive, we'd have a problem.

 

It's because he is not using any buffs, I've seen him using circle of protection and that was it. He don't realize that giving more deflection to your character is way more beneficial than to just heal up. But, despite that, he is making progress, that shows how powerfull heals are.

[Wormerine]

"The change of the health system make healing spells way powerfull, I can't comprehend the reason to why they changed the decent health system of the first game."

May I inquire why do you claim that it is an issue with health system (a fan of endurance/health for the record). I didn't watch the stream (spoilers!) but from what you describe it doesn't seem like an issue with health system. The only thing that old system did was force player to take a rest every couple fights - which is not a difficulty. At most its a bother if you need to run back to town for supplies, though from my experience those were generously given to the player easily allowing for one rest per map. It was very unlikely to run out of endurance in one encounter. So my question to you is: are encounters themselves easier, or does the streamer simply rest less? 

 

If multitude of healing is indeed a problem, then it's casting system's fault. You can cast all the healing spells you have every encounter. Again, in my experience in beta, it comes at cost of not casting other very beneficial spells. Consecrated Ground is super good if you hold your ground, but many enemies had deadly AoE spells which would force me to move (or move me around with various pull/push abilities).

 

But u can die in first game if run out of health, in Deadfire u will never die if u can heal up.

Really? Die in PoE1? If you take a lot of damage in PoE1 and not rest you will die. If you take a lot of damage in PoE2 and not rest you will die. I died once in PoE1 in my 3 playthroughs. I died many more times in Deadfire beta... though mostly to traps. 

Edited May 7, 2018 by Wormerine

[Arctic]

 

 

 

 

 

I don't know if you noticed but you basicaly said: "it's better because it's easier now, we don't have to pay attention to the damage taken like we did in PoE 1".

 

 

I didn't say it was easier, i said you dont have to lose 5 minutes of your life going to town if you get out of resting supplies. The only think i am triing is to give you options for making the game more challenging and fun for you, since it is "too easy if you can heal when you have healing spells". 

 

No, I never said "too easy if you can heal when you have healing spells", I said that the change in the health system made healing way more powerfull.

 

If you don't need to pay attention on the damage taken in easy battles, because the endurence gets filled up after the combat, and in hard battles you can just spam heals that makes the game easy.

 

On PoE 1 you had to pay attention to your deflection, reflex and fortitude, and the enemy's acc because you had to diminish the damage taken because of your health, heal was important but just one part of the health system.

 

The new health system ripped the game of an important strategical aspect that he once had. It looks a lot more casual now. But hey, people don't want a challenge, only a small number of players play on PotD actually nobody cares about this thread. I don't even know why I'm wasting my time discussing it.

 

 

I've never died on PoE 1 (Potd) for getting at 0 health, the only way i can see it happening is if you dont know how the game works and get surprised by it, or you just forget about it, so I dont see the big deal. 

 

I dont know what else to say, i'm sorry that you feal it will make the game less fun for you, if it was another thing you could probably mod it .. but being a core mechanic of the game i dont think we can mod that ...so i dont know. 

[z_liquid]

 

I haven't played the beta but I'm certain that the difficulty doesn't stay the same throughout the game. Keep your pants on and enjoy the masterpiece when it's out tomorrow.

****ing hell, people don't even read the first comment? Health system is the main problem here, they already showed a end-game dungeon and it was easy because of the constantly heals.

 

Do you really expect people not to talk about the subject you yourself put in the title? If only thing you're interested in talking about is the healing, name your thread like that. A thread titled "Game looks incredibly easy" (which I very much agree with, but it's already been discussed) is just asking for trouble.

[Occursus]

 

I saw him playing, he is playing a really strong multiclass, probably one of the best out there, and its true that it seams easy some times, but it's mostly against low lvl enemies, so you could enable level scaling if you think that will make the game more challenging for your.

 

He has hight armor without speed penalty, bonus unnarmed damage, a speed buff with a lighting leash, his own passive lighting leash, and each time he changes form he heals for half hp. Its close in power to a solo run build.

Nah, the main problem is the health system, he is just spamming heal spells. The last fight I saw: he was almost dying, then he proceeded to use consecrated grounds, holy radiance and restore minor endurance, his entire party was full health again, just after that he used his build to melt the enemy. After the combat he didn't need to rest and his tank was ok. If it was PoE 1 he would have to at least watch out for his health, which can't receive heals over and over again.

 

 

Soooo… Essentially the problem, if I understand correctly, is that he does not need to rest between each or most fights, is that it ?

 

 

Because at the end of the day, that the spells and abilities heal Health or Endurance, in Pillars or Deadfire, it changes nothing unless the fight really drags out or you keep pushing for one more encounter before you rest.

 

For instance, I do not believe, even for once, in all my games in Path, that Edér was harmed so badly that I had to rest for him. I would always end up resting for other party members, and not even because of health but because I ran out of some necessary spells against some creatures, like those afflicting the party with Charmed, Dominated, Paralysis, Petrified, etc.

 

Many of those issues just make Pillars I sometimes an exercise in frustration because the game was always slowed down unnecessarily for no good reason.

 

If each encounter is some kind of challenge of its own, it would be much better at the end of the day, I’d wager.

 

It is a video game after all. It is not tabletop. Some mechanics have to adapt to the medium at some point.

[dunehunter]

@wormerine yes u can die due to 0 health specially when u solo the game. Not very often in a party. But when you solo and a fight takes too long, it’s possible.

[Taurus]

O plz STFU.

 

I have a triple frozen crown under my belt, and during battles I've never had to worry about health. Only after the battles or before an important battle, should I rest? Should I go to town? But never during a fight. 

So yes, they are removing an aspect of the game, but removing and saying it's easier it's like saying you want "emcumbrance" in PoE because every other RPG has it.

[molotov.]

 

"The change of the health system make healing spells way powerfull, I can't comprehend the reason to why they changed the decent health system of the first game."

May I inquire why do you claim that it is an issue with health system (a fan of endurance/health for the record). I didn't watch the stream (spoilers!) but from what you describe it doesn't seem like an issue with health system. The only thing that old system did was force player to take a rest every couple fights - which is not a difficulty. At most its a bother if you need to run back to town for supplies, though from my experience those were generously given to the player easily allowing for one rest per map. It was very unlikely to run out of endurance in one encounter. So my question to you is: are encounters themselves easier, or does the streamer simply rest less? 

 

If multitude of healing is indeed a problem, then it's casting system's fault. You can cast all the healing spells you have every encounter. Again, in my experience in beta, it comes at cost of not casting other very beneficial spells. Consecrated Ground is super good if you hold your ground, but many enemies had deadly AoE spells which would force me to move (or move me around with various pull/push abilities).

 

But u can die in first game if run out of health, in Deadfire u will never die if u can heal up.

Really? Die in PoE1? If you take a lot of damage in PoE1 and not rest you will die. If you take a lot of damage in PoE2 and not rest you will die. I died once in PoE1 in my 3 playthroughs. I died many more times in Deadfire beta... though mostly to traps. 

 

You can't heal your health in PoE 1, if it reaches 0 the character can't keep fighting and if endurance and health reaches 0 the character dies, PoE 2 has no health just endurance so you can just spam heals and don't care about the damage, thus you don't need to pay attention to buffs and debuffs.

 

Example: a big boss hits Edér for 80 damage.

 

If it was PoE 1: cast a heal spell, but his health is still down you need to put some buffs on him, more deflection is a good option or debuff the boss, less acc is a good option.

 

PoE 2: there is no health I can just spam a heal.

[Occursus]

By the way, I believe there is one more thing that is quite interesting with the setup we do have right now : it would be much easier for them to adjust - aka increase or decrease if necessary - the difficulty for each difficulty setting since they can now know for a fact what you are going to have available to you in each and every encounter. At least most likely. Especially so if you choose to activate level scaling, since the encounter will be basically at the ideal level for your party. Each time.

 

You should also consider that you have, in fact, less spells and other abilities to heal you in Deadfire than you did in Pillars I, for any crucial encounter since those have a lower amount. Instead of casting five to six spells of level one, you might only be able to cast three, perhaps four ? And spells tend to have a longer casting time, and have longer recovery, too...

 

I mean, I hardly see the problem the more I think about it ^^"

[molotov.]

 

 

I saw him playing, he is playing a really strong multiclass, probably one of the best out there, and its true that it seams easy some times, but it's mostly against low lvl enemies, so you could enable level scaling if you think that will make the game more challenging for your.

 

He has hight armor without speed penalty, bonus unnarmed damage, a speed buff with a lighting leash, his own passive lighting leash, and each time he changes form he heals for half hp. Its close in power to a solo run build.

Nah, the main problem is the health system, he is just spamming heal spells. The last fight I saw: he was almost dying, then he proceeded to use consecrated grounds, holy radiance and restore minor endurance, his entire party was full health again, just after that he used his build to melt the enemy. After the combat he didn't need to rest and his tank was ok. If it was PoE 1 he would have to at least watch out for his health, which can't receive heals over and over again.

 

 

Soooo… Essentially the problem, if I understand correctly, is that he does not need to rest between each or most fights, is that it ?

 

 

Because at the end of the day, that the spells and abilities heal Health or Endurance, in Pillars or Deadfire, it changes nothing unless the fight really drags out or you keep pushing for one more encounter before you rest.

 

For instance, I do not believe, even for once, in all my games in Path, that Edér was harmed so badly that I had to rest for him. I would always end up resting for other party members, and not even because of health but because I ran out of some necessary spells against some creatures, like those afflicting the party with Charmed, Dominated, Paralysis, Petrified, etc.

 

Many of those issues just make Pillars I sometimes an exercise in frustration because the game was always slowed down unnecessarily for no good reason.

 

If each encounter is some kind of challenge of its own, it would be much better at the end of the day, I’d wager.

 

It is a video game after all. It is not tabletop. Some mechanics have to adapt to the medium at some point.

 

No the main problem is that we don't have Health to worry about anymore, we don't need to use buffs to diminish damage received, we don't need to watch out for debuffs, we can just heal, because we only have endurance now.

[molotov.]

By the way, I believe there is one more thing that is quite interesting with the setup we do have right now : it would be much easier for them to adjust - aka increase or decrease if necessary - the difficulty for each difficulty setting since they can now know for a fact what you are going to have available to you in each and every encounter. At least most likely. Especially so if you choose to activate level scaling, since the encounter will be basically at the ideal level for your party. Each time.

 

You should also consider that you have, in fact, less spells and other abilities to heal you in Deadfire than you did in Pillars I, for any crucial encounter since those have a lower amount. Instead of casting five to six spells of level one, you might only be able to cast three, perhaps four ? And spells tend to have a longer casting time, and have longer recovery, too...

 

I mean, I hardly see the problem the more I think about it ^^"

No, you have a bunch of healling spells, if you want, you can watch cohhcarnage he is just spamming heals. You can use consecrated grounds 3 times in just one fight.

[molotov.]

O plz STFU.

 

I have a triple frozen crown under my belt, and during battles I've never had to worry about health. Only after the battles or before an important battle, should I rest? Should I go to town? But never during a fight. 

 

So yes, they are removing an aspect of the game, but removing and saying it's easier it's like saying you want "emcumbrance" in PoE because every other RPG has it.

Wow! A triple frozen crown! You are so good! 

 

And no, I'll not "STFU". 

[molotov.]

 

 

I haven't played the beta but I'm certain that the difficulty doesn't stay the same throughout the game. Keep your pants on and enjoy the masterpiece when it's out tomorrow.

****ing hell, people don't even read the first comment? Health system is the main problem here, they already showed a end-game dungeon and it was easy because of the constantly heals.

 

Do you really expect people not to talk about the subject you yourself put in the title? If only thing you're interested in talking about is the healing, name your thread like that. A thread titled "Game looks incredibly easy" (which I very much agree with, but it's already been discussed) is just asking for trouble.

 

I thought that people on this forum read more than just the title. It seems I was wrong.

[z_liquid]

 

 

 

I haven't played the beta but I'm certain that the difficulty doesn't stay the same throughout the game. Keep your pants on and enjoy the masterpiece when it's out tomorrow.

****ing hell, people don't even read the first comment? Health system is the main problem here, they already showed a end-game dungeon and it was easy because of the constantly heals.

 

Do you really expect people not to talk about the subject you yourself put in the title? If only thing you're interested in talking about is the healing, name your thread like that. A thread titled "Game looks incredibly easy" (which I very much agree with, but it's already been discussed) is just asking for trouble.

 

I thought that people on this forum read more than just the title. It seems I was wrong.

 

You post a thread calling the game easy.

 

Someone responds saying we've only seen the first part of the game, and the rest might not be that easy.

 

You lash out at them, after they merely responded to the topic in question.

 

 

Just lol mate. Just lol.

[Alhoon]

O plz STFU.

 

I have a triple frozen crown under my belt, and during battles I've never had to worry about health. Only after the battles or before an important battle, should I rest? Should I go to town? But never during a fight. 

 

So yes, they are removing an aspect of the game, but removing and saying it's easier it's like saying you want "emcumbrance" in PoE because every other RPG has it.

Well, I have The Ultimate achievement as a Monk and even in a solo run as non-healer high health class, health was definitely an issue for a few fights (especially a certain fight in WM2, you know what I mean). Now the game is obviously balanced around party play where you might have a dedicated healer on top of Healing Potions, Shod-in-Faith, Moon Godlike etc. so saying health system was irrelevant in Pillars 1 is simply not true.

Edited May 7, 2018 by Alhoon