First impression on full ability tree

[Maxzero]

Mith Fyr got nerfed a bit (25% to 15%), but it is still useful, and chanters are so good anyway that it doesn't hurt them too much.

 

The thing that stuck out the most: you can summon a freaking dragon! I'm rethinking my plan to use 2 multiclass chanters because I'll miss out on that. You can't possibly go single-class beckoner either if you want to summon that dragon, because the whole point is to summon a full-size freaking dragon!!

 

Love the high-level phrases for chanter. Too many good ones to pick from. Pairing that +100% healing chant with other good sources of healing ought to be crazy.

You mean summon TWO Dragons right?

[L4wlight]

You can't possibly go single-class beckoner either if you want to summon that dragon, because the whole point is to summon a full-size freaking dragon!!

There eventually will be mods to "fix" this cosmetic issue (I really hope so!). 

[dunehunter]

Does paladin have the old coordinate attack? Or Deprive the Unworthy? I’m a bit disappointed that a darcozzi battle observer build is no longer available because these are removed. Also righteous soul can reduce a few affliction duration in PoE 1.

[SaruNi]

What would it be like if you used the console to go right to max level, beckoner dragon summon, with level scaling on? First encounter: Level 20 sheep vs dragons?....

[lunattic]

 

Two Weapon Style nerfed to 15% because why not? We all love to stare at our characters do their idle thing in-between attacks, right?

 

Let's be honest here, there were countless threads on dual wielding being too powerfull. It probably still is compared to the other styles.

 

As I mentioned in those threads, I would prefer any other solution to that problem. The one thing I take issue with is slower recovery because it's boring. I don't like staring at my men doing nothing, and with average recovery times at 4s (!!) dual-wielding was pretty much the only style I could consider to avoid falling asleep between weapon swings.

 

 

I think the solution to this problem is just increasing the combat speed with the slider. If you feel that characters need dual wield to get around a percieved lack of action per unit of time, that seems a much better fix than allowing dual wielding to be even more OP.

 

For the record, I do agree that the average recovery time is currently high, which is why I'll set the combat speed higher to compensate too.

Edited May 4, 2018 by lunattic

[lunattic]

 

 

Gambit: 

 

Full attack

When scoring a critical hit:

+2 of each Rogue resource (of "each"? there's more than one? huh?)

 

+20% crit damage per Guile possessed, +10% hit to crit per Guile possessed

 

At power level 9, 11 Guile, that's +220% crit damage and 100% hit to crit

 

Murderous Intent passive:

100% of Hits converted to Crits with Empowered attacks against <= 50% health targets,

+100% Crit damage with Empowered attacks against <= 50% health targets

 

Not bad for a passive.

 

Trickster might get Wall of Many Colors ( in rpg codex leak), which looks pretty good.

 

Coordinated Positioning seems like it should be a lower-level ability. And range is only 2.5 m....

 

I'm fairly sure the abilities use that description because, as a lot of people seem to forget, there are 3 DLC's coming. Those will most likely highten the level cap allowing even multiclass characters to go past power level 7. So +2 to each resource on a level 8 or 9 ability will probably become relevant for future multiclass characters.

 

 

But it specifies "each Rogue resource"... not "each resource". It implies there's more than one Rogue resource. But Guile is the only one?... 

 

 

I agree that the wording could be better. I think that it's worded in this way so that players do not expect it to replenish empower points, which are also a resource but not specifically a rogue resource.

[z_liquid]

Single class ranger with Twinned Shot arquebus? idk 

 

At least whirling strikes seems pretty cool

[dunehunter]

Twinnshot + driving flight + arquebus with extra target = 6 hits, that’s pretty cool. But the ability itself is lame. It’s just a 2h version of Full attack ability.

[SaruNi]

Why did they feel the need to reduce Coordinated Positioning's range from 4 m to 2.5 m? In PoE 1 it was difficult to use defensively because enemies would just run after you and reengage immediately. This looks even worse....

 

And why does Slippery Mind require Blooded?... did they really think it was OP without that? 

 

Really disappointed with Rogue for the most part. Especially caster Rogue---nothing worthwhile except generic abilities. Forcing caster Rogues to use weapons is just crappy inflexible design. More uses of Smoke Veil will be nice, but at higher levels we'll have access to Potions of Invisibility so that may not even be relevant. So all caster assassin basically gets, through the whole game, is assassinate... pretty boring.

Edited May 5, 2018 by SaruNi

[L4wlight]

Do like the new "Ancestor's Honor" power. It's an ascendant's best friend. Wonder if it can be applied to cipher himself; but it for sure can be fun chain-empowering your allies (with a little alchemy ofc).

 

The "Shared Nightmare" - would be crazingly good if it was available to a multi-classing cipher. But as a rank 9 passive... it will be probably most useful for an Ascendant going for Ringleader or Amplified Wave.

 

"1000 Cuts" - is a very interesting stackable DoT that is worth being a rank 9 power. While Haunting Chains (terrify and hobble a single target) not so much.

I agree:

• Ciphers in general get some pretty good late game party buffs (Ansestor's Honor, Defensive Mindweb, Driving Echos) and compared to PoE1 the Ascendant has the potential to keep all of them up
• Ascendant with Ansestor's Honor + Driving Echos = Wizard's best friend
• Screaming Sounds should make chop suey out of large groups of spirits/ vessels, especially with Shared Nightmare; depending on the end game content this could be top or flop

Edited May 5, 2018 by L4wlight

[lunattic]

After studying the talent trees some more, I have to say that a fighter/paladin (any dual wielding one) multiclass seems REALLY strong. Bonus points for moon godlike, assuming the healing from their racial scales.

 

You get:

-Deep faith + the fighter inspired defense buff (level 6 upgrade extends the effect any time you're hit) > an eventual blanket +40 ? to all your defenses all the time, assuming you're tanking.

-dual wielding + armored grace, meaning you can potentially wear the heaviest armor with very low recovery (like a normal fighter).

-Constant recovery + white flames (if kind wayfarers) + potentially Lay on Hands to heal yourself, or the upgraded armor aura for extra healing. 

-The paladin armor passive for + 2 armor to the last incoming damage type. 

-The fighter defensive stance for +3 enemies engaged and -5% damage taken per enemy, upgrade knocks prone enemies who try to disengage.

-The best damage buff in the game (I think) with disciplined barrage, generating you tons of crits.

-Adding to this, you get fighter weapon specialisation + retribution for even more damage.

-One of the best auto AOE damage spells in sacred immolation (assuming the self damage it deals is a lower than listed, a UI bug like disintegrate)

-A very good, spammable full attack with low cost in flames of devotion (even though it was nerfed in both accuracy and damage), potentially buffing allies too with the upgrade. 

-A very powerful battlefield mobility tool in charge (as seen in the developer playthrough, this teleports the fighter to an enemy and somehow does like 8 attacks, even though it says it's a regular full attack).

 

And assuming the DLC adds at least one more tier of abilities and allows multiclass characters to reach level 8 abilities in the future, you get:

-Another extremely powerful selfbuff, the fighter one which adds all 6 basic inspirations to you at once (+5 to all stats for 30+int bonus seconds).

-Another paladin armor passive which adds +1 more armor every 6 seconds while standing still

-The paladin passive which allows you to self-ressurrect if you somehow manage to die. 

 

I'll probably make this my second character, or build pallegrina as a hybrid in my first run (it is in her potential class combo). Even if she's undoubtedly very poorly statted again, I think the classes are so poweful together that it will work. 

[TheMetaphysician]

 

Mith Fyr got nerfed a bit (25% to 15%), but it is still useful, and chanters are so good anyway that it doesn't hurt them too much.

 

The thing that stuck out the most: you can summon a freaking dragon! I'm rethinking my plan to use 2 multiclass chanters because I'll miss out on that. You can't possibly go single-class beckoner either if you want to summon that dragon, because the whole point is to summon a full-size freaking dragon!!

 

Love the high-level phrases for chanter. Too many good ones to pick from. Pairing that +100% healing chant with other good sources of healing ought to be crazy.

You mean summon TWO Dragons right?

 

 

Yeah, the Beckoner gets two of them, but they are half-size pipsqueaks!! That just doesn't cut it.

[lunattic]

 

 

Mith Fyr got nerfed a bit (25% to 15%), but it is still useful, and chanters are so good anyway that it doesn't hurt them too much.

 

The thing that stuck out the most: you can summon a freaking dragon! I'm rethinking my plan to use 2 multiclass chanters because I'll miss out on that. You can't possibly go single-class beckoner either if you want to summon that dragon, because the whole point is to summon a full-size freaking dragon!!

 

Love the high-level phrases for chanter. Too many good ones to pick from. Pairing that +100% healing chant with other good sources of healing ought to be crazy.

You mean summon TWO Dragons right?

 

 

Yeah, the Beckoner gets two of them, but they are half-size pipsqueaks!! That just doesn't cut it.

 

 

But it's two of them We can name them Bimmy and Jimmy!

 

(I wonder if anyone else still understands that reference. Sigh, I'm getting too old...)

Edited May 5, 2018 by lunattic

[Voss]

I agree:

 

 

• Ciphers in general get some pretty good late game party buffs (Ansestor's Honor, Defensive Mindweb, Driving Echos) and compared to PoE1 the Ascendant has the potential to keep all of them up
• Ascendant with Ansestor's Honor + Driving Echos = Wizard's best friend
• Screaming Sounds should make chop suey out of large groups of spirits/ vessels, especially with Shared Nightmare; depending on the end game content this could be top or flop

 

Don't forget Time Parasite on the Ascendant.  Cut casting times in half to pack in more free spells.

 

I'm curious to see how big an Ascendant's AoE can get with the Shared Nightmare passive.  +1% per focus...  285% total at 20th level (with the +10 focus perk)?  That sound about right?

[L4wlight]

Skald:

• Offensively skilled and with good party support, Old Siec Would Not Rest 'til His Hunger Was Sated potentially provides good amounts of healing, especially against paralyzed targets (also Her Courage Thick as Steel got nerfed to trash tier)
• Her Tears Fell Like Rain makes me want to rotate between it and At the Sounds of His Voice, the Killers Froze Stiff, but this probably requires huge action speed buffing (alchemy ^^)
• Their Champion Braved the Horde Alone as the only source for the Energized inspiration?
• While a single-classed Skald has access to some powerful party buffs (And with a furious thrust, drover her dagger into his heart, With all your Strength, Slay the Beast!, His heart did fill with the light of the Dawn! to name some), multi-classing (Devoted offers a lot of synergies)  might be the way to go to maximize offensive and defensive capabilities
• Offensively, empowered Eld Nary's Curse Spread Through Their Midst might be the strongest point for creating a single-classed Skald and should result in trillions of foe jumps, but I doubt that's enough

Skald/ Monk:

• I wonder if it is possible to play a ranged glass-cannon Skald/ Hellwalker per Instrument of Pain; that'd seriously kick ass! Like seriously... k i c k... a s s...
• Seriously... ;-) That's probably the first thing that I'll test at launch!

Edited May 5, 2018 by L4wlight

[dunehunter]

Monk/Whisper of the Wind: Full attack to 1+5 jump enemies VS Rogue/Vanishing Strike: Full attack and turn invisible VS Ranger/Twinshot: double hit with primary weapon. 

Based on the info of beta, jump attack can affect original target so if I understand this ability correctly, u can do 6 full attacks to a single target if there is no other enemy around. I'm not a game designer but I feel it is very easy to tell that there are some big gap between abilities.

 

Edit: But I could be wrong about Whisper of the Wind, the jump mechanism is unclear in beta.

Edited May 5, 2018 by dunehunter

[ArenCordial]

Kinda disappointed with some of the Cipher HLA's.  Defensive Mindweb only works until someone is hit them they are taken out of the web.  Driving Echo's is nice but reminds me of how much I hate that Cipher's can't target themselves with some spells like DE and Reaping Knives.   Feels odd for a striker to be buffing others and not have the option themselves.  Frankly someone of these abilities feel like they should have removed that restriction for the Soulblade. 

Shared Nightmare looks nice though.  1000 Cuts might be real interesting if you can combo with Mind Blades to stack a bunch of dots on a single target.

[Voss]

Ciphers do have a couple spells that drain others and buff themselves.  One for armor and another for accuracy and all defenses.  Both are very good.

[Ganrich]

 

Skald:

• Offensively skilled and with good party support, Old Siec Would Not Rest 'til His Hunger Was Sated potentially provides good amounts of healing, especially against paralyzed targets (also Her Courage Thick as Steel got nerfed to trash tier)
• Her Tears Fell Like Rain makes me want to rotate between it and At the Sounds of His Voice, the Killers Froze Stiff, but this probably requires huge action speed buffing (alchemy ^^)
• Their Champion Braved the Horde Alone as the only source for the Energized inspiration?
• While a single-classed Skald has access to some powerful party buffs (And with a furious thrust, drover her dagger into his heart, With all your Strength, Slay the Beast!, His heart did fill with the light of the Dawn! to name some), multi-classing (Devoted offers a lot of synergies)  might be the way to go to maximize offensive and defensive capabilities
• Offensively, empowered Eld Nary's Curse Spread Through Their Midst might be the strongest point for creating a single-classed Skald and should result in trillions of foe jumps, but I doubt that's enough

Skald/ Monk:

• I wonder if it is possible to play a ranged glass-cannon Skald/ Hellwalker per Instrument of Pain; that'd seriously kick ass! Like seriously... k i c k... a s s...
• Seriously... ;-) That's probably the first thing that I'll test at launch!

 

 

Unless it changed with full launch the Skald's Crit to generate phrases system is based on melee only.  So, you would be better going Troubadour for the Helwalker build.  The tips in character creation do not clarify this well, IMHO.  Melee Skald/Helwalker can get pretty crazy though. 

[theBalthazar]

Twinnshot + driving flight + arquebus with extra target = 6 hits, that’s pretty cool. But the ability itself is lame. It’s just a 2h version of Full attack ability. 

 

 

Exactly. Problem is also THE COST of all of this. 4 power source for twinshot. Already a bad choice, sadly.

 

If you have 8 PS = 2 attacks only. VS 8 attacks.

 

Big nerf of Paladin with flame of devotion.

 

Honnestly, I understand the nerf of damage 25 % against 30 % (was ...50 %)

But accuracy is the mark of paladin. 10 accuracy do a really minor difference now.

 

MORE, why personnal bonus (upgrade) is 10 % against 20 % with shared ? It is a nonsense : p

Personnal = 20 %

Shared = 15 %

Far more logical : p

 

For me, level 16-20 are not particularly crazy, even if there are few exception extremely powerful. I think multiclass is always on top (to test)

 

Cost of abilities, a lot with 6 sec of cast etc. I think, you can do more with a multiclass in this game.

 

---------

 

I also found the tree of each class a little bit repetitive (line of overpower, line of wielding, etc. If you take that away, there is not much left)

Edited May 5, 2018 by theBalthazar

[AndreaColombo]

I think the solution to this problem is just increasing the combat speed with the slider. If you feel that characters need dual wield to get around a percieved lack of action per unit of time, that seems a much better fix than allowing dual wielding to be even more OP.

 

For the record, I do agree that the average recovery time is currently high, which is why I'll set the combat speed higher to compensate too.

 

I don't want to turn this thread is another combat speed debate, so we may want to take it to a new thread from here if we feel we have more to say. Using the combat speed slider is not quite the same thing as reducing recovery. The slider makes *everything* faster, which soon starts looking like the Deadfire version of the Benny Hill show while recovery still lasts too long relative to everything else. It looks and feels awkward, makes it harder to make strategic decisions because everything is too fast, and doesn't quite solve the issue.

 

I believe weapon recovery times need to go back to 3s as there's no need for the 4s nonsense. It doesn't help that the way the math works in this game, a penalty weighs more than a bonus—which is why I'm against reducing bonuses. I'd rather speed up recovery on the other styles to make them on par, or increase their damage. OR lower the damage output of DW. Anything but making recovery longer works for me.

 

With that said, thankfully weapon recovery time is easily moddable so once the game is out, I can cut it down to suit my taste.

Edited May 5, 2018 by AndreaColombo

[dunehunter]

 

I think the solution to this problem is just increasing the combat speed with the slider. If you feel that characters need dual wield to get around a percieved lack of action per unit of time, that seems a much better fix than allowing dual wielding to be even more OP.

 

For the record, I do agree that the average recovery time is currently high, which is why I'll set the combat speed higher to compensate too.

 

I don't want to turn this thread is another combat speed debate, so we may want to take it to a new thread from here if we feel we have more to say. Using the combat speed slider is not quite the same thing as reducing recovery. The slider makes *everything* faster, which soon starts looking like the Deadfire version of the Benny Hill show while recovery still lasts too long relative to everything else. It looks and feels awkward, makes it harder to make strategic decisions because everything is too fast, and doesn't quite solve the issue.

 

I believe weapon recovery times need to go back to 3s as there's no need for the 4s nonsense. It doesn't help that the way the math works in this game, a penalty weighs more than a bonus—which is why I'm against reducing bonuses. I'd rather speed up recovery on the other styles to make them on par, or increase their damage. OR lower the damage output of DW. Anything but making recovery longer works for me.

 

With that said, thankfully weapon recovery time is easily moddable so once the game is out, I can cut it down to suit my taste.

 

 

Just pick a barbarian or multiclass into barb if you want 0 recovery time Bloodthirst is the way to go!

[dunehunter]

 

Twinnshot + driving flight + arquebus with extra target = 6 hits, that’s pretty cool. But the ability itself is lame. It’s just a 2h version of Full attack ability. 

 

 

Exactly. Problem is also THE COST of all of this. 4 power source for twinshot. Already a bad choice, sadly.

 

If you have 8 PS = 2 attacks only. VS 8 attacks.

 

Big nerf of Paladin with flame of devotion.

 

Honnestly, I understand the nerf of damage 25 % against 30 % (was ...50 %)

But accuracy is the mark of paladin. 10 accuracy do a really minor difference now.

 

MORE, why personnal bonus (upgrade) is 10 % against 20 % with shared ? It is a nonsense : p

Personnal = 20 %

Shared = 15 %

Far more logical : p

 

For me, level 16-20 are not particularly crazy, even if there are few exception extremely powerful. I think multiclass is always on top (to test)

 

Cost of abilities, a lot with 6 sec of cast etc. I think, you can do more with a multiclass in this game.

 

---------

 

I also found the tree of each class a little bit repetitive (line of overpower, line of wielding, etc. If you take that away, there is not much left)

 

 

For me, ability can be categoried into the below types, and we should balance their power based on it's type as:

 

AOE        <  single-target

support    <  self-buff

passive    <  active

low level  <  high level

lash         <  damage bonus

full attack <  primary attack

 

now some passive has double effect than active, some lash is greater than damage bonus, and some high level ability has same effect as low level ones.

Edited May 5, 2018 by dunehunter

[malchiorita]

Pretty sad they moved cipher time parasite to lv 8,but that could have been op for multiclass i guess? And pretty disappointed that chanters got self only buffs, it kinda goes against the concept of the class itself imho, that would have been amazing to give energized to your main dps... Also rogue get only 1 (one) lv 9 ability? Did they run out of ideas?

 

Well, as with high level abilities in poe 1,i'm not amazed this time aswell, with a couple of exception (yes i'm looking at you dragon summoning) they kinda miss the "wow" effect imho.

 

The tooltip are kinda messy btw, and why do you have to mousover to read the power cost of skill, while that's not in the full description? Did they just forget it?

Edited May 5, 2018 by malchiorita

[dunehunter]

And pretty disappointed that chanters got self only buffs, it kinda goes against the concept of the class itself imho

 

Because chanter has some pretty good blast, if I remember correctly they have a tornado like innvocaton at high level. As I said, chanter is very versatile, it can CC, blast, heal, revive, summon and has passive phrase. It also does very good in all of these aspect.

Edited May 5, 2018 by dunehunter