Politics Princess' Sweet Sixteen

[smjjames]

 

Yeah that's the story that prompted me to look her up again. Dayum!

 

Well to each their own, but she's just ok.

 

As for Clinton, yeah, not sure why she can't just retreat to private life and be quiet. You'd think she would go for that, means not dealing with this bull**** all the time or having Trump talk about you, etc.

 

 

While it does appear sexist to tell Clinton (a woman) to retreat to private life and be quiet and it does have a touch of sexism to me, but sometimes it's best to just exit stage left (or right). Especially when she really isn't helping things.

 

 

It's the only thing that keeps her relevant now a days. Plus with our "victimhood is empowering" culture we have, I don't blame her for sticking around. Let her keep talking and maybe the ones who were accusing sexism! for not voting for her will finally get in their heads that she was ****.

 

I'm not accusing sexism, just that it does have the appearance of sexism, but in this case, it really would be best if she stopped talking since it's not helping Democrats.

[smjjames]

 

 

Well so what is USA going to do something about North Korea what do you think? I don't know but for some reason some Finnish forums are full of people who believe USA actually will take military action, but I know it is a tough choice to make and I don't have any specific beliefs regarding that subject but I keep an open mind for possibilities.

 

Speculation in Finnish forums hit so far that some believed USA would attack after Winter Olympics and now Winter Olympics is over.

 

In the news currently relationship between UK and Russia hit rock bottom after ex Russian spy was murdered in UK the Uk has now as responce deported many Russian diplomats that were in UK.

 

I honestly don't know. First there was the sudden (though I guess in hindsight it would have been predictable) offer of one-on-one talks with Kim Jong Un, then silence (no confirmation or anything) from NK, then Trump decided now was a good time to reshuffle his cabinet, which is going to delay the talks.

 

It's definetly possible that Kim was also worried that Trump might do a pre-emptive strike after the Olympics, but the talks up the stakes and make it more likely for things to go wrong. Now he's putting in Pompeo who is a real hawk on NK and Trump is rumored to be possibly putting in Bolton to replace McMaster as National Security Director, and he's even more of a hawk than Pompeo.

 

So, really, it depends on Trumps mood and the time of day.

 

edit: On Hillary, yeah, she really needs to just disappear from the radar, metaphorically, because she isn't helping anything.

 

 

Kim's offer for talks is strategic move to make it harder for US do pre-emptive strike, because it would look quite badly for US to do strike against NK after they have offered to participate in denuclearization talks, especially China would react quite badly to such strikes in their sphere of influence and they would use them as excuse for either military or economical actions against USA. Also there is quite little to gain, outside of some possible domestic political points,  from strike NK even if they have ICBMs capable to delivering nukes to continental USA and nuclear warheads to arm them with. 

 

So even though Kim seems like nutty leader, he seems to be much better politician than Trump at least in this issue, considering that Trump gave quite additional power for Kim by not just acknowledging his offer but boasting how big deal said offer is. 

 

 

Not to mention that doing a pre-emptive strike has the potential to do the same effect as a smashing a hornet nest. Kim Jong Un pretty much has to respond or he'll lose face, but the question is how will he respond? Will it be restrained (short of all out war) or will he go all-out-no-holds-barred?

[Terminator]

 

 

Well so what is USA going to do something about North Korea what do you think? I don't know but for some reason some Finnish forums are full of people who believe USA actually will take military action, but I know it is a tough choice to make and I don't have any specific beliefs regarding that subject but I keep an open mind for possibilities.

 

Speculation in Finnish forums hit so far that some believed USA would attack after Winter Olympics and now Winter Olympics is over.

 

In the news currently relationship between UK and Russia hit rock bottom after ex Russian spy was murdered in UK the Uk has now as responce deported many Russian diplomats that were in UK.

 

I honestly don't know. First there was the sudden (though I guess in hindsight it would have been predictable) offer of one-on-one talks with Kim Jong Un, then silence (no confirmation or anything) from NK, then Trump decided now was a good time to reshuffle his cabinet, which is going to delay the talks.

 

It's definetly possible that Kim was also worried that Trump might do a pre-emptive strike after the Olympics, but the talks up the stakes and make it more likely for things to go wrong. Now he's putting in Pompeo who is a real hawk on NK and Trump is rumored to be possibly putting in Bolton to replace McMaster as National Security Director, and he's even more of a hawk than Pompeo.

 

So, really, it depends on Trumps mood and the time of day.

 

edit: On Hillary, yeah, she really needs to just disappear from the radar, metaphorically, because she isn't helping anything.

 

 

Kim's offer for talks is strategic move to make it harder for US do pre-emptive strike, because it would look quite badly for US to do strike against NK after they have offered to participate in denuclearization talks, especially China would react quite badly to such strikes in their sphere of influence and they would use them as excuse for either military or economical actions against USA. Also there is quite little to gain, outside of some possible domestic political points,  from strike NK even if they have ICBMs capable to delivering nukes to continental USA and nuclear warheads to arm them with. 

 

So even though Kim seems like nutty leader, he seems to be much better politician than Trump at least in this issue, considering that Trump gave quite additional power for Kim by not just acknowledging his offer but boasting how big deal said offer is. 

 

Here is what I think you go wrong and you are from Finland like me so I don't consider you an super expert, not saying I am super expert but I was curious about USA people thoughts on the matter.

 

China would not attack USA if USA attacks North Korea. There is risk of China envolment of course if whole region erupts into chaos

Japan currently even have a valid more or less military alliance with Australia and that military alliance is pretty much against China.

 

Japan really hates China and Japan has steadily grown as military power in recent years. If China attacks USA we pretty much have a hornet nest World War 3 on horizon.

 

Look I have played Battlefield 3 and was thinking of maybe buying cheaply Battlefield 4 that is USA war against China and Russia.

 

I tell you what if China attacks USA on basis that USA attack Northkorea then Japan and Australia will support USA they hate very much China. China best interest in conflict USA vs NorthKorea is to stay out of the military action.

 

Best response it is pretty much about Trump what he decides also if he decides war there will be war and I don't believe one minute China will declare war on USA if USA attacks NorthKorea and don't accidentally attack China forces.

 

If you realistically want to eperience USA vs China war then you can buy Battlefield 4 computer game.

Edited March 15, 2018 by Terminator

[Malcador]

 

 

Yeah that's the story that prompted me to look her up again. Dayum!

 

Well to each their own, but she's just ok.

 

As for Clinton, yeah, not sure why she can't just retreat to private life and be quiet. You'd think she would go for that, means not dealing with this bull**** all the time or having Trump talk about you, etc.

 

 

While it does appear sexist to tell Clinton (a woman) to retreat to private life and be quiet and it does have a touch of sexism to me, but sometimes it's best to just exit stage left (or right). Especially when she really isn't helping things.

 

 

It's the only thing that keeps her relevant now a days. Plus with our "victimhood is empowering" culture we have, I don't blame her for sticking around. Let her keep talking and maybe the ones who were accusing sexism! for not voting for her will finally get in their heads that she was ****.

 

I'm not accusing sexism, just that it does have the appearance of sexism, but in this case, it really would be best if she stopped talking since it's not helping Democrats.

 

 

Well, not sexist in least as my main reasons were her age (there's better stuff to do with your time left than bother with political garbage) and the fact that her time has passed, in that the climate's changed, there are younger people in the wings, etc., etc. and she's had a very full run, being FLOTUS, Senator and SoS.

[Guard Dog]

If shots are fired Kim will fight like the third monkey on the ramp to Noah's Ark, He has to figure once shooting starts nothing short of regime change will suffice. And he's right. If would be a waste of blood and treasure to fight any conflict that leaves him in power. So unless we're going to go all the way, don't go at all. Better to take the latter option, He can stay in power until he dies for all I care. As long as he stays on his side of the DMZ everything is fine. Now the trick is making HIM understand that.

[injurai]

She was planning to give 4-8 of her life as a "civil servant" I'm not surprised she still has the itch for the limelight. We'll be living with hillary flare ups for a while still.

[Chilloutman]

If shots are fired Kim will fight like the third monkey on the ramp to Noah's Ark, He has to figure once shooting starts nothing short of regime change will suffice. And he's right. If would be a waste of blood and treasure to fight any conflict that leaves him in power. So unless we're going to go all the way, don't go at all. Better to take the latter option, He can stay in power until he dies for all I care. As long as he stays on his side of the DMZ everything is fine. Now the trick is making HIM understand that.

 

Yeah, f*ck those gulaged millions of people as long as they are not dying on my yard

[smjjames]

Exactly, war with the US (either direct or by proxy) is the last thing China wants, both because of economic interconnections and because their navy isn't a threat to ours.

 

They have said that they'd support NK if the US strikes first, but how far they'd go, I'm not sure. They'd definetly demand that the US not get too close to the NK/China border for sure. However, they've also said that if NK strikes first, NK is on their own. A pre-emptive strike seems to be in that grey area between definite first strike in a war and not intending to start a war.

 

 

If shots are fired Kim will fight like the third monkey on the ramp to Noah's Ark, He has to figure once shooting starts nothing short of regime change will suffice. And he's right. If would be a waste of blood and treasure to fight any conflict that leaves him in power. So unless we're going to go all the way, don't go at all. Better to take the latter option, He can stay in power until he dies for all I care. As long as he stays on his side of the DMZ everything is fine. Now the trick is making HIM understand that.

 

I like that analogy actually, heh.

 

Anyways, yeah, that's the problem with doing a pre-emptive strike, and NK doesn't need nukes to do massive damage.

[Terminator]

If shots are fired Kim will fight like the third monkey on the ramp to Noah's Ark, He has to figure once shooting starts nothing short of regime change will suffice. And he's right. If would be a waste of blood and treasure to fight any conflict that leaves him in power. So unless we're going to go all the way, don't go at all. Better to take the latter option, He can stay in power until he dies for all I care. As long as he stays on his side of the DMZ everything is fine. Now the trick is making HIM understand that.

Yes but Northkorea nuclear threat grows every year. North Korea has also shown that if their leader dies then they get a new tyrant on the throne. Even if Kim dies of say old age there will be a successor another tyrant.

 

Yes in fact North Korea rich class the upper class millionaires they really exist they can enjoy luxury even in North Korea. However North Korea realistically will remain a dictatorship even if Kim dies of old age.

Edited March 15, 2018 by Terminator

[Guard Dog]

 

If shots are fired Kim will fight like the third monkey on the ramp to Noah's Ark, He has to figure once shooting starts nothing short of regime change will suffice. And he's right. If would be a waste of blood and treasure to fight any conflict that leaves him in power. So unless we're going to go all the way, don't go at all. Better to take the latter option, He can stay in power until he dies for all I care. As long as he stays on his side of the DMZ everything is fine. Now the trick is making HIM understand that.

 

Yeah, f*ck those gulaged millions of people as long as they are not dying on my yard

 

Then give me a solution that does not end with tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of South Koreans killed in artillery barrages that will likely level Seoul in the 10-12 hours it will take for US air power to silence them. Or, God forbid they actually get a nuclear weapon into play. We are quite safe here despite his boasts but SK & Japan are not.

[Terminator]

 

 

If shots are fired Kim will fight like the third monkey on the ramp to Noah's Ark, He has to figure once shooting starts nothing short of regime change will suffice. And he's right. If would be a waste of blood and treasure to fight any conflict that leaves him in power. So unless we're going to go all the way, don't go at all. Better to take the latter option, He can stay in power until he dies for all I care. As long as he stays on his side of the DMZ everything is fine. Now the trick is making HIM understand that.

 

Yeah, f*ck those gulaged millions of people as long as they are not dying on my yard

 

Then give me a solution that does not end with tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of South Koreans killed in artillery barrages that will likely level Seoul in the 10-12 hours it will take for US air power to silence them. Or, God forbid they actually get a nuclear weapon into play. We are quite safe here despite his boasts but SK & Japan are not.

 

Japan actually have some kind of nuclear defense but yes no nuclear defence is safe or certain defense. Japan would strike NK back and hard and have grown in military power during recent years and Australia has a first military alliance with Japan.

 

Southkorea uhm... they have some forces but are pretty much ****ed if it becomes war that is true unfortunately.

Edited March 15, 2018 by Terminator

[smjjames]

Except that the previous two had cultivated a definite designated heir, there is no sign that Kim Jong Un has done that yet (he's still young, for one). Sure, theres people that can take his place if he suddenly dies now, but if theres no crown prince, if you will, there could end up being a bloody succession fight.

 

That's the problem with dictatorships, without a designated heir, everybody with some power will want to try and take over. Monarchies have a system for designating who is the heir if the leader suddenly dies without a designated heir, dictatorships generally don't.

Edited March 15, 2018 by smjjames

[Chilloutman]

 

 

If shots are fired Kim will fight like the third monkey on the ramp to Noah's Ark, He has to figure once shooting starts nothing short of regime change will suffice. And he's right. If would be a waste of blood and treasure to fight any conflict that leaves him in power. So unless we're going to go all the way, don't go at all. Better to take the latter option, He can stay in power until he dies for all I care. As long as he stays on his side of the DMZ everything is fine. Now the trick is making HIM understand that.

 

Yeah, f*ck those gulaged millions of people as long as they are not dying on my yard

 

Then give me a solution that does not end with tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of South Koreans killed in artillery barrages that will likely level Seoul in the 10-12 hours it will take for US air power to silence them. Or, God forbid they actually get a nuclear weapon into play. We are quite safe here despite his boasts but SK & Japan are not.

 

 

Assassinations and infiltration and heavy propaganda

Edited March 15, 2018 by Chilloutman

[smjjames]

Come on, Kim Jong Un has gotta be like the most secured person on the planet, aside from the POTUS. Plus, with the way that getting intel in NK is so difficult and tracking his movements would be difficult, and there are a billion and one ways that an assassination option would go wrong. Yes, bombing his location is an option, but it's not guaranteed to kill him, and he's going to retreat to his deepest mountain bunker at the first sign of trouble.

 

Sending an assassination team would be a one way suicide mission. Besides, we've disadvowed that practice sine the cold war.

Edited March 15, 2018 by smjjames

[Gfted1]

The current NK "nuclear talks" is the same dog and pony show they are every previous time; a stall tactic.

[Chilloutman]

Come on, Kim Jong Un has gotta be like the most secured person on the planet, aside from the POTUS. Plus, with the way that getting intel in NK is so difficult and tracking his movements would be difficult, and there are a billion and one ways that an assassination option would go wrong. Yes, bombing his location is an option, but it's not guaranteed to kill him, and he's going to retreat to his deepest mountain bunker at the first sign of trouble.

 

doubt it, he is surrounded by people who would gladly stick knife in his back to took over, its just fear holding them. Just put in some cracks in his (Kim's) image and they will tear him apart.

[smjjames]

If doing so were easy, the US would have done that already.

[Malcador]

 

 

 

If shots are fired Kim will fight like the third monkey on the ramp to Noah's Ark, He has to figure once shooting starts nothing short of regime change will suffice. And he's right. If would be a waste of blood and treasure to fight any conflict that leaves him in power. So unless we're going to go all the way, don't go at all. Better to take the latter option, He can stay in power until he dies for all I care. As long as he stays on his side of the DMZ everything is fine. Now the trick is making HIM understand that.

Yeah, f*ck those gulaged millions of people as long as they are not dying on my yard

Then give me a solution that does not end with tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of South Koreans killed in artillery barrages that will likely level Seoul in the 10-12 hours it will take for US air power to silence them. Or, God forbid they actually get a nuclear weapon into play. We are quite safe here despite his boasts but SK & Japan are not.

Assassinations and infiltration and heavy propaganda

The former is going to lead to all out war, though

[smjjames]

 

 

 

 

If shots are fired Kim will fight like the third monkey on the ramp to Noah's Ark, He has to figure once shooting starts nothing short of regime change will suffice. And he's right. If would be a waste of blood and treasure to fight any conflict that leaves him in power. So unless we're going to go all the way, don't go at all. Better to take the latter option, He can stay in power until he dies for all I care. As long as he stays on his side of the DMZ everything is fine. Now the trick is making HIM understand that.

Yeah, f*ck those gulaged millions of people as long as they are not dying on my yard

Then give me a solution that does not end with tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of South Koreans killed in artillery barrages that will likely level Seoul in the 10-12 hours it will take for US air power to silence them. Or, God forbid they actually get a nuclear weapon into play. We are quite safe here despite his boasts but SK & Japan are not.

Assassinations and infiltration and heavy propaganda

The former is going to lead to all out war, though

 

 

If it's done by external forces, definetly, and if it's from internal factions, it could start a civil war between factions.

[HoonDing]

US is of course an expert on infiltration and assassination

 

just look at Bin Laden or teh Yemen operation and what a mess those were

 

they prolly can barely even kill a bug without a nuke

Edited March 15, 2018 by HoonDing

[Chilloutman]

US is of course an expert on infiltration and assassination

 

just look at Bin Laden or teh Yemen operation and what a mess those were

 

Well in NK it can hardly be worse

[Gfted1]

We only hear about the mistakes. /winkywinky

[Malcador]

 

US is of course an expert on infiltration and assassination

 

just look at Bin Laden or teh Yemen operation and what a mess those were

Well in NK it can hardly be worse

But if they make a mess of it, then it's war. Really is the same even if they pull off a series of Silent Assassin kills, anyway.

 

No real military option unless the US comes up with some super blitzkrieg.

[Guard Dog]

 

Assassinations and infiltration and heavy propaganda

 

Let's assume that works. It does down one of two way. Either someone else takes over and we trade one despot for another. Or the country falls apart and it's chaos with side dish of factional civil war. Neither gets the people in the gulag out.

[HoonDing]

Trump will sooner get some VX in the ketchup on his steak