The Political Quinceañera Thread

[Valsuelm]

 

You must not watch many speeches. Funny post though.

I'd ask what makes you come up with such an assumption but I would just be pretending I cared. So for now I'll just agree with you, nodding my head on this side of the screen.

 

 

I didn't bother to watch it, as Trump lost me as someone who will bother to listen to his speeches after his U.N. speech.

 

The bar is very low for good Presidential speeches in the last 10 30+ years, so I can easily see you being correct that it's the best one.

 

The vitriol no doubt is at an all time high this millennium and still climbing, so you're likely right about your observations on the opposition as well.

 

Certainly, no one grinds their teeth quite like Nancy Pelosi. It's comical, until you remember just how truly propped up, paid for, and incompetent she is. Eh... it's still funny, dark times calls for dark humor.

[Malcador]

 

You must not watch many speeches. Funny post though.

I'd ask what makes you come up with such an assumption but I would just be pretending I cared. So for now I'll just agree with you, nodding my head on this side of the screen.

 

Kind of defeats your first sentence when you actually include it in a post, but for one, it's that you mentioned the opposition sitting and pouting. I guess I should have written you haven't watched any in 10 years, rather than many, if you think that notable.

 

As for 'legitimate compassion', that was the second funny bit, but eh, meshback gonna meshback.

 

 

Ward said the officers kept BB guns in their vehicles “in case we accidentally hit somebody or got into a shootout, so we could plant them.” He did not say whether the officers ever planted a BB gun on anyone.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/bs-md-ci-gun-trace-task-force-gttf-testimony-highlights-20180126-story.html

 

Well, pays to be prepared, I guess.

Edited February 1, 2018 by Malcador

[BruceVC]

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2018/01/31/politics/nunes-memo-law-enforcement/index.html

 

Guys this type of misleading misinformation potentially released by some in the GOP should concern all of us....

Like the NSA concerns you?

 

NSA?

 

Not in the slightest, I trust institutions like the NSA, CIA and FBI  on most matters. 

 

This GOP memo is a deliberate attempt to misrepresent information and  the FBI has publicly criticized the GOP move, unusual for them

[Valsuelm]

 

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2018/01/31/politics/nunes-memo-law-enforcement/index.html

 

Guys this type of misleading misinformation potentially released by some in the GOP should concern all of us....

Like the NSA concerns you?

 

NSA?

 

Not in the slightest, I trust institutions like the NSA, CIA and FBI  on most matters. 

 

This GOP memo is a deliberate attempt to misrepresent information and  the FBI has publicly criticized the GOP move, unusual for them

 

 

LOL

[Guard Dog]

 

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2018/01/31/politics/nunes-memo-law-enforcement/index.html

 

Guys this type of misleading misinformation potentially released by some in the GOP should concern all of us....

Like the NSA concerns you?

 

NSA?

 

Not in the slightest, I trust institutions like the NSA, CIA and FBI  on most matters. 

 

This GOP memo is a deliberate attempt to misrepresent information and  the FBI has publicly criticized the GOP move, unusual for them

 

Disagree completely. I have less than zero trust in armed federal agents with unlimited power executing vague warrants granted by secret courts. We are one or two short steps away from having an agency that "makes people disappear". It's come to this because we the people were not vigilant. By supporting things like the Patriot Act, FISA, and the dozen or so other programs that made them what they have become we've climbed the gallows, tied the knot, and handed them the rope. Some folks comfort themselves by thinking the government is only using this power to protect them from "bad guys". But sooner or later might decide the "bad guy" is YOU.

 

I don't know the details of this memo. But there is evidence there were abuses of surveillance and even an attempt to play Kingmaker. I can't think of a single good reason why that should not be exposed if true.

[Guard Dog]

Here is another fine example of government looking out for us. A bill in California will fine servers in restaurants $1k and six months in jail for offering customers a plastic straw.  Do you know anyone working as a waiter or waitress who can afford $1000 fine and six months in the can?

 

http://reason.com/blog/2018/01/25/california-bill-would-criminalize-restau

[HoonDing]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-6OeB01cVs

[redneckdevil]

 

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2018/01/31/politics/nunes-memo-law-enforcement/index.html

 

Guys this type of misleading misinformation potentially released by some in the GOP should concern all of us....

Like the NSA concerns you?

NSA?

 

Not in the slightest, I trust institutions like the NSA, CIA and FBI on most matters.

 

This GOP memo is a deliberate attempt to misrepresent information and the FBI has publicly criticized the GOP move, unusual for them

No the FBI is playing damage control by discrediting before it comes out. Before I would be of the same attitude if it wasn't for Comey and the AG at the time and their actions with the Clinton emails. Meeting with Bill at the airport, Comey saying there's nothing illegal about the emails WITHOUT even looking at them because they were viewed by an outside source from the FBI, Comey changing tune closer to election when Trump actually seemed viable.

Wayyyyy to many red flags the past year with the FBI seemingly being "loyal" to a party when it should be separate from party politics.

I say bring out the memo!

 

Also with Trey Gowdy resigning means that next election, the republicans lost their only candidate I woulda voted for for them.

Edited February 1, 2018 by redneckdevil

[Malcador]

Yep, the FBI is indeed a liberal organization. Given how involved Nunes of all people is in this, I'm somewhat skeptical of how serious this is.

Edited February 1, 2018 by Malcador

[smjjames]

Comey did do a bunch of dumb things, I'd agree with that. As for the memo, it appears that Trump has said outright that he views it as a way to discredit the Mueller investigation, which is a total red flag to me that the memo shouldn't be released. It's pretty damn obvious that they're playing politics with it.

 

Still, like most anybody, I'm dang curious as to what the whole memo is and what they're making a big deal about.

[Bartimaeus]

I mean, the memo itself will probably be worthless, as it's likely to be just a bunch of talking points. The underlying classified info (whom I believe only Schiff and Gowdy have seen...and Gowdy just announced that he was resigning right after the memo was voted to be released) is what's actually of value...but we won't get that (probably for good reasons, but still). Furthermore, we won't even get the Democrats' rebuttal to the GOP talking points, as they voted down the Dems' own memo that was in response. Smells a bit like partisan hackery.

Edited February 1, 2018 by Bartimaeus

[Guard Dog]

Well, the memo will be released tomorrow. It's a funny thing. These are the possibilities as I see it:

 

• The information in the memo is completely true and the FBI was abusing it's position and trying to affect the election. And that is why they are objecting
• The information in the memo is completely true and the FBI was abusing it's position but not tying to affect the election. But they are worried methods and sources may be compromised.
• The memo is not completely true but paints the FBI in a bad light to undermine other investigations that rely on FBI sources and data
• Any of the previous three with the memo being altered to be not completely true
• Any of the first three with the memo being altered to be false
• Everything is the memo was mostly false and it's all just a cynical political attempt to undermine the FBI for stated reasons.

I could easily believe any one of these is the truth. The problem is, every last player in this sad little skit is a goddamed liar without a shred of integrity or credibility. So no matter which of these actually IS true I'll never know and wouldn't believe any one who does know. I can absolutely buy the FBI abusing it's authority to help Hillary. I can absolutely believe the  Republicans are throwing the FBI under the bus for political reasons. I can absolutely believe the whole thing is made up and none of it's true. It's a funny situation really.

[Bartimaeus]

It's funny how the story has changed from, "The FBI helped elect Trump!" (with Comey having a big announcement that they were reopening the Clinton investigation days before the election) to the opposite. Well, regardless, Nunes has apparently been caught editing the memo even further without the consent of the House after the "initial" version was approved. Fortunately for him, that doesn't break any laws - just some Congressional rules (...and it goes without saying that all ethics have been long since thrown out the window, clearly).

Edited February 1, 2018 by Bartimaeus

[Malcador]

Thought the memo was today. Damn slipping release dates

[Zoraptor]

As for the memo, it appears that Trump has said outright that he views it as a way to discredit the Mueller investigation, which is a total red flag to me that the memo shouldn't be released. It's pretty damn obvious that they're playing politics with it.

 

If it discredits the investigation then of course Trump wants it released, but, if the investigation deserves to be discredited then that should not be a consideration in its release. There clearly have been issues with the investigation (people on it getting fired for anti Trump emails etc) and with the intelligence community at large with respect to Trump and they clearly preferred Clinton as a candidate. It's clearly going to be political, but everything is- questioning the accuracy of the memo is political, the investigation and IC leaking like a sieve is political etc etc.

[HoonDing]

IN a few months Trump will start throwing down his dissenters from choppers.

[Guard Dog]

While liars and scoundrels bicker over memos and spying much more interesting things are happening on the other side of the Mall: http://reason.com/blog/2018/02/01/neil-gorsuch-and-samuel-alito-butt-heads

[HoonDing]

 

 

That theory, "essentially as I understand it," Gorsuch said, is "that possession is good title against everybody except for people with superior title."

sounds very Ancien Régime

[SonicMage117]

While liars and scoundrels bicker over memos and spying much more interesting things are happening on the other side of the Mall: http://reason.com/blog/2018/02/01/neil-gorsuch-and-samuel-alito-butt-heads

To be honest, I'm more interested in the memo. I want to see if it's really that big of a deal or if people here are right about it being useless and irrelevant.

[Guard Dog]

 

While liars and scoundrels bicker over memos and spying much more interesting things are happening on the other side of the Mall: http://reason.com/blog/2018/02/01/neil-gorsuch-and-samuel-alito-butt-heads

To be honest, I'm more interested in the memo. I want to see if it's really that big of a deal or if people here are right about it being useless and irrelevant.

 

It's irrelevant. Either everything in it is true. Or everything is a lie. Or it's somewhere in between. The people who swear it's true are all liars. The people who swear it isn't are all liars. The safe thing to do is just assume the worst is true. The FBI did abuse their power, the Democrats want to cover that up, and the Republicans are lying about how much they know about it. 

 

But here is the thing... no matter what that memo says, nothing will come of it. In a week it will be forgotten.

[Agiel]

 

 

While liars and scoundrels bicker over memos and spying much more interesting things are happening on the other side of the Mall: http://reason.com/blog/2018/02/01/neil-gorsuch-and-samuel-alito-butt-heads

To be honest, I'm more interested in the memo. I want to see if it's really that big of a deal or if people here are right about it being useless and irrelevant.

 

It's irrelevant. Either everything in it is true. Or everything is a lie. Or it's somewhere in between. The people who swear it's true are all liars. The people who swear it isn't are all liars. The safe thing to do is just assume the worst is true. The FBI did abuse their power, the Democrats want to cover that up, and the Republicans are lying about how much they know about it. 

 

But here is the thing... no matter what that memo says, nothing will come of it. In a week it will be forgotten.

 

 

I'm not so sanguine about the bolded part. From the White House's perspective in the absolute best case scenario it gives them cover to fire Rosenstein and replace him with someone who will more readily clip Mueller's wings, if not fire him altogether. But at the minimum it feeds into Trump's narrative that it's the "deep state" which is keeping his agenda largely grounded (and not his own perniciousness and incompetence). In that instance GOP congressmen will not feel compelled to act on increasingly dire signs of White House misconduct as long as a perceived stain on the FBI's reputation exists in the eyes of their voters.

Edited February 1, 2018 by Agiel

[SonicMage117]

I hope it will be forgotten soon enough so we can move on but my gut tells me that realistically, it's going to be big for one party or the other. And either republicans will have alot to answer to or the democrats will and if the contents of the memo are changed or somehow mean nothing, I think people will talk about that for at least a couple months. Democrats would attempt to further more turn people against Trump in desperate lashes or Republicans will try more and more to uncover a democratic comspiracy that may or may not even exist. Either way, I think in the end more time will and resources will be spent on the memo but whether that time was spent well or wasted remains to be seen.

[Malcador]

Best outcome would be Nunes being cashiered

[HoonDing]

lock them all up

[smjjames]

Well, the memo will be released tomorrow. It's a funny thing. These are the possibilities as I see it:

 

• The information in the memo is completely true and the FBI was abusing it's position and trying to affect the election. And that is why they are objecting
• The information in the memo is completely true and the FBI was abusing it's position but not tying to affect the election. But they are worried methods and sources may be compromised.
• The memo is not completely true but paints the FBI in a bad light to undermine other investigations that rely on FBI sources and data
• Any of the previous three with the memo being altered to be not completely true
• Any of the first three with the memo being altered to be false
• Everything is the memo was mostly false and it's all just a cynical political attempt to undermine the FBI for stated reasons.

I could easily believe any one of these is the truth. The problem is, every last player in this sad little skit is a goddamed liar without a shred of integrity or credibility. So no matter which of these actually IS true I'll never know and wouldn't believe any one who does know. I can absolutely buy the FBI abusing it's authority to help Hillary. I can absolutely believe the  Republicans are throwing the FBI under the bus for political reasons. I can absolutely believe the whole thing is made up and none of it's true. It's a funny situation really.

 

And on top of all that, the WH is concerned that FBI director Chris Wray may resign in protest if the memo is released. I don't know if he made a direct statement to them saying that he will do so or if they're just thinking to themselves that he might resign in protest. So, whatever is in the memo, the drama is guaranteed to not die down for a while.